Russia Invades Ukraine. Volume 4

Russia Invades Ukraine. Volume 4

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TonyRPH

12,995 posts

169 months

Tuesday 30th April
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CivicDuties said:
My son's just come back from backpacking in Thailand/Cambodia. Says Thailand is absolutely rammed with Ruzzians.
Yep. I've been following "Sanctioned Ivan" on Youtube and he's moved to Thaliland.

He seems to encounter a lot of other Russians there as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y45rqinshA4


Condi

17,303 posts

172 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
Makes you wonder what they are flying on, and the state of them, first post in this vol mentions the state of Russian aviation...
For a mere £1000 you can fly Moscow to Bangkok return on Thai Airways. The same plane might well fly to London the week after.

Russia isn't some international pariah except to Europe and the US, the rest of the world is continuing to deal with them as before which is why sanctions have been less effective than expected and the whole Russian economy is simply pivoting to buying Chinese supplied goods, with the deals done in Yen, using companies set up exactly for that purpose. No US dollar involvement means that US enforcement is very limited. Even Western produced good are being supplied to Russia, via intermediary companies.

J4CKO

41,691 posts

201 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
Condi said:
J4CKO said:
Makes you wonder what they are flying on, and the state of them, first post in this vol mentions the state of Russian aviation...
For a mere £1000 you can fly Moscow to Bangkok return on Thai Airways. The same plane might well fly to London the week after.

Russia isn't some international pariah except to Europe and the US, the rest of the world is continuing to deal with them as before which is why sanctions have been less effective than expected and the whole Russian economy is simply pivoting to buying Chinese supplied goods, with the deals done in Yen, using companies set up exactly for that purpose. No US dollar involvement means that US enforcement is very limited. Even Western produced good are being supplied to Russia, via intermediary companies.
Makes sense, wonder if any Russian carriers are still operating outside Russia ?

Most of the planes are Boeing and Airbus, and spares are reasonably traceable, must be mainly foreign airlines ?

Oliver Hardy

2,615 posts

75 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
If Putin fails, people are betting on the the further breakup of the Soviet state. China has an eye on parts of Russia that used to be China and Turkey is backing the independence of some states, then there is Chechnya and George amongst others according to some you tube channels I have watched.

Digga

40,407 posts

284 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
isaldiri said:
J4CKO said:
CivicDuties said:
My son's just come back from backpacking in Thailand/Cambodia. Says Thailand is absolutely rammed with Ruzzians.
Makes you wonder what they are flying on, and the state of them, first post in this vol mentions the state of Russian aviation...
What makes you think they necessarily are flying by russian airlines?
Makes me very concerned about maintenance though. It is not exceptional for an aircraft to need the odd part or bit of service on loanding. Most usual thing probably being tyres. WTF sort of dtich-finder is getting fitted in Russia?

bloomen

6,943 posts

160 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
Makes sense, wonder if any Russian carriers are still operating outside Russia ?
I thought their planes are largely stolen from the leasees. As soon as they land they're going to struggle to leave in anywhere with some vague law and order.

Condi

17,303 posts

172 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
Makes sense, wonder if any Russian carriers are still operating outside Russia ?

Most of the planes are Boeing and Airbus, and spares are reasonably traceable, must be mainly foreign airlines ?
Russian carriers are struggling due to lack of spares, using either their own stocks, parts off older or non-serviceable aircraft, or parts smuggled in via other countries. They do also have their own aircraft, mainly Tupolev's, still flying.

TonyRPH

12,995 posts

169 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
Condi said:
J4CKO said:
Makes you wonder what they are flying on, and the state of them, first post in this vol mentions the state of Russian aviation...
For a mere £1000 you can fly Moscow to Bangkok return on Thai Airways. The same plane might well fly to London the week after.

Russia isn't some international pariah except to Europe and the US, the rest of the world is continuing to deal with them as before which is why sanctions have been less effective than expected and the whole Russian economy is simply pivoting to buying Chinese supplied goods, with the deals done in Yen, using companies set up exactly for that purpose. No US dollar involvement means that US enforcement is very limited. Even Western produced good are being supplied to Russia, via intermediary companies.
Makes sense, wonder if any Russian carriers are still operating outside Russia ?

Most of the planes are Boeing and Airbus, and spares are reasonably traceable, must be mainly foreign airlines ?
The guy I mentioned a couple of posts back "Sanctioned Ivan" - recently flew from Russia to Thailand, and I'm sure he was on an Aeroplop jet.



isaldiri

18,706 posts

169 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
Digga said:
Makes me very concerned about maintenance though. It is not exceptional for an aircraft to need the odd part or bit of service on loanding. Most usual thing probably being tyres. WTF sort of dtich-finder is getting fitted in Russia?
Airbus and Boeing I am quite reliably told have long ago switched off any comms with the russian fleet (that mainly was leased) so maintenance kind of isn't their problem anymore and entirely up to the russians. I suppose they can source parts to a degree from the usual suspects who obviously also have large fleets but the aircraft manufacturers are pretty good at keeping track of obvious bits.....

Rumblestripe

2,985 posts

163 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
For those thinking that all is doom and gloom it is worth listening to this analysis from Lieutenant General Ben Hodges, former Commander of U.S. Forces Europe


trickywoo

11,898 posts

231 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
Rumblestripe said:
For those thinking that all is doom and gloom it is worth listening to this analysis from Lieutenant General Ben Hodges, former Commander of U.S. Forces Europe

I hope he’s right but he was saying that Russia had lost the war 6 months ago yet here we are with them advancing still.

He was also calling for more US aid back then and seemed really frustrated with the support being provided.

LivLL

10,908 posts

198 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
The middle east airlines are running many many flights back and forth from Russia, from there Russians can go wherever with ease.

The Gauge

2,058 posts

14 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
Condi said:
For a mere £1000 you can fly Moscow to Bangkok return on Thai Airways. The same plane might well fly to London the week after.

Russia isn't some international pariah except to Europe and the US, the rest of the world is continuing to deal with them as before which is why sanctions have been less effective than expected and the whole Russian economy is simply pivoting to buying Chinese supplied goods, with the deals done in Yen, using companies set up exactly for that purpose. No US dollar involvement means that US enforcement is very limited. Even Western produced good are being supplied to Russia, via intermediary companies.
I heard on the radio that the UK and western countries are still buying oil from Russia, only it has passed through various hands before it gets into ours. I think the explanation was similar to the oil tankers sail to another country and transfer their oil to other tankers, which we then buy from?

Rumblestripe

2,985 posts

163 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
trickywoo said:
Rumblestripe said:
For those thinking that all is doom and gloom it is worth listening to this analysis from Lieutenant General Ben Hodges, former Commander of U.S. Forces Europe

I hope he’s right but he was saying that Russia had lost the war 6 months ago yet here we are with them advancing still.

He was also calling for more US aid back then and seemed really frustrated with the support being provided.
The Russian "advances" are very limited a field here and there and at huge expense in both blood and metal. Ukraine is very big. Even Russia does not have limitless blood to spill and they cannot win an "industrial war" with the West. The stuff that they are getting from China is either of limited military use like the "golf buggies" that they have been using in lieu of APCs or is having to pass through several "intermediaries" before it gets to them, each intermediary adding a "cut" to the cost. They are at a disadvantage in drone usage, technology and production capability. Their supply of ammunition is unreliable (they've had the usable stuff from North Korea and Iran has become less "giving" as a result of potentially finding itself in a shooting war of its own), as well as ammunition they are short of barrels for artillery pieces (and they are losing artillery systems to longer ranging western artillery counter battery fire). This current offensive is politically driven to try to secure The Donbas as a counter at the negotiation table and also they gambled that they had sufficient control/influence in the GOP to make sure that US aid would be delayed indefinitely. They face unrest in Chechnya and the threat of expulsion from Georgia and Moldova. China is eyeing Manchuria with intent. Other parts of the Federation are getting twitchy too. It wouldn't take much to see some of these states split from the federation. They have miscalculated at every turn of this war. Probably because like most dictatorships you don't want to be the one to tell "The Boss" how bad it really is.

Unfortunately there will be a lot more killing and dying before this is resolved but I believe that at the end of it Russia will be much diminished on the world stage, perhaps even losing its place on the UN Security Council.

Cheib

23,312 posts

176 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
Biggy Stardust said:
Cheib said:
The ICC needs to start charging people lower down the food chain….I am sure there will be detailed knowledge of which units are responsible for these crimes. I would love to know what is stopping the ICC from charging the commanding officers etc.
How would you envisage these charges being enforced, eg arrest & trial?
If they are charged then they can’t travel to ICC signatory countries….eg Thailand as mentioned above. Clearly they are never going to be arrested in Russia but they also won’t be able to travel freely.

You have to start somewhere and maybe the threat of ICC arrest warrants starts getting some of the lower echelons of the Russian military thinking about long term implications.

Cheib

23,312 posts

176 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
Rumblestripe said:
trickywoo said:
Rumblestripe said:
For those thinking that all is doom and gloom it is worth listening to this analysis from Lieutenant General Ben Hodges, former Commander of U.S. Forces Europe

I hope he’s right but he was saying that Russia had lost the war 6 months ago yet here we are with them advancing still.

He was also calling for more US aid back then and seemed really frustrated with the support being provided.
The Russian "advances" are very limited a field here and there and at huge expense in both blood and metal. Ukraine is very big. Even Russia does not have limitless blood to spill and they cannot win an "industrial war" with the West. The stuff that they are getting from China is either of limited military use like the "golf buggies" that they have been using in lieu of APCs or is having to pass through several "intermediaries" before it gets to them, each intermediary adding a "cut" to the cost. They are at a disadvantage in drone usage, technology and production capability. Their supply of ammunition is unreliable (they've had the usable stuff from North Korea and Iran has become less "giving" as a result of potentially finding itself in a shooting war of its own), as well as ammunition they are short of barrels for artillery pieces (and they are losing artillery systems to longer ranging western artillery counter battery fire). This current offensive is politically driven to try to secure The Donbas as a counter at the negotiation table and also they gambled that they had sufficient control/influence in the GOP to make sure that US aid would be delayed indefinitely. They face unrest in Chechnya and the threat of expulsion from Georgia and Moldova. China is eyeing Manchuria with intent. Other parts of the Federation are getting twitchy too. It wouldn't take much to see some of these states split from the federation. They have miscalculated at every turn of this war. Probably because like most dictatorships you don't want to be the one to tell "The Boss" how bad it really is.

Unfortunately there will be a lot more killing and dying before this is resolved but I believe that at the end of it Russia will be much diminished on the world stage, perhaps even losing its place on the UN Security Council.
Maybe a combination of long range ATACMS, F16’s, and a few other systems might make a real difference. Let’s hope so !

macron

9,936 posts

167 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
Rumblestripe said:
The Russian "advances" are very limited a field here and there and at huge expense in both blood and metal.
The same is true on both sides.

Rumblestripe said:
Ukraine is very big. Even Russia does not have limitless blood to spill
The same is true on both sides.

The thing I worry about most is Ukraine running out of people, well before any fancy hardware eventually arrives to help. You can replace metal, but if there's no one to operate it...

Edited by macron on Tuesday 30th April 18:57

Condi

17,303 posts

172 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
The Gauge said:
I heard on the radio that the UK and western countries are still buying oil from Russia, only it has passed through various hands before it gets into ours. I think the explanation was similar to the oil tankers sail to another country and transfer their oil to other tankers, which we then buy from?
Yes, transhipments. From memory we can import the oil directly if it is >70% non Russian (ie less than 30% Russian), but more crucially there is no restriction around importing refined products (petrol, diesel etc), and so a lot of oil is shipped to India and China by boat, refined into petrol and then either frees up other petrol stocks to come here, or is even shipped back to Europe. Similarly with gas, the EU is still a buyer of Russian pipeline gas, and also LNG.


Rumblestripe

2,985 posts

163 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
macron said:
Rumblestripe said:
The Russian "advances" are very limited a field here and there and at huge expense in both blood and metal.
The same is true on both sides.

Rumblestripe said:
Ukraine is very big. Even Russia does not have limitless blood to spill /quote]
The same is true on both sides.

The thing I worry about most is Ukraine running out of people, well before any fancy hardware eventually arrives to help. You can replace metal, but if there's no one to operate it...
That is just one of the stupid things, even if Russia had managed to overrun Ukraine in its initial invasion, they could not hold it. They couldn't hold Afghanistan as the USSR and that is a much smaller country albeit with different geographical challenges.

Losses

Russia is doing the attacking. Military thinking stipulates that you need at least a 3:1 advantage at the point of contact when attacking, possibly more when attacking well designed and established defensive lines. The casualty rates for the attacker will always be higher (even assuming equality of weaponry and competency therewith) if there is an advantage in weaponry that will tip one way or the other. Flexibility of doctrine and superior tactical discipline and command also give an advantage to Ukraine. You also have the motivation of conscripts told to run towards a line of trees c.f. volunteers fighting for the homeland. Of course fatigue is a worry not just in the supply of Western military aid (though the EU and others have stepped up and now the US is back in the game) that should not be a factor for at least a couple of years. Ukraine are much more careful with their squishy assets but as you say they are not inexhaustible.

We'll see but I think most analysts now agree that Russia cannot win and importantly, politicians agree that they cannot be allowed to.

Condi

17,303 posts

172 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
Rumblestripe said:
We'll see but I think most analysts now agree that Russia cannot win and importantly, politicians agree that they cannot be allowed to.
Many analysts also say Ukraine cannot win. They don't have the manpower or resources to push Russia out of their very heavily defended positions.

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