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V8covin
275 posts
62 months
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I applaud what he's doing but at the end of the day I wouldn't deposit my cash with him because there's no safety net if it all goes tits up which is why he needs the backing of the FSA
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garyhun
13,991 posts
97 months
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V8covin said: I applaud what he's doing but at the end of the day I wouldn't deposit my cash with him because there's no safety net if it all goes tits up which is why he needs the backing of the FSA Actually there is. All deposits are backed by his business if I'm not mistaken.
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Munter
23,696 posts
110 months
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AyBee said: Because Dave is doing the picking and Dave cannot manage to see a million people to lend to in a year! I don't think Dave has a unique ability. It should be possible for others to do the role as well. They used to be called Bank Managers and had worked their way up to the position. They were not 22year olds who's previous job was selling shoes.
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garyhun
13,991 posts
97 months
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Munter said: I don't think Dave has a unique ability. It should be possible for others to do the role as well. They used to be called Bank Managers and had worked their way up to the position. They were not 22year olds who's previous job was selling shoes.  unfortunately they were replaced with computers that say "no" 
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V8covin
275 posts
62 months
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garyhun said: Actually there is. All deposits are backed by his business if I'm not mistaken. And what if his business goes down the pan ? Or he turns out to be less than scrupulous ? Just because someone runs a business and drives a Ferrari and has a helicopter doesn't necessarily mean they actually have any money .....he's probably a very decent human being with a sackload of dosh but who knows !
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Tuna
4,512 posts
153 months
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V8covin said: garyhun said: Actually there is. All deposits are backed by his business if I'm not mistaken. And what if his business goes down the pan ? Or he turns out to be less than scrupulous ? Just because someone runs a business and drives a Ferrari and has a helicopter doesn't necessarily mean they actually have any money .....he's probably a very decent human being with a sackload of dosh but who knows ! I thought the point was he was covered by an insurance policy, so his deposits were covered by that?
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c123
163 posts
18 months
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You could tell he worked in the motor trade. Going all round the country on trade plates?!
Enjoyed it but wasn’t sure why there was a second program TBH felt like a lot of filler in last night. The whole mobile bank, Vegas/New York, scrap gold bits were TV fluff that now seem obligatory in these ‘campaigning’ documentaries.
Never the less Dave seems like a top bloke and if he really prefers a Transit to a Ferrari I could, begrudgingly, take it off his hands.
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V8covin
275 posts
62 months
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Tuna said: I thought the point was he was covered by an insurance policy, so his deposits were covered by that? No mention of insurance on his website...unless it was buried somewhere....but this is what it does say "All your money is fully guaranteed, because if the borrower defaults on their finance agreement, there is a 100% guarantee from Mr David Fishwick in relation to this element of the loan."
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Tuna
4,512 posts
153 months
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V8covin said: No mention of insurance on his website...unless it was buried somewhere....but this is what it does say I can't remember the exact details, but the programme implied you can't legally run a Savings and Loans type operation without insurance. He had to get the relevant pieces of documentation in place before he could take deposits of any sort.
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72EuropaTC
206 posts
76 months
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Blackpuddin said: FSA should be forced to watch this and then hide their faces in shame. Banking at the local level is not difficult, Dave has proved that. Banks have totally forgotten the part they can, and should, be playing in local society, because they are no longer local entities. They are multinational corporations which have a physical presence in towns, but no moral or philosophical presence there. Maybe they have ... www.cityam.com/latest-news/fsa-bid-create-rivals-o... (from today's City A.M paper) Maybe Cable's boys & girls in the office did have words in the FSA's ears. IF between them the FSA and the FOS actually had the ability and the b*lls to police things effectively, then maybe we'd see real change. Just don't hold your breath.
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72EuropaTC
206 posts
76 months
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Munter said: They used to be called Bank Managers and had worked their way up to the position. ^^^ This ^^^ And they also "knew" many of their customers - ok, more so the business customers than the personal ones - so over the years they built up a working, practical knowledge of their customers' business, markets and the local/regional area which provided a them with a lot of insight to help them make their decisions. If the bank manager said "no" then you took it on the chin.
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Transmitter Man
2,533 posts
93 months
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Seems like a nice bloke.
I'll wait till he comes to SW3 and take a punt.
Better than 2.25% with Nat West.
Phil
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crmcatee
3,952 posts
96 months
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Already dropped him a note asking if he's taking deposits from outside East Lancs...
I like knowing it's helping folks.
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MadMullah
4,614 posts
62 months
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Tuna said: V8covin said: No mention of insurance on his website...unless it was buried somewhere....but this is what it does say I can't remember the exact details, but the programme implied you can't legally run a Savings and Loans type operation without insurance. He had to get the relevant pieces of documentation in place before he could take deposits of any sort. I'm sure it is covered by insurance there was that segment on the show with the four certificates this one allows me to take money this one lets me lend out money cant remember the third one and then he said its all covered by this certificate of insurance. http://www.channel4.com/programmes/bank-of-dave/4o...
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swerni
19,867 posts
79 months
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Munter said: Justin Cyder said: Besides, what's to stop him repeating the formula. A branch of Dave in each town, each one with a manager who can't lend until he's been out laid eyes, shook hands & made a judgement?  Franchise...? Would you take on a franchise that is designed to make 0 profit? The business clearly isn't scalable and I question the long term default rate. However. What a brilliant guy! He has set out to prove a point and has absolutely nailed it. You can see why he's done so well for himself.
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Justin Cyder
6,127 posts
18 months
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swerni said: Would you take on a franchise that is designed to make 0 profit?
The business clearly isn't scalable and I question the long term default rate. There is that thorny problem. Whilst the idea would be easily repeated from town to town, it would be different gravy finding someone sufficiently altruistic to run it. Dave Fishwick at least has his (presumed) wealth to fall back on. I guess the other choice would be to use profit to pay someone smart handsomely, but then by creating a well paid banker, you're right back at the heart of the original complaint D.F. was setting out to remedy in the first place, Philosophically at least if not entirely comparable to your average Credit default swapping master of the universe.
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Blackpuddin
4,788 posts
74 months
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I hope Dave puts his experience into the public domain so that other Daves can replicate the venture in their own towns. As others have said, there is no need for one bank to 'scale up' and go on to become a normal, disinterested national/global chain bank. It would be totally counter-productive. Each town should have its own bank, owned by a local person and run on Dave lines, ie on a very personal level. 'Scaling up' is just another rubbish aspect of modern life that we really need to turn away from. Just because we CAN do something doesn't mean that we SHOULD do it. Car companies have been making this mistake for the last two decades, filling cars with electronic 'features' of dubious or no value, but which are expensive enough to write off a car when they fail.
Normal banks have given too much signoff power to lower level employees. I believe there should be a strict and draconian cap on the size of individual transactions to stop the massively deleterious effect that 'deals gone bad' have on wider society.
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Tuna
4,512 posts
153 months
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swerni said: Would you take on a franchise that is designed to make 0 profit?
The business clearly isn't scalable and I question the long term default rate. 'Anonymous' internet lenders like Zopa manage to get 1% or so so I don't see how his business should be much worse. The scaling is the problem. I'm not sure who was getting paid for their time, and who was doing it out of the kindness of their hearts. Clearly it can scale, or banking in general wouldn't be possible - but he was at the smallest end of the market where margins don't add up so quickly. How big do you have to be to survive?
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swerni
19,867 posts
79 months
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Tuna said: swerni said: Would you take on a franchise that is designed to make 0 profit?
The business clearly isn't scalable and I question the long term default rate. 'Anonymous' internet lenders like Zopa manage to get 1% or so so I don't see how his business should be much worse. The scaling is the problem. I'm not sure who was getting paid for their time, and who was doing it out of the kindness of their hearts. Clearly it can scale, or banking in general wouldn't be possible - but he was at the smallest end of the market where margins don't add up so quickly. How big do you have to be to survive? I dont remember seeing but who paid for the premises and th mini bus? I bet Dave did. Internet lending with limited overheads and a huge potential market vs a bricks and motor very local business, it doesn't. Compare. As i said in my first post. I think he is brilliant, but I think the bank of Dave wouldn't exist without Dave. He has also personally guaranteed all the investors, can't see others taking on that risk. It's a great excersize to prove a point, not a business.
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Tuna
4,512 posts
153 months
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swerni said: Internet lending with limited overheads and a huge potential market vs a bricks and motor very local business, it doesn't. Compare. I wasn't comparing the internet scalability with Bank of Dave type operations except for the default rate, which is low in both cases - which was the issue your raised. Given he's running an operation where he can go and visit the person he's loaning to, there's no reason for his default rates to be unmanageable. But.. since you suggested comparing: for small business loans, where would you go - an anonymous website where computer (quite likely) says no, or your local bank where your mate got a good deal and likes the bloke who runs it? Of course, an internet operation can scale 'instantly' and 'cheaply', but we all know the risks inherent in that, and that the challenge remains getting customers to your virtual doorstep in the first place. Both have their place, and in the case of small loans, I bet the audience tends more towards word of mouth and face to face contact than browsing the internet.
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