Crossing an ocean without sails (but with a budget)
Discussion
In my experience bow thrusters are not fantastically powerful; for example on mine if there's a significant crosswind nothing much happens. You may find that with two powerful props spaced well apart at the back that's more effective. Just two levers to work instead of one. I took a trip on HSL102 last year and the way he manouvered it in backwards was remarkable. It's certainly regarded as the 'proper' way to do things.
Badda said:
Interesting! Yes I imagine the distance between the two props should give a decent bit more manoeuvrability but still…
So if you did, it would be on just one hull?
Yes I think so.So if you did, it would be on just one hull?
I have seen some slightly bigger (but much heavier) cruising cats manouvering in marinas and, after chatting, found they were using a single bow thruster.
If noone is watching I can slip us in and out of tight spots like a champ but if eyes are on me ........
Two days later my wife, myself and Dave cast off dock lines and headed out of Denarau marina, this was going to be our first day getting used to the hazards of boating in Fiji. So far we had only encountered one reef, the Navula, and the pass is approx. 500m wide, we were now headed for Musket Cove on Malolo Lailai so had to negotiate a narrow reef passage.
We use Navionics charts on our chart plotter and tablets plus I have Open CPN running as a backup and for satellite images on a laptop, all using the latest (paid) subscriptions.
Marker buoys that are on the charts often aren’t in the water ! Washed away in cyclones, stolen, never there ? I have no idea but it makes navigating tricky passages even trickier.
The next island, Mana, has a very tricky entry that is marked with poles/branches set into the coral reef but more of that later.
On this pic from the plotter basically yellow is land, green reef, white deep water and the darker the shade of blue the shallower the water.
This was all new to us, apart from the odd rock that was marked on the NZ charts you could pretty much go wherever you wanted and in a straight line !
So we enter the passage and there is a ferry coming the other way, a big catamaran doing approx. 25kn vs our 7kn. I held course and was hugging the right of the channel as per our charts, he passed and I steered to port to avoid being pushed off course by his wake.
I watched his track (AIS) on our plotter and saw that he was going over the top of where reef was marked – hmm interesting.
As mentioned before, almost none of the marker buoys on charts are physically there now, maybe two green ones on the way in and a couple of black marker poles when in the bay outside Musket Cove and Plantation Island resorts.
Sonya & Dave were out the front peering down into the clear water hoping to spot any hazards before our hulls found them. We needn’t have worried and threaded our way through without issue, now we don’t bat an eyelid and even arrive in the dark on occasion as we have plenty of tracks in and out of Malolo (see pic) and a number of other islands.
The next issue was anchoring, in the Hauraki Gulf around Auckland and its many islands it is normal to anchor in about 4-6m of water so putting out 25-30m of chain with our 33kg Rocna anchor was plenty most of the time, only increased in strong winds.
Most of the anchorages we have come across in Fiji are around 20m so most of the time we have 70-100m (all we have!) out. I suffer from mechanical sympathy and feel for our Maxwell HRC10 windlass every time the poor thing has to pull up all that chain and anchor, I also know that at some point its just going to refuse to do it – that will be a long day !
The other problem is knowing where everyone elses anchor and chain is, fine if the wind has been blowing in one direction since the first boat anchored but if it has changed direction and boats have turned you don’t have much of an idea.
Fiji is obviously an international cruising ground so, although English is widely spoken, not everyone understands when you call out asking where (direction) their anchor is. We have gone to drop anchor and someone on another boat has called out that they think we will be dropping on top of theirs, my wife was a little aggrieved by this but I thought it was great, better to move now than be pulling up and trying to untangle two lots of chain and anchor. I have seen the damage caused by an angry powerboat owner who picked up four chains and anchors as he sped from a bay (in AKL during Americas Cup) so would rather avoid that.
Anyway, we had been through a passage and anchored out for the first time in Fiji, time to go and have a cocktail at the Island Bar, Musket Cove where the plan for this adventure had first hatched !
We use Navionics charts on our chart plotter and tablets plus I have Open CPN running as a backup and for satellite images on a laptop, all using the latest (paid) subscriptions.
Marker buoys that are on the charts often aren’t in the water ! Washed away in cyclones, stolen, never there ? I have no idea but it makes navigating tricky passages even trickier.
The next island, Mana, has a very tricky entry that is marked with poles/branches set into the coral reef but more of that later.
On this pic from the plotter basically yellow is land, green reef, white deep water and the darker the shade of blue the shallower the water.
This was all new to us, apart from the odd rock that was marked on the NZ charts you could pretty much go wherever you wanted and in a straight line !
So we enter the passage and there is a ferry coming the other way, a big catamaran doing approx. 25kn vs our 7kn. I held course and was hugging the right of the channel as per our charts, he passed and I steered to port to avoid being pushed off course by his wake.
I watched his track (AIS) on our plotter and saw that he was going over the top of where reef was marked – hmm interesting.
As mentioned before, almost none of the marker buoys on charts are physically there now, maybe two green ones on the way in and a couple of black marker poles when in the bay outside Musket Cove and Plantation Island resorts.
Sonya & Dave were out the front peering down into the clear water hoping to spot any hazards before our hulls found them. We needn’t have worried and threaded our way through without issue, now we don’t bat an eyelid and even arrive in the dark on occasion as we have plenty of tracks in and out of Malolo (see pic) and a number of other islands.
The next issue was anchoring, in the Hauraki Gulf around Auckland and its many islands it is normal to anchor in about 4-6m of water so putting out 25-30m of chain with our 33kg Rocna anchor was plenty most of the time, only increased in strong winds.
Most of the anchorages we have come across in Fiji are around 20m so most of the time we have 70-100m (all we have!) out. I suffer from mechanical sympathy and feel for our Maxwell HRC10 windlass every time the poor thing has to pull up all that chain and anchor, I also know that at some point its just going to refuse to do it – that will be a long day !
The other problem is knowing where everyone elses anchor and chain is, fine if the wind has been blowing in one direction since the first boat anchored but if it has changed direction and boats have turned you don’t have much of an idea.
Fiji is obviously an international cruising ground so, although English is widely spoken, not everyone understands when you call out asking where (direction) their anchor is. We have gone to drop anchor and someone on another boat has called out that they think we will be dropping on top of theirs, my wife was a little aggrieved by this but I thought it was great, better to move now than be pulling up and trying to untangle two lots of chain and anchor. I have seen the damage caused by an angry powerboat owner who picked up four chains and anchors as he sped from a bay (in AKL during Americas Cup) so would rather avoid that.
Anyway, we had been through a passage and anchored out for the first time in Fiji, time to go and have a cocktail at the Island Bar, Musket Cove where the plan for this adventure had first hatched !
The next day we left Malolo through a different reef pass and headed towards Mana, we had been warned of the entrance here but were keen to dive straight in especially as we still had a crew member Dave onboard for a few days.
Its only a short hop, just over an hour, which gave me just enough time to get really nervous about entering !
When Mana is first visible through binoculars it looks like you could just motor in a straight line, enter the bay and drop anchor. Unfortunately not as the whole island is surrounded by reef with only the narrow passage to enter.
As previously mentioned, the reef pass here is marked mainly with poles/branches set into the reef but there are red and green marker buoys at the entrance.
We were advised to go in just after low tide so the current through the pass would be slower, for once I took the advice.
With only the odd shout from the deck and waving of arms advising me which direction to steer I got us in , without hitting any of the turtles that were bobbing around either.
We went to a marked anchoring spot and started to drop. Next thing a long boat (local fibreglass boat w/40hp outboard used for fishing, transport, etc) came over with two guys in masks. We were told Mana was a Covid quarantine area and we could not anchor. We asked if we could just stay in the bay and not go ashore , a very strong No !
Out we went through the pass again, oh well at least we had tracks in and out on the chart plotter now.
We went across to a small, uninhabited island and anchored just off it, the three of us then jumped in and went for our first snorkel in Fiji waters.
Now is probably a good time to mention that I cant really swim, I had lessons as a kid and got the certificate but ever since my water activities were hotel or resort pools with swim up bars or wakeboarding/skiing with a PFD (lifevest) on.
Anyway, we were having a great time but the wind had started to build so we hopped back onboard to find a better anchorage. The other side of the island would give us some protection but it was 40m deep so that was a no.
Long story short but each of the next three islands we were chased away by locals on long boats. It turns out that this is where Survivor is filmed and the producers didn’t want boats in the background of any shots. We had heard it was all filmed on one island and should keep away, not from the whole group of islands (Mamanucas).
If you are a viewer it is a scam, they all stay in resorts and are whisked around to be filmed on different islands by long boat - not quite what they would have you believe.
It was now getting dark, about 4pm, and we needed to find somewhere quick as the winds were still building. We found ourselves at Tokoriki and could see the lights of a resort so in 20m of quite choppy water we dropped anchor. Ten minutes later a boat arrived telling us to move on as this was a no anchoring area due to the coral – hmmm, I don’t think so. Words were exchanged and he said we could use the resorts mooring ball overnight, we lifted anchor and motored 200m or so to a 20L plastic drum marking the mooring. It obviously hadn’t been used in a while as the rope was alive with growth. We broke a boat hook trying to lift it there were so many mussels, oysters, etc living on it.
Tied on we could relax, except for the nagging doubt that the rope on the mooring could snap at any time as our 15t pulled on it in the wind.
We all got some sleep and were having a coffee on the back of the boat at 6am when another boat pulled up. A mid thirties white guy sipping from a takeaway coffee cup started shouting that we had to go and what were we doing using the resort mooring ? My wife is a lot more diplomatic than I so she did the talking, he ranted that his GM had been calling him saying guests were complaining that a boat was obscuring their view. Now I know LS isn’t the prettiest vessel on the water but what a load of b
ks. Sonya advised we would be gone in 30 mins but that wasn’t good enough, he wanted us gone now ! I felt it was time for me to join the chat and took the few steps to the side of the boat, Sonya noticed and held out her arm to keep me back. ‘Give us twenty minutes and we will be gone, best we can do’ she said, he nodded and motioned for his driver to take him back to the resort.
We did as we said and started motoring back to the safety of Musket Cove, there we could ask for advice on where was safe to go.
Over the next couple of months we did our best to avoid the area completely, when coming back from an island group fifty miles above we were hugging the outer reef staying as far away from the islands as possible but still we were greeted by angry long boats. I explained that the weather wasn’t great so I would not go outside of the main reef as they were asking but would continue my current course which meant the closest we would be to the island they were filming on was about five miles. Eventually, after asking to speak to the producers who were barking orders at the locals by VHF we were told that was OK.
Just to clarify, I have no issue with the locals who were just doing what they were told but if the producers of Survivor don’t have in their budget the ability to ‘photoshop’ one pixel out of a long shot then they probably shouldn’t be filming. I gather it is a nice earner for the island group but also wonder who gets the bulk of the $$.
We have been back to Mana several times now and are known by the owners of the bar and backpackers (with the blue roof) who are wonderful hosts.
Its only a short hop, just over an hour, which gave me just enough time to get really nervous about entering !
When Mana is first visible through binoculars it looks like you could just motor in a straight line, enter the bay and drop anchor. Unfortunately not as the whole island is surrounded by reef with only the narrow passage to enter.
As previously mentioned, the reef pass here is marked mainly with poles/branches set into the reef but there are red and green marker buoys at the entrance.
We were advised to go in just after low tide so the current through the pass would be slower, for once I took the advice.
With only the odd shout from the deck and waving of arms advising me which direction to steer I got us in , without hitting any of the turtles that were bobbing around either.
We went to a marked anchoring spot and started to drop. Next thing a long boat (local fibreglass boat w/40hp outboard used for fishing, transport, etc) came over with two guys in masks. We were told Mana was a Covid quarantine area and we could not anchor. We asked if we could just stay in the bay and not go ashore , a very strong No !
Out we went through the pass again, oh well at least we had tracks in and out on the chart plotter now.
We went across to a small, uninhabited island and anchored just off it, the three of us then jumped in and went for our first snorkel in Fiji waters.
Now is probably a good time to mention that I cant really swim, I had lessons as a kid and got the certificate but ever since my water activities were hotel or resort pools with swim up bars or wakeboarding/skiing with a PFD (lifevest) on.
Anyway, we were having a great time but the wind had started to build so we hopped back onboard to find a better anchorage. The other side of the island would give us some protection but it was 40m deep so that was a no.
Long story short but each of the next three islands we were chased away by locals on long boats. It turns out that this is where Survivor is filmed and the producers didn’t want boats in the background of any shots. We had heard it was all filmed on one island and should keep away, not from the whole group of islands (Mamanucas).
If you are a viewer it is a scam, they all stay in resorts and are whisked around to be filmed on different islands by long boat - not quite what they would have you believe.
It was now getting dark, about 4pm, and we needed to find somewhere quick as the winds were still building. We found ourselves at Tokoriki and could see the lights of a resort so in 20m of quite choppy water we dropped anchor. Ten minutes later a boat arrived telling us to move on as this was a no anchoring area due to the coral – hmmm, I don’t think so. Words were exchanged and he said we could use the resorts mooring ball overnight, we lifted anchor and motored 200m or so to a 20L plastic drum marking the mooring. It obviously hadn’t been used in a while as the rope was alive with growth. We broke a boat hook trying to lift it there were so many mussels, oysters, etc living on it.
Tied on we could relax, except for the nagging doubt that the rope on the mooring could snap at any time as our 15t pulled on it in the wind.
We all got some sleep and were having a coffee on the back of the boat at 6am when another boat pulled up. A mid thirties white guy sipping from a takeaway coffee cup started shouting that we had to go and what were we doing using the resort mooring ? My wife is a lot more diplomatic than I so she did the talking, he ranted that his GM had been calling him saying guests were complaining that a boat was obscuring their view. Now I know LS isn’t the prettiest vessel on the water but what a load of b
ks. Sonya advised we would be gone in 30 mins but that wasn’t good enough, he wanted us gone now ! I felt it was time for me to join the chat and took the few steps to the side of the boat, Sonya noticed and held out her arm to keep me back. ‘Give us twenty minutes and we will be gone, best we can do’ she said, he nodded and motioned for his driver to take him back to the resort.We did as we said and started motoring back to the safety of Musket Cove, there we could ask for advice on where was safe to go.
Over the next couple of months we did our best to avoid the area completely, when coming back from an island group fifty miles above we were hugging the outer reef staying as far away from the islands as possible but still we were greeted by angry long boats. I explained that the weather wasn’t great so I would not go outside of the main reef as they were asking but would continue my current course which meant the closest we would be to the island they were filming on was about five miles. Eventually, after asking to speak to the producers who were barking orders at the locals by VHF we were told that was OK.
Just to clarify, I have no issue with the locals who were just doing what they were told but if the producers of Survivor don’t have in their budget the ability to ‘photoshop’ one pixel out of a long shot then they probably shouldn’t be filming. I gather it is a nice earner for the island group but also wonder who gets the bulk of the $$.
We have been back to Mana several times now and are known by the owners of the bar and backpackers (with the blue roof) who are wonderful hosts.
WTFWT said:
Have you changed the props from the low drag sailing type (some of them self feather) to a more efficient design better suited for motoring?
They are a std prop, non feathering as far as I am aware.I would just rather slightly larger as there is a small amount of room but where do you stop ?
Maybe if I take a chunk out of one (hope not) they will get replaced but until then our $$ are allocated elsewhere .
Totally understand your motivation for sticking with what you've got from a cost perspective.
Nearly all sailing boats run a 2 blade prop and when you look at the stationary prop from behind you will see large gaps between the blades. This is for low drag under sail when the prop is stopped. If you look at a standard motoring prop it will be 3 blades and, looking straight on, almost all 360 degrees of vision is obscured by fat blades. Some displacement designs will run 4 or 5 blade props. It’s simply about getting as much grip on the water per revolution. You mention going larger in diameter, but actually it’s surface area you want to be considering first. This gives much greater efficiency under power. I would wager your cost to change props would be rapidly offset by your fuel saving given the distances you are covering. You will also have more push in those instances when you need to get a shift on and finally would notice much greater response at low speed so docking and close quarter control becomes easier.
Have a think about it. Make sure to go for aluminium props as they are sacrificial and won't transmit strikes to your drivetrain like a steel prop does. Important when you're operating in the shallows as much as you are. What an adventure you're on!
Nearly all sailing boats run a 2 blade prop and when you look at the stationary prop from behind you will see large gaps between the blades. This is for low drag under sail when the prop is stopped. If you look at a standard motoring prop it will be 3 blades and, looking straight on, almost all 360 degrees of vision is obscured by fat blades. Some displacement designs will run 4 or 5 blade props. It’s simply about getting as much grip on the water per revolution. You mention going larger in diameter, but actually it’s surface area you want to be considering first. This gives much greater efficiency under power. I would wager your cost to change props would be rapidly offset by your fuel saving given the distances you are covering. You will also have more push in those instances when you need to get a shift on and finally would notice much greater response at low speed so docking and close quarter control becomes easier.
Have a think about it. Make sure to go for aluminium props as they are sacrificial and won't transmit strikes to your drivetrain like a steel prop does. Important when you're operating in the shallows as much as you are. What an adventure you're on!
Edited by WTFWT on Thursday 22 December 14:11
AndrewCrown said:
NNK loving this thread... Tremendous detail...
We're in the planning phase of a UK to Greece to Bordeaux we too have decided to use a Motor Yacht
Similar considerations...
Awesome !We're in the planning phase of a UK to Greece to Bordeaux we too have decided to use a Motor Yacht
Similar considerations...
I hope you have as wonderful time as we are. Its been an amazing mix of learning and fun so far.
Fishing !
I had never fished before buyng LS, often invited out but always declined as I had other hobbies (cars, bikes, wakeboarding, hunting, etc) that didnt get enough time spent .
After a few weekends in Auckland I knew that standing there with a rod over the side attempting to pull up a snapper of legal size was not for me so left the fishing to my wife and any guests.
However, I liked the idea of game fishing so when we left I bought myself a second hand rod & reel that I thought would be up to the task. Also Dave (crew) arrived onboard with a rod which he very kindly gifted us when he flew back to NZ.
It has now become a passion and the 30 series reel on the rod I bought has been replaced with a whopper of a Tica 80.
The gifted rod/reel combo went in for a service last month but instead I walked out with a new Shimano combo (TLD50LRS).
Free food almost everywhere we go !
The fishing on the East is far superior as there are no resorts, less people, etc. On one occasion I hadnt even made it to the other side of the boat to put second lure in when the reel screamed and a big mahimahi had thrown itself on to the hook.
I use a rapala diving stick lure (wahoo, waloo, Spanish mackerel) one side and a skirted, squid type on the other (mahimahi, tuna, marlin).
My wife and I have quite a good system going now, reel screams I go out to rods while she takes over the controls.
If its safe to do so (no reefs around) she will come down when the fish is close and either gaff it or hang on to the rod while I gaff it and bring it on.
Luckily we have salt and fresh water hoses at rear as it generally looks like a crime scene after I've killed/ bled our victim.
Kokoda (raw fish soaked in lime juice then coconut cream) is normally the first dish, then crumbed and fried and the rest goes in the freezer . We do eat a lot of fish curry onboard so there is always a bag or two of smaller chunks in the fridge or freezer.
I have hooked a marlin once, a 45 min battle before its last leap about 15m from boat and spat out the lure.
Although disappointed at the time looking back I'm pleased now that it did as there was no way my wife and I would have been able to get it onboard, it was def as big as me !
I had never fished before buyng LS, often invited out but always declined as I had other hobbies (cars, bikes, wakeboarding, hunting, etc) that didnt get enough time spent .
After a few weekends in Auckland I knew that standing there with a rod over the side attempting to pull up a snapper of legal size was not for me so left the fishing to my wife and any guests.
However, I liked the idea of game fishing so when we left I bought myself a second hand rod & reel that I thought would be up to the task. Also Dave (crew) arrived onboard with a rod which he very kindly gifted us when he flew back to NZ.
It has now become a passion and the 30 series reel on the rod I bought has been replaced with a whopper of a Tica 80.
The gifted rod/reel combo went in for a service last month but instead I walked out with a new Shimano combo (TLD50LRS).
Free food almost everywhere we go !
The fishing on the East is far superior as there are no resorts, less people, etc. On one occasion I hadnt even made it to the other side of the boat to put second lure in when the reel screamed and a big mahimahi had thrown itself on to the hook.
I use a rapala diving stick lure (wahoo, waloo, Spanish mackerel) one side and a skirted, squid type on the other (mahimahi, tuna, marlin).
My wife and I have quite a good system going now, reel screams I go out to rods while she takes over the controls.
If its safe to do so (no reefs around) she will come down when the fish is close and either gaff it or hang on to the rod while I gaff it and bring it on.
Luckily we have salt and fresh water hoses at rear as it generally looks like a crime scene after I've killed/ bled our victim.
Kokoda (raw fish soaked in lime juice then coconut cream) is normally the first dish, then crumbed and fried and the rest goes in the freezer . We do eat a lot of fish curry onboard so there is always a bag or two of smaller chunks in the fridge or freezer.
I have hooked a marlin once, a 45 min battle before its last leap about 15m from boat and spat out the lure.
Although disappointed at the time looking back I'm pleased now that it did as there was no way my wife and I would have been able to get it onboard, it was def as big as me !
|https://thumbsnap.com/Nxz1eUEE[/url]
AndrewCrown said:
Those fish are monsters
I havent even mastered the art of holding them to look bigger !I cant find the pics of the biggest mahimahi or wahoo I've caught, prob on wifes phone.
A guesstimate puts biggest wahoo at about 35kg, it was about 1.6m long.
One side went into a curry for 22 people plus some in the freezer and the other went on the bbq at the Island Bar and fed lots of people !
Caught a couple of big barracuda too, gave them away to the locals who were pretty happy.
Edited by NNK on Saturday 24th December 02:06
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