Israel invaded

As you well know there is a million light years between a democratically elected government, who you dislike for being headed up by a careerist populist and absolute Rsole, and a fundamentalist theocracy which resorted in the last peoples uprising to wholesale rape, incarceration and murder. Netanyahu did not appear before the UN and state Iran would be annihilated. Ahmadinejad did precisely that re Israel.
I have met Iranians and Israelis. I like them both. Well at least the Iranians I met who lived in the UK. However. I have no doubts one is a dictatorship in all but name and the other is not.

Israel is a country a little like a wolfhound in a bear pit. The only way it survives is to be ferocious. Yes you might wish it didn’t bite as much but it’s still a wolfhound not a bear.

That is not to excuse it, but normal ‘western’ rules have to be managed in their entirety and the right to exist is an absolute. This, it appears, seems not to be understood by a large chunk of the political ME nor their vacuous transcribers in some part of the western press. This is existential. The Jewish people have been here before.

It's funny reading your posts. Your hatred of Israel is so intense and so all consuming you seem to have become a conspiracy theory.

Are you really suggesting Israel is controlled by some deep state force?

We know many dictators where originally elected. So was Hamas. What matters in a democracy is there will be a next election. A democracy is also about a free press, freedom of speech, a fair court system, etc.

What IS the latest on the remaining hostages anyway?

I'd also say if a democracy behaves in a bad way that is probably worse than a dictatorship. If it's a democracy that does it then it says enough people support that bad behaviour (particularly if the person/party or similar ones are voted in again). With Israel it looks likely that the PM will be kicked out, but replaced with people with similar views on Palestine. A dictatorship might be against the wishes of the people, but is repressing them. Clearly there is massive issues with a dictatorship, but I don't think a democratically elected country doing bad things (more so if voted in again) is a good thing, it would show most people there have "problematic" views.

I used to have this opinion before, Israel was in a fight for survival. That used to be true, but is far less the case these days. There is some who would like it wiped out, but those people are mostly relatively powerless due to pressures in the wider region (Sunni-Shia) and Western support, plus their own defence system. Instead it looks to me now that the repression of the Palestinians is outright wrong for them, AND is creating more deaths and threats for the Jews in the long term. This latest flattening of Gaza and many civilian deaths has created a new Hamas with loads of soldiers for it's cause in 10-20 years time, even if it does get rid of them now for a bit. Not to mention the anger that will have built up in surrounding Arab nations. It's an own goal, and played right into Hamas' hands. Netanyahu has made yet another mistake for the safety of his people, not only did he fund Hamas earlier on, he now has created Hamas 2 once most of these kids grow up again, plus raised hate in the rest of the Arab world. That said, I don't think he and some of the other zionist lot mind, they likely have similar views but don't say them due to the pressure from others. Just look how he reacted at his rallies when the moderate Israeli PM was assassinated previously.

In your analogy Israel created a lot of the bearpit to keep the Palestinians down, and then started biting the bears and so I'm not sure the analogy works too well. Israel is doing the classic mistake of having it's older leaders fight the war they grew up with, not adapting and treating the world as it is now. It happens all the time.

It would be good to have some sensible discussion on here rather than just "I hate Israel". I hope the above post might kick this off.

I agree with some of your points but not all.

I agree Israel is no longer in a fight for survival. It's a nuclear power and has signed peace treaties with many Arab countries. However, as resent events have shown it still needs help. It's also an important trading partner for many major countries. It needs those relationships. So even if it's government had the power to commit genocide it knows there are limits.

The action in Gaza would never have happened without 7/10. It's what Hamas wanted. They knew the action would bring condemnation from some. However, I believe they also thought that there local knowledge, infrastructure, and terrain meant they would be able to cause significant Israeli casualties. They where wrong in that they have lost a lot of fighters while Israeli casualties are low. The response from many Arab nations has also been muted. Will it create more recruits for Hamas is an interesting question. I would suggest if you wanted to fight Israel then, based on current performance, Hamas is not the one to join.

I wondered in an early post what Netanyahu's plan was for after the invasion. As it stand now, as is typical with Netanyahu, I suspect there is no plan.

If, as seems likely, this ends Netanyahu's career then that will be one small gain for so much bloodshed.

I am ‘agreeing’ that the person concerned had an agenda long before this current wave of hostilities kicked off.

But, don’t let that bit of sane thought stop you from attempting and failing at trying to look any more important than everyone else on here.

One point I have noticed from some posters. If you claim the people of Gaza attacked Israel they insist it was Hamas who do not represent the people. While the same posters then post about the actions of Israel not the Netanyahu government. I wonder if they understand what hypocrisy is?

As for your question. I think Netanyahu carries much of the blame for where we are now. He does not want a 2 state solution, he clearly does not want a single state, he know is what he does not want but not what he wants. He has allowed settlement to continue in the WB so as to keep on side the religious extremists while continuing to allow them to avoid service. He played games with Hamas and the PA so as to try to avoid any pressure to improve the situation. All of these actions where designed to keep him in power none for the good of the majority of Israelis.

It's now blown up in his face and it's likely it will end his career.

Netanyahu may have been playing with fireworks but Hamas threw in the match.

As I said above Hamas expected support and to cause major Israeli casualties. This has not happened.

It's also seems likely there is no plan for Gaza.

It's looks to me as it everyone is a loser.

You could make the same argument about Palestinian lives vs African Muslims life’s. Yet to see Muslims lobbying, campaigning or marching in protest of their brothers in Sudan, Eritrea or Somalialand/Puntland… I can’t quite put my finger on why they might hold Israel to different standards.

Reading the last page talking about democracy and dictators then read the news and it's all about what David Cameron as to say.
Tell me again when he was voted in by the public to represent us in this matter?
We also have a priminister who never really was elected as such.