Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?
Discussion
Pan Pan Pan said:
I have not, nor ever contended, that conditions for the working person, have not been significantly improved since WW2....
This schtick also gets quite tiresome.Pan Pan Pan said:
We have had labour, and tory governments since the last war, and neither have been any good for the working people .
Nuance doesn't really strike me as your thing but I expect you'll shortly be attempting it.Killboy said:
But I thought they were all the same, and you're just the unbiased one here? Doesn't seem very unbiased to me.
Do you reference reform and their unattainable policies in the labour thread?
Are you going to vote for reform?
The thing about being unbiased (well more accurately, not having biases that interfere with your decision making) is that you don't need to tell anyone. Do you reference reform and their unattainable policies in the labour thread?
Are you going to vote for reform?
If you need to emphasise you're "unbiased" it's a pretty good sign you're the complete opposite.
Tom8 said:
As each day passes Reform and its supporters seem more like Corbyn and Momentum. They all have a cult leader, the great one they all follow. They all believe in conspiracy theories about "bankers" and Jews etc who control everything. Two cheeks. One arse. Or maybe two?
It would be interesting to do an experiment: take Reform Party policies, and Socialist Worker Party policies, and ask people to match the party to the policy.Pan Pan Pan has views. Many I disagree with.
I'll say one thing about Reform UK and leave it there. I used to live in Northern Ireland. They've a party pact with (in my opinion) one of the most bigoted parties there. I wouldn't vote for them if they begged me to. I've seen their true colours.
On policy, they're offering nothing.
On party, they're not even a party, they're a private enterprise with shareholders.
On reality their desire to destroy the tories is something I'll not prevent them from doing but I don't fancy their chances.
The tories still being in power when most of the country doesn't want them is the symptom of all that's wrong. Reform offering competition isn't. They're scum but they're not the problem.
I'll say one thing about Reform UK and leave it there. I used to live in Northern Ireland. They've a party pact with (in my opinion) one of the most bigoted parties there. I wouldn't vote for them if they begged me to. I've seen their true colours.
On policy, they're offering nothing.
On party, they're not even a party, they're a private enterprise with shareholders.
On reality their desire to destroy the tories is something I'll not prevent them from doing but I don't fancy their chances.
The tories still being in power when most of the country doesn't want them is the symptom of all that's wrong. Reform offering competition isn't. They're scum but they're not the problem.
Tom8 said:
As each day passes Reform and its supporters seem more like Corbyn and Momentum. They all have a cult leader, the great one they all follow. They all believe in conspiracy theories about "bankers" and Jews etc who control everything. Two cheeks. One arse. Or maybe two?
‘They all believe in conspiracy theories’. Really?? The party scored double-digit vote shares in both Wellingborough and Kingswood, matching the levels it has been polling nationally. Are they really all conspiracy theory believers? Think about it.
Reform is attractive to a lot of people, mostly disaffection conservatives.
captain_cynic said:
The thing about being unbiased (well more accurately, not having biases that interfere with your decision making) is that you don't need to tell anyone.
If you need to emphasise you're "unbiased" it's a pretty good sign you're the complete opposite.
Yes, and thinking you're the smartest in the room goes well with it.If you need to emphasise you're "unbiased" it's a pretty good sign you're the complete opposite.
President Merkin said:
bad company said:
Reform is attractive to a lot of people, mostly disaffection conservatives.
Other than the death penalty, all of these in one form or another are current Reform policies. What kind of disaffected Tory are you exactly?eta I’m not in favour of the death penalty, although with the advancements in science and digital tech’ we can be ever more certain of a convicted murderers guilt. Such certainty brings forward the possibility of death sentences, for example the two x child killer filth such as Ian Huntley.
Edited by crankedup5 on Tuesday 23 April 14:38
crankedup5 said:
Excellent demonstration failure by Tory/Labour Governments over the past 50 years that these issues have still not been adequately addressed.
More like an excellent demonstration of the efficacy of successive governments at keeping hate filled bigots in their little boxes and long may it continue. President Merkin said:
bad company said:
Reform is attractive to a lot of people, mostly disaffection conservatives.
Other than the death penalty, all of these in one form or another are current Reform policies. What kind of disaffected Tory are you exactly?
As for those policies:-
Reform policy is to control not stop immigration.
We’ve already left the EU.
Make Britain great again. I wonder what that really means?
Scrap overseas aid. No but I’d certainly like it reduced, read this - https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/new-upda...
Rebuild our armed forces. I think all parties realise that this needs to happen, the ‘peace dividend’ is gone.
That’s the kind of disaffected Tory I am. I intend voting Reform partly because imo the conservatives have lost their way and partly because I dislike our MP.
Edited by bad company on Tuesday 23 April 16:08
President Merkin said:
Er.... Reform's policy position is net zero immigration. You're not seriously contemplating voting for a party whose policy documents you haven't bothered to read are you?
Clear enough:-https://www.reformparty.uk/immigration
bad company said:
‘They all believe in conspiracy theories’. Really??
The party scored double-digit vote shares in both Wellingborough and Kingswood, matching the levels it has been polling nationally. Are they really all conspiracy theory believers? Think about it.
Reform is attractive to a lot of people, mostly disaffection conservatives.
Maybe the UK equivalent of the 'crazification factor' in the US, coined back in 2005 by a political blogger. On both left and right, or community based. E.g in NI MPs are elected that don't go to Parliament which is on the face of it irrational. The party scored double-digit vote shares in both Wellingborough and Kingswood, matching the levels it has been polling nationally. Are they really all conspiracy theory believers? Think about it.
Reform is attractive to a lot of people, mostly disaffection conservatives.
Tyrone: Obama vs. Alan Keyes. Keyes was from out of state, so you can eliminate any established political base; both candidates were black, so you can factor out racism; and Keyes was plainly, obviously, completely crazy. Bats
t crazy. Head-trauma crazy. But 27% of the population of Illinois voted for him. They put party identification, personal prejudice, whatever ahead of rational judgement. Hell, even like 5% of Democrats voted for him. That's crazy behaviour. I think you have to assume a 27% Crazification Factor in any population.Pan Pan Pan said:
tangerine_sedge said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
tangerine_sedge said:
andyA700 said:
tangerine_sedge said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
We have had labour, and tory governments since the last war, and neither have been any good for the working people of the UK.
You must have missed the bit where they set up the Welfare state, massively improved the housing stock, improved working conditions in every industry through various workplace acts, and ensured that everyone was eligible for holidays/sick pay/maternity pay/minimum pay and redundancy conditions and pay.But other than that, what have the
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_parli...
Anyway, I posted that response due to PPPs absurd attempt at proclaiming "they're all the same" (obviously to imply that Reform will be different), when it's clear that conditions for the working person have significantly improved since WW2.
However since the tories have been in office, for longer than labour, since WW2, this must largely be down to tory administrations.
The truly absurd, is you believing that labour will be A: better than the tories, and B: better than new/old/new labour etc.
You really have got a bad case of totally red tinted, blinkered tribalitis, if you believe that `This' time labour will be better. That is exactly the same as thinking that `next' time it is the tories who will be better. Not to mention insanity, since the true sign of insanity, is doing the same thing, over and over again, yet somehow expecting a different result, which is `exactly' what you are doing.
Anyway, it's hardly tribalitis when I've voted for 2 different parties in GEs (Tory & Libdems) and only ever voted Labour once (in the last local election). I certainly don't think Labour will solve all our ills, but Reform are not a serious party and seems to be full of racists.
It is your blind belief, that if we get rid of the disastrous tories and replace it the equally disastrous labour party it will all be better, when history, and common sense makes it clear it will just be more of the same.
As for reform, I know next to nothing about them' but I certainly cannot take what appears to be `your' massively biased view of them as being anywhere near accurate.
President Merkin said:
crankedup5 said:
Excellent demonstration failure by Tory/Labour Governments over the past 50 years that these issues have still not been adequately addressed.
More like an excellent demonstration of the efficacy of successive governments at keeping hate filled bigots in their little boxes and long may it continue. cheesejunkie said:
Pan Pan Pan has views. Many I disagree with.
I'll say one thing about Reform UK and leave it there. I used to live in Northern Ireland. They've a party pact with (in my opinion) one of the most bigoted parties there. I wouldn't vote for them if they begged me to. I've seen their true colours.
On policy, they're offering nothing.
On party, they're not even a party, they're a private enterprise with shareholders.
On reality their desire to destroy the tories is something I'll not prevent them from doing but I don't fancy their chances.
The tories still being in power when most of the country doesn't want them is the symptom of all that's wrong. Reform offering competition isn't. They're scum but they're not the problem.
I'm curious. What party have they aligned with? The DUP would be my guess. I'll say one thing about Reform UK and leave it there. I used to live in Northern Ireland. They've a party pact with (in my opinion) one of the most bigoted parties there. I wouldn't vote for them if they begged me to. I've seen their true colours.
On policy, they're offering nothing.
On party, they're not even a party, they're a private enterprise with shareholders.
On reality their desire to destroy the tories is something I'll not prevent them from doing but I don't fancy their chances.
The tories still being in power when most of the country doesn't want them is the symptom of all that's wrong. Reform offering competition isn't. They're scum but they're not the problem.
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