Liz Truss Prime Minister
Discussion
The bigger issue is the idea that pouring more money into an already inefficient system seems to be little more than a sticking plaster at best.
The example of Thames water was a good one: not only was the management and condition of our public utilities so poor that we decided the only way forward was to sell them off but we then did not even manage to put sufficient contract management and regulation in place to ensure that once in private hands the thing delivered the desired outcome and behaved itself! The first was a failure of the public sector.......and so was the second.
We are generally crap at planning things from within government - but then polticians only ever have a short-term view, and they behave like that because the electorate has the attention span and patience of a gnat. We are all about instant gratification and entitlement in the UK now.
smn159 said:
Matheson her recent American trip she spoke at the annual show of.https://www.ferret.org/
Garvin said:
There's a lot in the above to digest and comment on and I doubt anyone would argue about the Thames Water issue. However, I'd like to touch on the bits I've bolded. Simple question, what are the "proper tax rates" - what/who should be taxed and at what rates?
Eliminate NICs altogether.Remove stamp duty on all financial transactions.
VAT to 25%.
IHT threshold to align with income tax bands and rates
Annual net wealth levy of 0.25%-0.50%
Double education spend
Double health spend
b
hstewie said:
From the ferret debate, Sarah Champion made this contribution: "I am interested that my right hon. Friend is keenly mentioning ferrets at every opportunity that she can in this debate, so let me just put it on record that my brother had a ferret called Oscar."hstewie said:The first intervention from Maria Eagle: "Has the hon. Lady ever owned a ferret? If so, what was that ferret’s name?"
If you want to have continental European levels of public services then you have to have continental European levels of tax. If you don't mind having US levels of public service (and all that entails in terms of social cohesion, levels of relative poverty, infant mortality, crime) then you can have US levels of tax.
What you cannot do is pay US levels of tax and receive continental European standards of public services. This is the UK illusion that is fueled every time the Conservatives say "the NHS is safe in our hands and we're seeking to reduce the tax burden" or when the Labour Party says "we'll increase pubic spending and we'll stick to the Conservative's fiscal plans".
Both positions are fundamentally dishonest and the idea the UK can pull off some magical fiscal trick because "exceptionalism" is clearly delusional.
What you cannot do is pay US levels of tax and receive continental European standards of public services. This is the UK illusion that is fueled every time the Conservatives say "the NHS is safe in our hands and we're seeking to reduce the tax burden" or when the Labour Party says "we'll increase pubic spending and we'll stick to the Conservative's fiscal plans".
Both positions are fundamentally dishonest and the idea the UK can pull off some magical fiscal trick because "exceptionalism" is clearly delusional.
Edited by ATG on Wednesday 17th April 14:57
ATG said:
If you want to have continental European levels of public services then you have to have continental European levels of tax. If you don't mind having US levels of public service (and all that entails in terms of social cohesion, levels of relative poverty, infant mortality, crime) then you can have US levels of tax.
What you cannot do is pay US levels of tax and receive continental European standards of public services. This is the UK illusion that is fueled every time the Conservatives say "the NHS is safe in our hands and we're seeking to reduce the tax burden" or when the Labour Party says "we'll increase pubic spending and we'll stick to the Conservative's fiscal plans".
As mentioned before the difference with many European countries is not very significant once you factor in pension spendingWhat you cannot do is pay US levels of tax and receive continental European standards of public services. This is the UK illusion that is fueled every time the Conservatives say "the NHS is safe in our hands and we're seeking to reduce the tax burden" or when the Labour Party says "we'll increase pubic spending and we'll stick to the Conservative's fiscal plans".
https://data.oecd.org/socialexp/pension-spending.h...
France, for example, spends close to 10% of GDP more on state pensions than we do.
So I think it is more we pay high taxes and get a steadily deteriorating service.
bhstewie said:
She has really let herself go. hstewie said:
silentbrown....amusing article
Alternate view:
"But whether Trussonomics was sound or not isn’t the interesting point. It’s that she stood no chance of implementing even a relatively mild fiscal reform because of the “sheer power of the administrative state and its influence on the markets and the wider polity”. Truss had certainly “not anticipated how ruthless they would be in pushing back by all means at their disposal.” The men in grey suits who once ensured that socialism was unimaginable in Britain now exist to do the same for conservatism, and Karl Marx will be amused to learn that it was the Chancellor, Jeremy Hunt, who ultimately told Truss she had to resign – explaining that “my going was now ‘the price the markets wanted’”.
It was a coup. One of the most pro-capitalist governments in memory was thus ended by a cabal of capitalists, which suggests that capitalism hasn’t got much of a future.
........
Tim Stanley "
Edited for spelling
Alternate view:
"But whether Trussonomics was sound or not isn’t the interesting point. It’s that she stood no chance of implementing even a relatively mild fiscal reform because of the “sheer power of the administrative state and its influence on the markets and the wider polity”. Truss had certainly “not anticipated how ruthless they would be in pushing back by all means at their disposal.” The men in grey suits who once ensured that socialism was unimaginable in Britain now exist to do the same for conservatism, and Karl Marx will be amused to learn that it was the Chancellor, Jeremy Hunt, who ultimately told Truss she had to resign – explaining that “my going was now ‘the price the markets wanted’”.
It was a coup. One of the most pro-capitalist governments in memory was thus ended by a cabal of capitalists, which suggests that capitalism hasn’t got much of a future.
........
Tim Stanley "
Edited for spelling
oyster said:
Garvin said:
There's a lot in the above to digest and comment on and I doubt anyone would argue about the Thames Water issue. However, I'd like to touch on the bits I've bolded. Simple question, what are the "proper tax rates" - what/who should be taxed and at what rates?
Eliminate NICs altogether.Remove stamp duty on all financial transactions.
VAT to 25%.
IHT threshold to align with income tax bands and rates
Annual net wealth levy of 0.25%-0.50%
Double education spend
Double health spend
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