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Justices

Original Poster:

2,418 posts

34 months

[news] 
Tuesday 22nd May 2012 quote quote all
Mexico has always been a great place for me. Lots of friends all over the country and have stopped in 5+ times a year to catch up experience the sights and sounds. From the North to the gigantic, sprawling capital to the South. I haven't been for a few years, perhaps 2008, but the level of violence there since then has been simply astounding. It's a very different place and not one I am rushing to buy a ticket for just yet.

The question now is, what on earth can the government do against such brutal criminals with the funding, personal armies and ruthless acts of violence against anyone who stands in their way? Los Zetas and the Sinola cartel in particular have been up to things that make every single horror and/or gangster film seem like a Disney showcase. (Avoid googling images and videos of the above if you aren't at ease with brutal human behaviour).

I'd love to go back but it seems like the government and police are relatively powerless and things are getting wildly out of control. Mexico was always wild but it doesn't seem like there is an end to it all. Has anyone been there recently? Is life much the same or this madness affecting daily routine?

"In January 2012, the Mexican government reported that 47,515 people had been killed in drug-related violence since President Felipe Calderón began a military assault on criminal cartels soon after taking office in late 2006. The official tally, provided by the attorney general’s office, included data only through September 2011".

Very sad stuff as there are some wonderful people who are stuck with it over there.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/21/world/americas/m...

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/c...

Jimbeaux

25,725 posts

101 months

[news] 
Tuesday 22nd May 2012 quote quote all
Justices said:
Mexico has always been a great place for me. Lots of friends all over the country and have stopped in 5+ times a year to catch up experience the sights and sounds. From the North to the gigantic, sprawling capital to the South. I haven't been for a few years, perhaps 2008, but the level of violence there since then has been simply astounding. It's a very different place and not one I am rushing to buy a ticket for just yet.

The question now is, what on earth can the government do against such brutal criminals with the funding, personal armies and ruthless acts of violence against anyone who stands in their way? Los Zetas and the Sinola cartel in particular have been up to things that make every single horror and/or gangster film seem like a Disney showcase. (Avoid googling images and videos of the above if you aren't at ease with brutal human behaviour).

I'd love to go back but it seems like the government and police are relatively powerless and things are getting wildly out of control. Mexico was always wild but it doesn't seem like there is an end to it all. Has anyone been there recently? Is life much the same or this madness affecting daily routine?

"In January 2012, the Mexican government reported that 47,515 people had been killed in drug-related violence since President Felipe Calderón began a military assault on criminal cartels soon after taking office in late 2006. The official tally, provided by the attorney general’s office, included data only through September 2011".

Very sad stuff as there are some wonderful people who are stuck with it over there.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/21/world/americas/m...

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/c...
It is miserable, the New 1980s Colombia. Our border states are constanly engaged in spill over activity. I see this as a new military front if our current military assistance to the government falls short.

12gauge

1,274 posts

44 months

[news] 
Tuesday 22nd May 2012 quote quote all
Ive been watching this for the last couple of years. Its despicable. US politicians dont even seem to care that this exceptional level of violence and depravity is the future reality for US border states. If anything they're the next to be bought off by the drugs cartel's. Runs right to the top of US politics with democratic attorney general Eric Holder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fast_and_Fu...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Holder#Controver...

davepoth

20,194 posts

69 months

[news] 
Tuesday 22nd May 2012 quote quote all
It's the next war for the USA IMO. It's going to be interesting to see how they deal with a bordering failed state.

Justices

Original Poster:

2,418 posts

34 months

[news] 
Wednesday 23rd May 2012 quote quote all
Government (not all), military (not all) and police (more than a few!) can either do very little, have taken the "plato" over the far less attractive "plomo" option or are simply on the take with no remorse. This obviously undermines the efforts of the brave that dare to stand against the madness so what you are left with is a very sad state of affairs.

You have to wonder what the U.S are going to do as this is right on their doorstep and they are the biggest consumers of the product that everyone is, in part, being killed over. They seem quite happy to mobilise their armed forces to fly around the planet and bomb the pants off others who pose a "threat" to national safety, so why so little action in Mexico? Lots of innocent people being killed daily, including U.S citizens and most of it barely makes the news. You've got a man having his head chopped off with a chainsaw while his nephew is sitting next to him sharing a similar fate, all whilst being videoed and distributed online.. doesn't seem to get much of a mention on the main news outlets. Something very questionable must be going on behind the scenes as this is being very deliberately pushed from the mainstream news in favour of important things like which talentless wonder has a new reality show..

Very sobering reading (WARNING: graphic images contained in some of the stories).

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/
Advertisement

jshell

5,050 posts

75 months

[news] 
Wednesday 23rd May 2012 quote quote all
Until vast quantites of oil are found (and I know there is quite a bit so far) then the US won't do anything about it, simply.

Raify

6,356 posts

118 months

[news] 
Wednesday 23rd May 2012 quote quote all
Mexico are in a unique position to perform an experiment:

Legalise all drugs and see what happens. After all it can't get much worse.

Uhura fighter

7,018 posts

53 months

[news] 
Wednesday 23rd May 2012 quote quote all
Raify said:
Mexico are in a unique position to perform an experiment:

Legalise all drugs and see what happens. After all it can't get much worse.
It is Americas drug problem that has fked Mexico.

freecar

4,194 posts

57 months

[news] 
Wednesday 23rd May 2012 quote quote all
Uhura fighter said:
Raify said:
Mexico are in a unique position to perform an experiment:

Legalise all drugs and see what happens. After all it can't get much worse.
It is Americas drug problem that has fked Mexico.
This.

It's not the drug taking in Mexico that is fuelling this problem, it is the good ol' USofA trying to get other countries to enforce the rules they make up, great isn't it!

I really don't get why the US can't learn from prohibition, either then or now!

hairykrishna

8,998 posts

73 months

[news] 
Wednesday 23rd May 2012 quote quote all
Raify said:
Mexico are in a unique position to perform an experiment:

Legalise all drugs and see what happens. After all it can't get much worse.
Wouldn't help Mexico. All their drugs are consumed in the US. It'd need legalisation both sides of the border - good luck with that.

Raify

6,356 posts

118 months

[news] 
Wednesday 23rd May 2012 quote quote all
Justices: how is it affecting normal people? I've got a mate in Xalapa and the whole thing isn't really affecting him...

You're all right though, would need legalisation in other countries.

Jimbeaux

25,725 posts

101 months

[news] 
Wednesday 23rd May 2012 quote quote all
12gauge said:
Ive been watching this for the last couple of years. Its despicable. US politicians dont even seem to care that this exceptional level of violence and depravity is the future reality for US border states. If anything they're the next to be bought off by the drugs cartel's. Runs right to the top of US politics with democratic attorney general Eric Holder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fast_and_Fu...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Holder#Controver...
yes

Pesty

26,145 posts

126 months

[news] 
Wednesday 23rd May 2012 quote quote all
davepoth said:
It's the next war for the USA IMO. It's going to be interesting to see how they deal with a bordering failed state.
Nahhh Obama needs the mexican vote.

Jimbeaux

25,725 posts

101 months

[news] 
Wednesday 23rd May 2012 quote quote all
Justices said:
Government (not all), military (not all) and police (more than a few!) can either do very little, have taken the "plato" over the far less attractive "plomo" option or are simply on the take with no remorse. This obviously undermines the efforts of the brave that dare to stand against the madness so what you are left with is a very sad state of affairs.

You have to wonder what the U.S are going to do as this is right on their doorstep and they are the biggest consumers of the product that everyone is, in part, being killed over. They seem quite happy to mobilise their armed forces to fly around the planet and bomb the pants off others who pose a "threat" to national safety, so why so little action in Mexico? Lots of innocent people being killed daily, including U.S citizens and most of it barely makes the news. You've got a man having his head chopped off with a chainsaw while his nephew is sitting next to him sharing a similar fate, all whilst being videoed and distributed online.. doesn't seem to get much of a mention on the main news outlets. Something very questionable must be going on behind the scenes as this is being very deliberately pushed from the mainstream news in favour of important things like which talentless wonder has a new reality show..

Very sobering reading (WARNING: graphic images contained in some of the stories).

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/
There is much US military involvement in Mexico as well as other Latin American countries. It may well escalate to a real war-like war.

Jimbeaux

25,725 posts

101 months

[news] 
Wednesday 23rd May 2012 quote quote all
freecar said:
Uhura fighter said:
Raify said:
Mexico are in a unique position to perform an experiment:

Legalise all drugs and see what happens. After all it can't get much worse.
It is Americas drug problem that has fked Mexico.
This.

It's not the drug taking in Mexico that is fuelling this problem, it is the good ol' USofA trying to get other countries to enforce the rules they make up, great isn't it!

I really don't get why the US can't learn from prohibition, either then or now!
Mexico is not using our rules, they are using their own. Their enforcement is far more strict (and brutal) than what we do.

Uhura fighter

7,018 posts

53 months

[news] 
Wednesday 23rd May 2012 quote quote all
Jimbeaux said:
Mexico is not using our rules, they are using their own. Their enforcement is far more strict (and brutal) than what we do.
Doesn't Perry want US troops sorting it out. (Other than the agency staff currently used)

Can't blame him when the problem literally washes up on his shore....

Jimbeaux

25,725 posts

101 months

[news] 
Wednesday 23rd May 2012 quote quote all
Uhura fighter said:
Jimbeaux said:
Mexico is not using our rules, they are using their own. Their enforcement is far more strict (and brutal) than what we do.
Doesn't Perry want US troops sorting it out. (Other than the agency staff currently used)

Can't blame him when the problem literally washes up on his shore....
Yes. Under the Constitution, defending national borders is a clear cut federal responsibility, not a states' rights issue. However, due to ineffectiveness, states have been taking steps of their own. Many of these steps anger the feds, so the retort is for them to do their job or don't complain when we do.

JDRoest

1,028 posts

20 months

[news] 
Wednesday 23rd May 2012 quote quote all
http://www.businessinsider.com/tiger-poachers-indi...

This ^

Until you drop the human rights of drug dealers, then nothing will change. Shoot them on site. Job done. In the southern US, if they want something eradicated, they put a price on it's head. Do the same in Mexico. Lets see how well drug dealers operate when the local population can take the occasional pot shot.

Legalisation isn't gong to work - what are you making legal? Cannabis? Cocaine? Heroin? Heck, why not just make meths legal and be done with it. Obviously, none of these drugs has ever harmed anyone... And if the US just made meths legal, then you wouldn't have a drugs problem in Mexico as everyone would be getting stoned from cough mixture from CVS. Why bother going to the tedium of importing drugs from another country?

Uhura fighter

7,018 posts

53 months

[news] 
Wednesday 23rd May 2012 quote quote all
JDRoest said:
- what are you making legal? Cannabis? Cocaine? Heroin? Heck, why not just make meths legal and be done with it. Obviously, none of these drugs has ever harmed anyone...?
Cannabis, really?

How has it ever harmed anyone?


(That's another topic I guess)

LaurasOtherHalf

6,468 posts

66 months

[news] 
Wednesday 23rd May 2012 quote quote all
Is it any different to any other drug producing/routing state of the last 40 years though?


What's the difference between mexico & Syria of 20 years ago? Lebanon? Columbia? Afghanistan?

Oh yeah, the beaches & 5* hotels of course!

Any country that allows & helps an illegal international drugs trade within its own borders can't really look anywhere else to blame.

The only reason Mexico is reported on is because a large number of westerners go there for their summer jollies once a year, if they didn't, Mexico would be like all the other countries listed above that no-one gives a toss about (until the next terrorism, arms deal, narc traffic scandle comes along)

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