Israel invaded

skwdenyer

16,632 posts

241 months

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Friday 12th April

JagLover said:

rohrl said:

Is it okay to bomb other countries embassies now, or is it only okay if Israel does it? I can’t really see how Israel could complain if Iran blows up one of their embassies, but I’m willing to bet they would say that Iran were indescribably evil if they did so.

This article goes into the legal arguments

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/02/world/europe/in...

In case useful: https://archive.ph/dbPbH

skwdenyer

16,632 posts

241 months

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Friday 12th April

isaldiri said:

loafer123 said:

isaldiri said:

loafer123 said:

Surely even you can see that Iran’s proxies are the agitators and instigators here?

Surely even you can see that bombing consulates/embassy buildings of iran in syria and lebanon is somewhat of an intentionally direct provocation beyond the mostly tit for tat exchanges of fire along the lebanon/israeli border which has rather deliberately been calibrated not to turn much worse?

Did you deliberately ignore the October 7th atrocity that kicked this all off?

You said 'iran's proxies'. I don't personally consider hamas or any of the other palestinian armed resistance/terrorist groups to be part of that group unlike the hourhis or hezbollah even if they have been in receipt of iranian military aid.

Calling Hamas a proxy or Iran is a useful way of bringing Iran into the mix. On that basis (military aid used in killing civilians), Israel is a proxy of the UK…

skwdenyer

16,632 posts

241 months

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Friday 12th April

NRS said:

KarlMac said:

isaldiri said:

I suppose you would also have no issue with supporting assassinations of the 'settler cranks' as well as the more extremist elements of the Israeli government too?

If they formed a terrorist organisation then yes I would.

Look, you don’t have to dance around it. We’ve all worked out you support Hamas. Same as in the Ukraine thread you were dancing around the support of Russia. How very contrarian of you. Very clever.

What makes up a terrorist organization? Clearly we all agree one that going into someone’s house and dragging them out and killing horrifically is. But we seem to have different opinions on if blowing up part of a hospital and killing innocent children is terrorism for those innocents involved.

One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter…

skwdenyer

16,632 posts

241 months

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Friday 12th April

loafer123 said:

isaldiri said:

loafer123 said:

Surely even you can see that Iran’s proxies are the agitators and instigators here?

Surely even you can see that bombing consulates/embassy buildings of iran in syria and lebanon is somewhat of an intentionally direct provocation beyond the mostly tit for tat exchanges of fire along the lebanon/israeli border which has rather deliberately been calibrated not to turn much worse?

Did you deliberately ignore the October 7th atrocity that kicked this all off?

I really don’t think you can just arbitrarily pick 7/10/23 as being the singular date upon which this conflict rests, not least because Netanyahu & co deliberately set up Hamas as the “bogeymen” in order to ensure there’d be no peace. It may have blown up in their faces - although for all we know they were delighted with how bad things went, providing them as it did seeming carte blanche to execute in Gaza.

Remember the “Chechen separatist” bombing in Moscow, which led to this?

(which is Grozny, not Gaza, although the similarities are striking)

Uncanny how suitable pretexts for war tend to turn up for warmongers.

JJJ.

1,375 posts

16 months

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Friday 12th April

skwdenyer said:

Remember the “Chechen separatist” bombing in Moscow, which led to this?

(which is Grozny, not Gaza, although the similarities are striking)

Uncanny how suitable pretexts for war tend to turn up for warmongers.

Sadly, that's an improvement of on Gaza judging by the photos on TV tonight.

loafer123

15,455 posts

216 months

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[news]

Friday 12th April

isaldiri said:

loafer123 said:

isaldiri said:

loafer123 said:

Surely even you can see that Iran’s proxies are the agitators and instigators here?

Surely even you can see that bombing consulates/embassy buildings of iran in syria and lebanon is somewhat of an intentionally direct provocation beyond the mostly tit for tat exchanges of fire along the lebanon/israeli border which has rather deliberately been calibrated not to turn much worse?

Did you deliberately ignore the October 7th atrocity that kicked this all off?

You said 'iran's proxies'. I don't personally consider hamas or any of the other palestinian armed resistance/terrorist groups to be part of that group unlike the hourhis or hezbollah even if they have been in receipt of iranian military aid.

Not sure if you’re actually being serious.

Hamas, like Hezbollah, is funded and aided by Iran.

https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israe...

isaldiri

18,706 posts

169 months

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[news]

Friday 12th April

loafer123 said:

Not sure if you’re actually being serious.

Hamas, like Hezbollah, is funded and aided by Iran.

https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israe...

Perfectly serious. While Hamas are certainly allies of Iran given the 'enemy of my enemy' thing and are more than happy to be taking arms and money from anyone that will help them, imo your use of 'proxy' excludes Hamas as Iran does not, imo anyway, have anything like the same agency over their actions like their actual proxies of Hezbollah or the houthis where they are united by ideological slant with Iran being shia muslims. ymmv.

Ridgemont

6,609 posts

132 months

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[news]

Saturday 13th April

isaldiri said:

loafer123 said:

Not sure if you’re actually being serious.

Hamas, like Hezbollah, is funded and aided by Iran.

https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israe...

Perfectly serious. While Hamas are certainly allies of Iran given the 'enemy of my enemy' thing and are more than happy to be taking arms and money from anyone that will help them, imo your use of 'proxy' excludes Hamas as Iran does not, imo anyway, have anything like the same agency over their actions like their actual proxies of Hezbollah or the houthis where they are united by ideological slant with Iran being shia muslims. ymmv.

Amazing insight into the mechanics of various terrorist organisations. And what if their perceptions don’t agree with your fantasitcal imagining?

Ridgemont

6,609 posts

132 months

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[news]

Saturday 13th April

skwdenyer said:

loafer123 said:

isaldiri said:

loafer123 said:

Surely even you can see that Iran’s proxies are the agitators and instigators here?

Surely even you can see that bombing consulates/embassy buildings of iran in syria and lebanon is somewhat of an intentionally direct provocation beyond the mostly tit for tat exchanges of fire along the lebanon/israeli border which has rather deliberately been calibrated not to turn much worse?

Did you deliberately ignore the October 7th atrocity that kicked this all off?

I really don’t think you can just arbitrarily pick 7/10/23 as being the singular date upon which this conflict rests, not least because Netanyahu & co deliberately set up Hamas as the “bogeymen” in order to ensure there’d be no peace. It may have blown up in their faces - although for all we know they were delighted with how bad things went, providing them as it did seeming carte blanche to execute in Gaza.

Remember the “Chechen separatist” bombing in Moscow, which led to this?

(which is Grozny, not Gaza, although the similarities are striking)

Uncanny how suitable pretexts for war tend to turn up for warmongers.

Superb. You are now comparing Israel with Russia.

Carry on.

skwdenyer

16,632 posts

241 months

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Saturday 13th April

Ridgemont said:

Superb. You are now comparing Israel with Russia.

Carry on.

I don’t think Russia is bad. I don’t think Israel is bad. I know Putin & co are bad. I’m confident Netanyahu & co are bad.

HTH

ferrisbueller

29,366 posts

228 months

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[news]

Saturday 13th April

Iran now launched drones........

skwdenyer

16,632 posts

241 months

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Saturday 13th April

ferrisbueller said:

Iran now launched drones........

Well if you blow up embassies with air strikes, this seems to be the sort of reasonable, proportionate response that the USA would carry out.

We don’t get to play double standards with impunity. Israel was arrogant, stupid & reckless.

NerveAgent

3,346 posts

221 months

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Saturday 13th April

skwdenyer said:

ferrisbueller said:

Iran now launched drones........

Well if you blow up embassies with air strikes, this seems to be the sort of reasonable, proportionate response that the USA would carry out.

We don’t get to play double standards with impunity. Israel was arrogant, stupid & reckless.

Do you even know what stance you are trying to take any more? It seems all over the place.

JJJ.

1,375 posts

16 months

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Saturday 13th April

skwdenyer said:

Well if you blow up embassies with air strikes, this seems to be the sort of reasonable, proportionate response that the USA would carry out.

We don’t get to play double standards with impunity. Israel was arrogant, stupid & reckless.

I think it could fair to say they can be knowing they've got the full support of US. May be the Israeli's think a full scale conflict in the Middle East is the way forward for their ultimate goals. After all they only lost 260 troops out of 90,000 that were sent to Gaza.

Amazing, that if Israel and Iran go to war it will be two tyrants that are both disliked by many of the same. Difficult to know which is worse than the other.

skwdenyer

16,632 posts

241 months

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Saturday 13th April

NerveAgent said:

skwdenyer said:

ferrisbueller said:

Iran now launched drones........

Well if you blow up embassies with air strikes, this seems to be the sort of reasonable, proportionate response that the USA would carry out.

We don’t get to play double standards with impunity. Israel was arrogant, stupid & reckless.

Do you even know what stance you are trying to take any more? It seems all over the place.

The stance I’m taking is consistent. If you want to be treated like a civilised nation, you must act like one. The current Israeli regime is acting like a school bully with a bunch of older brothers to protect them from negative consequences. That attitude is leading to conflict and death where a more measured approach is necessary.

Baroque attacks

4,444 posts

187 months

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Saturday 13th April

skwdenyer said:

ferrisbueller said:

Iran now launched drones........

Well if you blow up embassies with air strikes, this seems to be the sort of reasonable, proportionate response that the USA would carry out.

Putting quite a bit of faith in Iran with that comment.

M1AGM

2,378 posts

33 months

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[news]

Saturday 13th April

Houthis joining in with Iran.

Sinwar wanted to start a wider war against Israel with the 7/10 attacks and it looks like he may succeed.

skwdenyer

16,632 posts

241 months

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[news]

Saturday 13th April

M1AGM said:

Houthis joining in with Iran.

Sinwar wanted to start a wider war against Israel with the 7/10 attacks and it looks like he may succeed.

And Sinwar was enabled and funded with the help of Netanyahu & co.

Recent Israeli political history is like a Grimm’a fairy tale, warning of the consequences of stupid or reckless behaviour.

petemurphy

10,135 posts

184 months

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Saturday 13th April

Are they the worlds slowest drones

ferrisbueller

29,366 posts

228 months

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