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andymadmak

6,231 posts

139 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
crankedup said:
andymadmak said:
crankedup said:
Link as requested :

www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/mar/14/osborne-au...

Its an old link, the numbers have since climbed, the general situation in the economy worsened since.
So 270k + public sector jobs gone, but unemployment is falling.... Hmmm, maybe the private sector is taking up the slack (or at least a good chunk of it) after all.
There's still nearly 6 million public sector workers though. 6 million! I know we have a few hundred thousand teachers, policemen, firemen, armed forces etc, plus maybe 1.5 million in the NHS, Call it 2.5 million overall. Hell lets even chuck in a few dustbinmen,(although much of this is private now, yes?) social workers and assume there are other important jobs I have forgotten or underestimated and round it all up to 3.5 million. What on earth do the other 2.5 million do for us?
As I have mentioned already, stats do not show the complete story. However, I am not debating the worth or value that Public services offer, at least not just yet. Its about the Governments mishandling of our economy that bothers me, together with their almost complete lack of reality outside of London.
You keep saing this, but you propose no alternatives, aside from the labour policy of spend spend spend, tax tax tax, borrow borrow borrow

You keep urging that "something must be done" or saying that the government is getting it wrong with the economy, whilst at the same time refusing to recognise that the options available are extremely limited, largely because of the previous lot and their lottery winner approach to economic management.
When the govt do do something, ( such as acting as guarantor for projects, rather than borrowing and increasing debt) you bizarrely claim that they are now following your advice!
Suddenly now, asking why we have so much waste in the public sector is not for debate, even though reducing that waste would liberate funds for your spend spend spend ( no doubt you would use the labour term "investment" ) policy is not allowed either.
Face it Cranky old fruit, you don't really want this govt to find a solution at all. You just want Mr Balls leading the treasury!

andymadmak

6,231 posts

139 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
crankedup said:
davepoth said:
bobbylondonuk said:
now you see the scale of the employment that must be transferred from public sector to private sector? Unemployment levels remaining static is not a bad indicator when you have falling public spending. It means the loss of jobs in public sector is being offset by private sector job creation. Same applies to GDP figures.

So when the BBC goes crying and wailing at a 0.5% drop in GDP or a static unemployment figure...it is not actually doom and gloom when you look at it from a management of 60million people and 700-800bn budget!
Indeed. Static unemployment when tens of thousands are being made redundant and shifted from incapacity into unemployment is actually a major success.
If only it were true! Still if it makes you feel good then carry on, believe those stats. Problem becomes more clear when we see the real unemployment (forget numbers) and the effects it is causing to communities up and down the length of U.K. I do not see zero hours and part time work as a success to be proud about. Its falling living standards that are the true measure of our economy. The BBC are doing a great job in reporting a more accurate picture of our economy, unless you prefer the lies of Politicians and manipulation of statistics.
Oh, so now that the stats don't support your side, you no longer want to believe them. Wow And the BBC accurately reporting? rofl

SpeedMattersNot

2,640 posts

65 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
Nearly the whole world are in recession - it's not all because of Labour that we're all in financial difficulty lol.

andymadmak

6,231 posts

139 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
SpeedMattersNot said:
It's a Conservative wet-dream to picture me going out at 2am, to buy an upper school's music supplies with my private sector money, because my public sector wife a) hasn't the budget and b) can't afford them.

...and expectations of students is till higher than ever, are they not?

This must be complete and utter success in the governments eyes. Spending is down, profits are up, teachers and students suffering, including their households...everyone's a winner? Right?
Mmm. Except spending is actually up, profits are down mostly and as for teachers suffering? Perleeease! My sons physics teacher managed a 48% attendance rate at lessons last year. The rest of the time she spent in the staffroom on her Facebook page. And before you dismiss this, it's true.

andymadmak

6,231 posts

139 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
SpeedMattersNot said:
Nearly the whole world are in recession - it's not all because of Labour that we're all in financial difficulty lol.
True, but it is the labour partys fault that we were amongstthe first into recession, went into it deeper than most, and are amongst the last out of it. Its also their fault that we had the least in the kitty ( for that read huge unsustainable debt, and deficit) to help ride it out when times got tough.
Besides, I thought Labours view was that it was all the bankers fault in London. Going a little off message arent you?
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vonuber

3,905 posts

34 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
Unsurprisingly due to public sector cuts, consultation times with local authorities/government bodies (for private sector projects) have increased massively, leading to long delays due to a shortage of staff.

Still, let's increase the cuts eh.

andymadmak

6,231 posts

139 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
vonuber said:
Unsurprisingly due to public sector cuts, consultation times with local authorities/government bodies (for private sector projects) have increased massively, leading to long delays due to a shortage of staff.

Still, let's increase the cuts eh.
Evidence please?

And what cuts? Spending is still going up!

vonuber

3,905 posts

34 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
andymadmak said:
Evidence please?

And what cuts? Spending is still going up!
Evidence? Try contacting the EA or LA to get approval for construction schemes; compare the time it has previously taken and compare it to the time taken now, using your experience of about 11 years of doing this.
Spending may be going up, but staff have certainly been laid off.

andymadmak

6,231 posts

139 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
vonuber said:
andymadmak said:
Evidence please?

And what cuts? Spending is still going up!
Evidence? Try contacting the EA or LA to get approval for construction schemes; compare the time it has previously taken and compare it to the time taken now, using your experience of about 11 years of doing this.
Spending may be going up, but staff have certainly been laid off.
All over the country? Just in your patch? Stats? Not saying you're wrong, its just that whenever someone says something even mildly to the support of the Govt the leftys on here dismiss it unless it can be proven with stats that have been endorsed by the Guardian or the BBC. hehe
So where do you think the extra money is going. It isnt on unemployment benefit, cos that number is falling...... Maybe its paying for those extra 2.5 million public servants that we still dont seem to be able to work out what they actually do!

SpeedMattersNot

2,640 posts

65 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
andymadmak said:
SpeedMattersNot said:
It's a Conservative wet-dream to picture me going out at 2am, to buy an upper school's music supplies with my private sector money, because my public sector wife a) hasn't the budget and b) can't afford them.

...and expectations of students is till higher than ever, are they not?

This must be complete and utter success in the governments eyes. Spending is down, profits are up, teachers and students suffering, including their households...everyone's a winner? Right?
Mmm. Except spending is actually up, profits are down mostly and as for teachers suffering? Perleeease! My sons physics teacher managed a 48% attendance rate at lessons last year. The rest of the time she spent in the staffroom on her Facebook page. And before you dismiss this, it's true.
I actually find that quite offensive, to suggest teachers arn't suffering with cuts. Perhaps, your physics teacher has plenty of funding. What group is your son in...? You don't tend to suffer 48% attendance rates in the higher/brighter sets?

Perhaps your sons teacher, doesn't care enough for her job, because she can't afford the text-books, or the props, or has the equipment to enthuse her students the way teachers should? Have you not considered this?

Spending won't actually go down as a) it's a slow process and b) the population is increasing. Just look at Bicester up the road from where I am...3 new schools are to be built in the next 6-7years. How is spending meant to go down our population is growing? Spending HAS to go up...

I can see in a few posts down from this one, you are demanding people to supply evidence. But you are telling me to "And before you dismiss this, it's true."

Proof? Not disputing it...but...it must be in the local paper or something, right?

SpeedMattersNot

2,640 posts

65 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
andymadmak said:
SpeedMattersNot said:
Nearly the whole world are in recession - it's not all because of Labour that we're all in financial difficulty lol.
True, but it is the labour partys fault that we were amongstthe first into recession, went into it deeper than most, and are amongst the last out of it. Its also their fault that we had the least in the kitty ( for that read huge unsustainable debt, and deficit) to help ride it out when times got tough.
Besides, I thought Labours view was that it was all the bankers fault in London. Going a little off message arent you?
I'll take your word for it.

I didn't vote Labour, never have done.

Just pointing out, it's not just us suffering - nearly everyone is.

andymadmak

6,231 posts

139 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
SpeedMattersNot said:
I actually find that quite offensive, to suggest teachers arn't suffering with cuts. Perhaps, your physics teacher has plenty of funding. What group is your son in...? You don't tend to suffer 48% attendance rates in the higher/brighter sets?

Perhaps your sons teacher, doesn't care enough for her job, because she can't afford the text-books, or the props, or has the equipment to enthuse her students the way teachers should? Have you not considered this?

Spending won't actually go down as a) it's a slow process and b) the population is increasing. Just look at Bicester up the road from where I am...3 new schools are to be built in the next 6-7years. How is spending meant to go down our population is growing? Spending HAS to go up...

I can see in a few posts down from this one, you are demanding people to supply evidence. But you are telling me to "And before you dismiss this, it's true."

Proof? Not disputing it...but...it must be in the local paper or something, right?
Offended are you? Diddums. He is As level. And I have met her. She simply doesnt give a toss. The stats were compiled by the students in her group. Perhaps you will accuse them ALL of lieing. I went to school this week and met the head of year. He didn't deny the problem either.

SpeedMattersNot

2,640 posts

65 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
andymadmak said:
SpeedMattersNot said:
I actually find that quite offensive, to suggest teachers arn't suffering with cuts. Perhaps, your physics teacher has plenty of funding. What group is your son in...? You don't tend to suffer 48% attendance rates in the higher/brighter sets?

Perhaps your sons teacher, doesn't care enough for her job, because she can't afford the text-books, or the props, or has the equipment to enthuse her students the way teachers should? Have you not considered this?

Spending won't actually go down as a) it's a slow process and b) the population is increasing. Just look at Bicester up the road from where I am...3 new schools are to be built in the next 6-7years. How is spending meant to go down our population is growing? Spending HAS to go up...

I can see in a few posts down from this one, you are demanding people to supply evidence. But you are telling me to "And before you dismiss this, it's true."

Proof? Not disputing it...but...it must be in the local paper or something, right?
Offended are you? Diddums. He is As level. And I have met her. She simply doesnt give a toss. The stats were compiled by the students in her group. Perhaps you will accuse them ALL of lieing. I went to school this week and met the head of year. He didn't deny the problem either.
Yes, I do find it offensive that you'd consider teachers are not suffering. When I have had to buy supplies myself. Can you at least acknowledge this?

So what is the school going to do about it?

If you have the evidence you say you have, you could easily submit this to higher powers - or even the media and make a small fortune and send your son to a place of education he deserves?

vonuber

3,905 posts

34 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
andymadmak said:
All over the country? Just in your patch? Stats? Not saying you're wrong, its just that whenever someone says something even mildly to the support of the Govt the leftys on here dismiss it unless it can be proven with stats that have been endorsed by the Guardian or the BBC. hehe
Yes, but predominately in the south east. it is having an effect, but not a good one. it is preventing a lot of schemes from moving forward; and no the answer is not cutting the red tape. A lot of the approvals are necessary (and I am saying this from the private sector side).
I would suggest the cuts have been in the wrong place; or have been too 'cut x%' without actually thinking it through of what the effects are.
We do actually need a public sector in the country you know.

andymadmak

6,231 posts

139 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
SpeedMattersNot said:
You don't tend to suffer 48% attendance rates in the higher/brighter sets

just picked up on this. Is it your experience that teachers only want to put the effort in for the brighter kids?
Now that IS offensive!

andymadmak

6,231 posts

139 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
SpeedMattersNot said:
Yes, I do find it offensive that you'd consider teachers are not suffering. When I have had to buy supplies myself. Can you at least acknowledge this?

So what is the school going to do about it?

If you have the evidence you say you have, you could easily submit this to higher powers - or even the media and make a small fortune and send your son to a place of education he deserves?
The school are doing nothing about it. I, and several other parents have hired private tutors. I have raised the matter with the head of year and he simply will NOT engage with it. Others have also tried, with no effect. So we will get our kids through the lack of teacher effort. Honestly, its easier to do it this way than to fight the battle through the school/LEA.
Having run a PTA I have very little respect now for most teachers and even less for LEAs. The waste is hoorendous, and that more than anything else is why there is a shortage of money at some schools.
I do acknowledge that you are doing what you feel is best, and good luck to you for that. But in reality, thia is how the wasteful practices perpetuate. The LEAs are so political, they cut the things they know that you, as parents will fight tooth and nail to keep, and for which you will blame the Government as opposed to the real culprit - the LEA ! Maybe your good lady wife is one of the good teachers, but I have met too many who see the children in their charge as nowt more than cannon fodder in support of their own political ideologies.

davepoth

19,965 posts

68 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
andymadmak said:
True, but it is the labour partys fault that we were amongstthe first into recession, went into it deeper than most, and are amongst the last out of it. Its also their fault that we had the least in the kitty ( for that read huge unsustainable debt, and deficit) to help ride it out when times got tough.
Besides, I thought Labours view was that it was all the bankers fault in London. Going a little off message arent you?
Gordon Brown explained that he would use borrow in the bad times to pay off in the good times, thereby smoothing the economic style in classic Keynesian fashion. However his calculation was that 2005-2007 was a bad time and so he was borrowing. And selling all the gold. And "stimulising" (if it's not a word it probably should be) at the exact time he should have been wielding the axe.

SpeedMattersNot

2,640 posts

65 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
andymadmak said:
SpeedMattersNot said:
You don't tend to suffer 48% attendance rates in the higher/brighter sets

just picked up on this. Is it your experience that teachers only want to put the effort in for the brighter kids?
Now that IS offensive!
No, but in my experience, I found that in the lower sets you did get lower attendance.

SpeedMattersNot

2,640 posts

65 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
andymadmak said:
SpeedMattersNot said:
Yes, I do find it offensive that you'd consider teachers are not suffering. When I have had to buy supplies myself. Can you at least acknowledge this?

So what is the school going to do about it?

If you have the evidence you say you have, you could easily submit this to higher powers - or even the media and make a small fortune and send your son to a place of education he deserves?
The school are doing nothing about it. I, and several other parents have hired private tutors. I have raised the matter with the head of year and he simply will NOT engage with it. Others have also tried, with no effect. So we will get our kids through the lack of teacher effort. Honestly, its easier to do it this way than to fight the battle through the school/LEA.
Having run a PTA I have very little respect now for most teachers and even less for LEAs. The waste is hoorendous, and that more than anything else is why there is a shortage of money at some schools.
I do acknowledge that you are doing what you feel is best, and good luck to you for that. But in reality, thia is how the wasteful practices perpetuate. The LEAs are so political, they cut the things they know that you, as parents will fight tooth and nail to keep, and for which you will blame the Government as opposed to the real culprit - the LEA ! Maybe your good lady wife is one of the good teachers, but I have met too many who see the children in their charge as nowt more than cannon fodder in support of their own political ideologies.
I'm sorry that's the case where you are.

I attend the monthly PTA school quiz and tbh, despite the cuts, we're all pulling together the best we can.

As said - it's a Tory wet-dream. Private sector workers, devoting even more time, to the public sector to cover the cuts.

Regarding my wife, if sending me out at 2am to buy more CD's and CD wallets, or lending her own violin (£3k's worth) or giving up nearly EVERY single lunch hour and staying late after work means she's "one of the good one's" is pretty laughable in my opinion. It's just what you do if you're a teacher...

Thankfully, she teaches at a pretty decent school, albeit, with ever limiting funding! frown

andymadmak

6,231 posts

139 months

[news] 
Thursday 23rd August 2012 quote quote all
SpeedMattersNot said:
'm sorry that's the case where you are.

I attend the monthly PTA school quiz and tbh, despite the cuts, we're all pulling together the best we can.

As said - it's a Tory wet-dream. Private sector workers, devoting even more time, to the public sector to cover the cuts.

Regarding my wife, if sending me out at 2am to buy more CD's and CD wallets, or lending her own violin (£3k's worth) or giving up nearly EVERY single lunch hour and staying late after work means she's "one of the good one's" is pretty laughable in my opinion. It's just what you do if you're a teacher...

Thankfully, she teaches at a pretty decent school, albeit, with ever limiting funding! frown
No, its not a Tory wet dream. Why would it be? What a Tory wants is that for every million pounds the country spends on education the country gets one million pounds worth of value, effort and delivery from all those involved in the provision of education services, be they teachers, assistants, policy makers, LEAs etc

In my time as chair of the PTA we raised tens of thousands of pounds to support essential schools services, from buying paper, paying for photocopiers, computers and even for a while paying the salary of a teacher. The easy place to place the blame for the fact that all this effort was necessary was the Government. After all, as the LEA constantly told us, they were suffering cuts and squeezes. We all had to dig deep. And then I, with my private sector business head on, went to meetings at county hall with the LEA, and do you know what I found? Waste and cynical manipulation on a massive scale. Non essential budgets were NOT cut, whilst essential ones , like teacher salaries, were. Why? Because, as was explained to me by the labour deputy chair, there were no votes in cutting stuff that parents were unlikely to complain about! Yes, really, our kids educations were being used as a vote gathering exercise for Labour. They were clever too. State subsidies that were available were not taken up, thereby widening the deficit further. Services like school meals were priced incredibly low ( 15 pence? ) and the shortfall ( 23 million) was taken from essential budgets. When I pointed out that most people could afford 40p per day to feed their kid, and that the poorest would be protected by the (state funded) free school meals provision and that by raising prices to the middle class to 40p we could liberate millions to pay for the teachers we needed I was told there was no votes for Labour in such a policy. The middle classes needed to be angry about the "cuts". I see the same/similar patterns happening today. Local government, especially labour/libdem local government is rarely honest in how it allocates resources. Tory wet dream tha yu have to pay? Not at all. More like a nightmare as yet again, the responsible members of society step in to pay the price for the manipulation of our education system and the deliberate perpetuation of waste for political gain.

Edited by andymadmak on Thursday 23 August 00:23

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