One for the Dinghy Sailors

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weatherboard

Original Poster:

112 posts

269 months

Wednesday 27th June 2007
quotequote all
Any recommendations for sail makers?

My Enterprise sails (1961!) are ahem slightly past there best and I need to get some new ones, but need to modify them with reefing points which I currrently dont have.

So any personal experience with decent sail makers?

By the way south coast based so preferably not wanting to travel to far.

Jon
Enterprise 3306

Snoggledog

7,130 posts

218 months

Wednesday 27th June 2007
quotequote all
Ok South Coast..

Ratsey & Lapthorn are probably the best bet.
Batt Sails can usually modify stuff
Banks Sails will cost an arm and a leg but they should be able to help.

Failing that drop a "Wanted" on the Yachts & Yachting website and see if you can get something that way.

Alternatively... Would wayfarer sails fit? They tend to have reefing points. If memory serves they have close to the same mast hight and boom length.

sawman

4,920 posts

231 months

Wednesday 27th June 2007
quotequote all
Enterprise sails are pretty readily available, all the major sail lofts will make them, but you might struggle to find sails with reefing points. for stndard sails I'd give speed sails a ring, they would probably courier them so no need to travel. Are you still with a wooden rig or do you have metal?

You could also speak to Jeckylls in Wroxham, norfolk (fraid you'll have to look up their number) they have good experience of wooden masts and can probably remember how to do reefing points as theres a lot of call for traditional sails in norfolk.

hth

s

ferlin

357 posts

240 months

Friday 29th June 2007
quotequote all
Jeckells of Norfolk will certainly be able to sort you out as Enterprises are very popular on the Broads
http://www.jeckells.co.uk/

thewave

14,710 posts

210 months

Friday 29th June 2007
quotequote all
ferlin said:
Jeckells of Norfolk will certainly be able to sort you out as Enterprises are very popular on the Broads
http://www.jeckells.co.uk/
yes Seconded


weatherboard

Original Poster:

112 posts

269 months

Friday 29th June 2007
quotequote all
Thanks chaps will give Jeckylls a call and see what they can do - the rig is ali as far too much painting and varnishing will be needed come the end of the season.

I shall post some pictures of Nell in the not to distant.

Cheers

Jon

sawman

4,920 posts

231 months

Friday 29th June 2007
quotequote all
If you can tell them what make and model your mast is (ie proctor d+ or whatever), jeckylls can probably make sails to standard measurements they already hold, if you have an unusual mast they may ask you to measure your typical mast bend. I had to do this when they made some for my ent years ago I think it was a holmspar mast - they hadnt seen one before! they were great sails and good price it i remember correctly

ClaphamGT3

11,323 posts

244 months

Saturday 30th June 2007
quotequote all
thewave said:
ferlin said:
Jeckells of Norfolk will certainly be able to sort you out as Enterprises are very popular on the Broads
http://www.jeckells.co.uk/
yes Seconded
3rded - a reliable, unpretentious and affordable loft

iamlofi

2,196 posts

205 months

Thursday 5th July 2007
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We used to have a North Sales, Enterprise sail.

Paied about 450 for main sail a few years ago now not much to compaire with as the other set we had were from the dark ages!!

MattYorke

3,776 posts

254 months

Friday 6th July 2007
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The enterprise is hardly an over-powered boat - are you sure you really need reefing points?

V8

110 posts

217 months

Sunday 8th July 2007
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I've always reefed around the boom. You have to put a piece of strapping in the roll to attach the kicker, but always worked for me.

tank slapper

7,949 posts

284 months

Monday 9th July 2007
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MattYorke said:
The enterprise is hardly an over-powered boat - are you sure you really need reefing points?
Reefing is necessary if you want to sail when it is fairly windy. The full rig will overpower the rudder with enough wind, though my dad had a bigger rudder made that meant it could carry the full sail for longer.

Nic Jones

7,066 posts

221 months

Tuesday 10th July 2007
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Shirley you just ease the main?

It is really easy to stall the rudder on the RS200 when it's windy due to the large roach on the mainsail and then you broach, no opportunity to reef it so to try and stop it happening we pull loads of downhaul on when it's howling and ease the main which allows the top of the sail to flap away on its own while the lower section pulls forwards and the foils work again.

tank slapper

7,949 posts

284 months

Tuesday 10th July 2007
quotequote all
From memory, easing the main just resulted in a poorly trimmed sail which was ok downwind, but crap for pointing. We don't have the boat any more so I can't experiment. It was quite an old boat and didn't have many of the tuning adjustments that are on modern examples.

Mahatma Bag

27,427 posts

280 months

Tuesday 10th July 2007
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Surely the obvious answer is to hike like a bandit.
If you can hike off your toes with straight legs you can keep the boat flat and keep pointing high. In a gust, dump main hike flat and trim in again. Takes a fair bit of strength but gotta be better than reefing points.

tank slapper

7,949 posts

284 months

Tuesday 10th July 2007
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Maybe. It is too much like hard work though, which is why I now mainly sail on a yacht, where I can make tea and bacon sandwiches. biggrin

Schmalex

13,616 posts

207 months

Tuesday 10th July 2007
quotequote all
There is absolutely no reason to reef. I regularly sail race boats in up to 37 / 38kts across the deck without reefing.

To de-power the boat upwind, do the following:

1: Drop the rig backwards slightly (on a dinghy, you have no backstay obviously so you will need to do this on the shore before going out. Just move the shrouds down a couple of pins).

2: Either move the jib car backwards on its track, or ease the barber hauler (or both). This will open the leach of the jib & allow you to flatten the sail

3: Get as much outhall & cunningham on as you can & pin the leach of the main as hard as you can using the kicker to flatten the main. Get as much kicker on as you can & then more. Then, you can control the power by easing or bringing on the mainsheet as required.

4: Hike hard & then harder still

5: In big gusts, "feather" the boat (come up slightly to get the inside telltales on the jib fluttering a bit instead of streaming at 30% perfectly)

6: Weave your way through the waves. Go up a couple of degrees as you head up the face & down again as you go down the back-side. This will stop you from slamming & then having to get the boat back up to speed after a slam.

By opening the leach of the jib & pinning the leach of the main, you are flattening your sales & de-powering the boat. You will still get good height upwind if you can keep the rearmost 12 inches of the main driving (ie, the rest of the sail is flogging / backing apart from a 12" strip running down the leach from head to clew). If you have telltales down the leach of the main, aim to get the top one stalling about 70% - 80% of the time.

This is the fastest way of sailing pretty much any boat upwind in a breeze.

Just before you get to the top mark, don't forget to ease an inch or so of kicker and a bit of outhall & cunningham. A dead flat main is not quick downwind + you could end up snapping the boom on the bear away!!

Snoggledog

7,130 posts

218 months

Wednesday 11th July 2007
quotequote all
Schmalex said:
Get as much kicker on as you can & then more. Then, you can control the power by easing or bringing on the mainsheet as required.

Just before you get to the top mark, don't forget to ease an inch or so of kicker and a bit of outhall & cunningham. A dead flat main is not quick downwind + you could end up snapping the boom on the bear away!!
nono Kicker off upwind in a blow as this will allow the top to 'open' and spill. Then kicker back on downwind to avoid the boom from lifting.

I've tried both methods (tight in upwind and slightly loose downwind. And slack upwind and slightly loose downwind.) The easiest to control upwind is a slack kicker as any gusts just get spilled out of the top of the sail.

I can see this one getting into an argument.

rustyspit

462 posts

205 months

Wednesday 11th July 2007
quotequote all
Snoggledog said:
Schmalex said:
Get as much kicker on as you can & then more. Then, you can control the power by easing or bringing on the mainsheet as required.

Just before you get to the top mark, don't forget to ease an inch or so of kicker and a bit of outhall & cunningham. A dead flat main is not quick downwind + you could end up snapping the boom on the bear away!!
nono Kicker off upwind in a blow as this will allow the top to 'open' and spill. Then kicker back on downwind to avoid the boom from lifting.

I've tried both methods (tight in upwind and slightly loose downwind. And slack upwind and slightly loose downwind.) The easiest to control upwind is a slack kicker as any gusts just get spilled out of the top of the sail.

I can see this one getting into an argument.
A loose kicker upwind is fine up to the point where you are having to ease the mainsheet to dump some power, but having a loose kicker upwind in a breeze isn't a good idea at all IMHO. Plenty of kicker will bend the mast and flatten the sail, reducing power and drag and helping you to control the rig. I haven't got much experience of Ent rigs, but with most boats if you pull on plenty of cunningham together with the kicker it will flatten and twist off the top 1/3-ish of the sail to give you the spilling effect that you described, but without allowing the boom to lift and turn the sail into a flappy bag.


Snoggledog

7,130 posts

218 months

Wednesday 11th July 2007
quotequote all
rustyspit said:
A loose kicker upwind is fine up to the point where you are having to ease the mainsheet to dump some power, but having a loose kicker upwind in a breeze isn't a good idea at all IMHO. Plenty of kicker will bend the mast and flatten the sail, reducing power and drag and helping you to control the rig. I haven't got much experience of Ent rigs, but with most boats if you pull on plenty of cunningham together with the kicker it will flatten and twist off the top 1/3-ish of the sail to give you the spilling effect that you described, but without allowing the boom to lift and turn the sail into a flappy bag.
Works well enough on my int 14.
ETA. I agree with plenty of cunningham. The more the better in a breeze.

Edited by Snoggledog on Wednesday 11th July 11:18