What is proof of using a phone while driving?

What is proof of using a phone while driving?

Author
Discussion

Griffith4ever

4,271 posts

35 months

Sunday 25th February
quotequote all
pattieG said:
Aretnap said:
Got your phone out while stopped at traffic lights? I fear you're going to have a hard time defending this one...
It’s not stopped at a traffic light if someone is actively stopping you from leaving though is it.
I got stuck behind a belligerant "peleton" of around 7 or 8 riders today on the North circular so I feel for you. I did nothing, at all, kept a huge distance, but they kept looking back at me, blocking the whole road for a while.

pattieG

Original Poster:

196 posts

149 months

Sunday 25th February
quotequote all
Griffith4ever said:
I got stuck behind a belligerant "peleton" of around 7 or 8 riders today on the North circular so I feel for you. I did nothing, at all, kept a huge distance, but they kept looking back at me, blocking the whole road for a while.
I must not have got the memo when I cycled to work for 10 years because I rode with the assumption that even if I was 100% in the right with any traffic accident I was still a squishy human on a 12kg steel frame.

s p a c e m a n

10,779 posts

148 months

Sunday 25th February
quotequote all
Griffith4ever said:
Saw a vid the other day with a copper explaining how even touching your phone in the Macdonalds drive through to use your app is "illegal".

Edited by Griffith4ever on Sunday 25th February 19:35
You can use a device held in your hand if: you need to call 999 or 112 in an emergency and it's unsafe or impractical to stop. you're safely parked. you're making a contactless payment in a vehicle that is not moving, for example at a drive-through restaurant.

Aretnap

1,663 posts

151 months

Sunday 25th February
quotequote all
s p a c e m a n said:
Griffith4ever said:
Saw a vid the other day with a copper explaining how even touching your phone in the Macdonalds drive through to use your app is "illegal".
You can use a device held in your hand if: you need to call 999 or 112 in an emergency and it's unsafe or impractical to stop. you're safely parked. you're making a contactless payment in a vehicle that is not moving, for example at a drive-through restaurant.
There's an exception for making a contactless payment, but not for fiddling with an app to make an order.

Griffith4ever

4,271 posts

35 months

Sunday 25th February
quotequote all
Aretnap said:
s p a c e m a n said:
Griffith4ever said:
Saw a vid the other day with a copper explaining how even touching your phone in the Macdonalds drive through to use your app is "illegal".
You can use a device held in your hand if: you need to call 999 or 112 in an emergency and it's unsafe or impractical to stop. you're safely parked. you're making a contactless payment in a vehicle that is not moving, for example at a drive-through restaurant.
There's an exception for making a contactless payment, but not for fiddling with an app to make an order.
Yep, and the 1st thing they say in the drive through is, "are you using the app?". It's just stupid on many levels.

NRG1976

978 posts

10 months

Sunday 25th February
quotequote all
pattieG said:
normalbloke said:
Care to give us a bit of background?
Honked at a cyclist in the road riding erratically. Cyclist catches up at traffic lights and is abusive. Takes photo of my number plate and self in passenger seat. Claims I drove into him. The police are reporting me for driving whilst using a phone with his picture of me taking a picture of him as evidence.
You won’t like it but chances are you will get prosecuted for phone use whilst driving. You can argue the toss with the police / magistrate and may or may not have success. There is no black and white here to say you’ll be ok or otherwise, but on the balance of probabilities I suspect it won’t go the way you want.

Heathwood

2,534 posts

202 months

Sunday 25th February
quotequote all
pattieG said:
normalbloke said:
Care to give us a bit of background?
Honked at a cyclist in the road riding erratically. Cyclist catches up at traffic lights and is abusive. Takes photo of my number plate and self in passenger seat. Claims I drove into him. The police are reporting me for driving whilst using a phone with his picture of me taking a picture of him as evidence.
Am I misunderstanding something?

Super Sonic

4,839 posts

54 months

Sunday 25th February
quotequote all
Heathwood said:
pattieG said:
normalbloke said:
Care to give us a bit of background?
Honked at a cyclist in the road riding erratically. Cyclist catches up at traffic lights and is abusive. Takes photo of my number plate and self in passenger seat. Claims I drove into him. The police are reporting me for driving whilst using a phone with his picture of me taking a picture of him as evidence.
Am I misunderstanding something?
Am also wondering about this.

pattieG

Original Poster:

196 posts

149 months

Sunday 25th February
quotequote all
Super Sonic said:
Am also wondering about this.
That should have been “and passenger in seat”



NFT

1,324 posts

22 months

Sunday 25th February
quotequote all
Sympathies Op, Sounds reasonable you were likely gaining evidence/protecting yourself with videoing/photo's, I'm interested to see what Agtlaw and others say about it.

In my own view you can't do much these days, if some one wants to do you, they'll likely succeed, appears to be no discretion, care for the lack of actual risk/recklessness/wrongdoing, consideration for reasonableness in most circumstances, or even if its a deviation from circumstance or goal the questionable lot in Lords/Commons tied to all manner of unsavory things and ineptness may have had in mind.

Hopefully if your stopped, essentially under attack, considering calling for help and collecting evidence, then a solution to prevent the points etc can be found.

Best of luck.

CoolHands

18,652 posts

195 months

Sunday 25th February
quotequote all
NRG1976 said:
pattieG said:
normalbloke said:
Care to give us a bit of background?
Honked at a cyclist in the road riding erratically. Cyclist catches up at traffic lights and is abusive. Takes photo of my number plate and self in passenger seat. Claims I drove into him. The police are reporting me for driving whilst using a phone with his picture of me taking a picture of him as evidence.
You won’t like it but chances are you will get prosecuted for phone use whilst driving. You can argue the toss with the police / magistrate and may or may not have success. There is no black and white here to say you’ll be ok or otherwise, but on the balance of probabilities I suspect it won’t go the way you want.
from the cyclist photo how can they prove he is using his phone? He may have just been holding it up.

NFT

1,324 posts

22 months

Sunday 25th February
quotequote all
CoolHands said:
NRG1976 said:
pattieG said:
normalbloke said:
Care to give us a bit of background?
Honked at a cyclist in the road riding erratically. Cyclist catches up at traffic lights and is abusive. Takes photo of my number plate and self in passenger seat. Claims I drove into him. The police are reporting me for driving whilst using a phone with his picture of me taking a picture of him as evidence.
You won’t like it but chances are you will get prosecuted for phone use whilst driving. You can argue the toss with the police / magistrate and may or may not have success. There is no black and white here to say you’ll be ok or otherwise, but on the balance of probabilities I suspect it won’t go the way you want.
from the cyclist photo how can they prove he is using his phone? He may have just been holding it up.
Holding is likely considered using, people have been done because officers thought they saw them using phone, and when told to check the phone records with telecoms Co, they didn't care as could have been about to make a call or listening to something on it.. That seems to be how it is these days.

Although I do hope to be proven wrong!

CoolHands

18,652 posts

195 months

Sunday 25th February
quotequote all
Should have run the cyclist over. The penalty would likely be lower thumbup

NRG1976

978 posts

10 months

Sunday 25th February
quotequote all
NFT said:
CoolHands said:
NRG1976 said:
pattieG said:
normalbloke said:
Care to give us a bit of background?
Honked at a cyclist in the road riding erratically. Cyclist catches up at traffic lights and is abusive. Takes photo of my number plate and self in passenger seat. Claims I drove into him. The police are reporting me for driving whilst using a phone with his picture of me taking a picture of him as evidence.
You won’t like it but chances are you will get prosecuted for phone use whilst driving. You can argue the toss with the police / magistrate and may or may not have success. There is no black and white here to say you’ll be ok or otherwise, but on the balance of probabilities I suspect it won’t go the way you want.
from the cyclist photo how can they prove he is using his phone? He may have just been holding it up.
Holding is likely considered using, people have been done because officers thought they saw them using phone, and when told to check the phone records with telecoms Co, they didn't care as could have been about to make a call or listening to something on it.. That seems to be how it is these days.

Although I do hope to be proven wrong!
You can’t even touch a phone in a cradle, never mind holding the phone.

CoolHands

18,652 posts

195 months

Sunday 25th February
quotequote all
NRG1976 said:
You can’t even touch a phone in a cradle, never mind holding the phone.
I didn’t know that, I thought the whole point of a cradle was that you can.

Aretnap

1,663 posts

151 months

Sunday 25th February
quotequote all
NFT said:
Holding is likely considered using, people have been done because officers thought they saw them using phone, and when told to check the phone records with telecoms Co, they didn't care as could have been about to make a call or listening to something on it.. That seems to be how it is these days.

Although I do hope to be proven wrong!
Simply holding a phone is not using it - the definition of using is now very broad, but not that broad. It requires using at least one of the phones functions, whether that be an actual voice call, or the camera, or an app, or looking at the internet or whatever.

However people tend not to pick up their phones and point them someone for no reason at all, so the court would be perfectly within its rights to conclude that she was using it, without any specific evidence of exactly what function she was using. The onus would in practice be in the OP to counter the assumption that she was doing something more than merely picking it up, which she would not be able to do without committing perjury given that she was using it to take a photograph.

Aretnap

1,663 posts

151 months

Sunday 25th February
quotequote all
NRG1976 said:
You can’t even touch a phone in a cradle, never mind holding the phone.
Yes you can. The legislation refers to a hand held mobile telephone or other hand held device. If it's in a cradle it's not hand held (obviously).

Pica-Pica

13,804 posts

84 months

Sunday 25th February
quotequote all
CoolHands said:
NRG1976 said:
You can’t even touch a phone in a cradle, never mind holding the phone.
I didn’t know that, I thought the whole point of a cradle was that you can.
You can:
…..
Using devices hands-free
“You can use devices with hands-free access, as long as you do not hold them at any time during usage. Hands-free access means using, for example:

a Bluetooth headset
voice command
a dashboard holder or mat
a windscreen mount
a built-in sat nav
The device must not block your view of the road and traffic ahead.”

Cliftonite

8,410 posts

138 months

Sunday 25th February
quotequote all
NRG1976 said:
You can’t even touch a phone in a cradle, never mind holding the phone.
Not true.


thepritch

537 posts

165 months

Sunday 25th February
quotequote all
CoolHands said:
Should have run the cyclist over. The penalty would likely be lower thumbup
How very nice of you. But you’re right, car drivers do seem to get away with murder.