Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?

Thursday 25th April

chrispmartha said:

So as I suspected he's not read the article properly

That's quite something. Three staunchly anti-immigration posters harpooned by their own complete and total lack of knowledge on the subject in as many pages. It's almost like these people have been whipped up into an uninformed frenzy by right-wing agitants.

chrispmartha

15,501 posts

130 months

Thursday 25th April

CraigyMc said:

chrispmartha said:

crankedup5 said:

chrispmartha said:

crankedup5 said:

Noted the complete lack of debate arising from the fact s regarding lack of infrastructure, including housing. You are large on stats and politicking, not so much in acknowledging or even making any attempts to offer resolutions.
You must have missed the massive influx of refugees I mentioned, 650,000 + in one year.
Small boat arrivals are a major political issue, it’s why Government has put in so much political capital into addressing the issue, without success. It’s why Starmer has already announced his ‘plans’ to ‘smash the people trafficking gangs’, political bulls

t of course.

650,000 refugees in one year?

Opps, my mistake it’s only 504,000 from Ukraine and Hong Kong + others from who knows where from. I read the info’ in ‘The Guardian’.

Is it? In one year?

Got the link?

He'll be talking about this article from 2022. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/24/uk...

"The increase stems from a rise in visas for foreign nationals to live, study and work in the UK, which exceeded 1 million for the first time in the year to June."

9,692 posts

36 months

Thursday 25th April

Dave200 said:

Baroque attacks said:

Dave200 said:

Jordie Barretts sock said:

Dagnir said:

Nope, I just dont accept the framing....I class 99% of them as economic migrants because that's what they are. They are here for a better life because that's what they've heard you can get once you're in the UK.

I'm not dense enough to allow legal obfuscation and word games detract from facts.

We're not next to a warzone and no one is being persecuted by the French....as far as I'm concerned asylum seekers and any other immigrants all have the same right to live here....none whatsoever.

If we choose to help some people in genuine need, then absolutely great but we are being taken advantage of on a HUGE scale.

I really hate to disappoint you, not. I am an immigrant and have the right to live here. Your xenophobia and bigotry seems to be blinding you to the law.

Are you really suggesting that legal immigrants have no right to be here? Would you be happy if that was reciprocated across the world? How do you think that would pan out?

Your post is offensive.

You're making a huge assumption that he's thought that far ahead in his masterplan.

A lot of it is likely based on fear.

Which right-wing agitators like Reform and GBNews prey on, feeding them misleading stats like the one about 1.1m immigrants in that hope that it leads them down a path of putting their faith in right-wing parties to solve. It's just sad.

‘ The Guardian’ also reported a total number of migrants entering million, but it was over a period of around two years or so. Where do these people find homes when the young indigenous people cannot afford a home?

Dave200

3,985 posts

221 months

Thursday 25th April

chrispmartha said:

CraigyMc said:

chrispmartha said:

crankedup5 said:

chrispmartha said:

crankedup5 said:

Noted the complete lack of debate arising from the fact s regarding lack of infrastructure, including housing. You are large on stats and politicking, not so much in acknowledging or even making any attempts to offer resolutions.
You must have missed the massive influx of refugees I mentioned, 650,000 + in one year.
Small boat arrivals are a major political issue, it’s why Government has put in so much political capital into addressing the issue, without success. It’s why Starmer has already announced his ‘plans’ to ‘smash the people trafficking gangs’, political bulls

t of course.

650,000 refugees in one year?

Opps, my mistake it’s only 504,000 from Ukraine and Hong Kong + others from who knows where from. I read the info’ in ‘The Guardian’.

Is it? In one year?

Got the link?

He'll be talking about this article from 2022. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/24/uk...

"The increase stems from a rise in visas for foreign nationals to live, study and work in the UK, which exceeded 1 million for the first time in the year to June."

I'm personally incensed by these people coming in and contributing to our economy. I don't know about you.

Dave200

3,985 posts

221 months

Thursday 25th April

crankedup5 said:

Dave200 said:

Baroque attacks said:

Dave200 said:

Jordie Barretts sock said:

Dagnir said:

Nope, I just dont accept the framing....I class 99% of them as economic migrants because that's what they are. They are here for a better life because that's what they've heard you can get once you're in the UK.

I'm not dense enough to allow legal obfuscation and word games detract from facts.

We're not next to a warzone and no one is being persecuted by the French....as far as I'm concerned asylum seekers and any other immigrants all have the same right to live here....none whatsoever.

If we choose to help some people in genuine need, then absolutely great but we are being taken advantage of on a HUGE scale.

I really hate to disappoint you, not. I am an immigrant and have the right to live here. Your xenophobia and bigotry seems to be blinding you to the law.

Are you really suggesting that legal immigrants have no right to be here? Would you be happy if that was reciprocated across the world? How do you think that would pan out?

Your post is offensive.

You're making a huge assumption that he's thought that far ahead in his masterplan.

A lot of it is likely based on fear.

Which right-wing agitators like Reform and GBNews prey on, feeding them misleading stats like the one about 1.1m immigrants in that hope that it leads them down a path of putting their faith in right-wing parties to solve. It's just sad.

‘ The Guardian’ also reported a total number of migrants entering million, but it was over a period of around two years or so. Where do these people find homes when the young indigenous people cannot afford a home?

No acknowledgement of the fact that you've just completely made up a datapoint to support your ill-informed view? None at all?

9,692 posts

36 months

Thursday 25th April

chrispmartha said:

CraigyMc said:

chrispmartha said:

crankedup5 said:

chrispmartha said:

crankedup5 said:

Noted the complete lack of debate arising from the fact s regarding lack of infrastructure, including housing. You are large on stats and politicking, not so much in acknowledging or even making any attempts to offer resolutions.
You must have missed the massive influx of refugees I mentioned, 650,000 + in one year.
Small boat arrivals are a major political issue, it’s why Government has put in so much political capital into addressing the issue, without success. It’s why Starmer has already announced his ‘plans’ to ‘smash the people trafficking gangs’, political bulls

t of course.

650,000 refugees in one year?

Opps, my mistake it’s only 504,000 from Ukraine and Hong Kong + others from who knows where from. I read the info’ in ‘The Guardian’.

Is it? In one year?

Got the link?

He'll be talking about this article from 2022. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/24/uk...

"The increase stems from a rise in visas for foreign nationals to live, study and work in the UK, which exceeded 1 million for the first time in the year to June."

Yes that’s what I read in the same newspaper. Sunak announced that this number is to high and simply not sustainable. He obviously knew that incoming flak would be coming his way regarding those numbers.

chrispmartha

15,501 posts

130 months

Thursday 25th April

crankedup5 said:

chrispmartha said:

CraigyMc said:

chrispmartha said:

crankedup5 said:

chrispmartha said:

crankedup5 said:

Noted the complete lack of debate arising from the fact s regarding lack of infrastructure, including housing. You are large on stats and politicking, not so much in acknowledging or even making any attempts to offer resolutions.
You must have missed the massive influx of refugees I mentioned, 650,000 + in one year.
Small boat arrivals are a major political issue, it’s why Government has put in so much political capital into addressing the issue, without success. It’s why Starmer has already announced his ‘plans’ to ‘smash the people trafficking gangs’, political bulls

t of course.

650,000 refugees in one year?

Opps, my mistake it’s only 504,000 from Ukraine and Hong Kong + others from who knows where from. I read the info’ in ‘The Guardian’.

Is it? In one year?

Got the link?

He'll be talking about this article from 2022. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/24/uk...

"The increase stems from a rise in visas for foreign nationals to live, study and work in the UK, which exceeded 1 million for the first time in the year to June."

Yes that’s what I read in the same newspaper. Sunak announced that this number is to high and simply not sustainable. He obviously knew that incoming flak would be coming his way regarding those numbers.

You may have read it, but you clearly didn't understand it.

cheesejunkie

2,608 posts

18 months

Thursday 25th April

Dave200 said:

I'm personally incensed by these people coming in and contributing to our economy. I don't know about you.

How dare they. Livid, gammon, purple in the face. How dare they come here and work when we've loads of people not working.

My ruddy jowls are vibrating at the very thought of it.

I don't have ruddy jowls.

Immigration numbers are heavily skewed by how they're measured and I've no problem with students coming here. I've no problem with anyone coming here. But the student numbers allow all sorts of statistical manipulation.

Indigenous is the words of a racist, I'll never be convinced otherwise.

Jinx

11,394 posts

261 months

Thursday 25th April

Dave200 said:

That's only the same thing if you're desperate to defend the indefensible. We're talking about asylum seekers here, and the costs of housing them, as that's a key tenet of the Reform/Reclaim/UKIP manifesto. The article you've linked contains a complaint about "Eastern Europeans moving here" which at the time would have been completely legal under EU law, and absolutely in no way whatsoever related to asylum seekers. But you knew that, and were desperate to use the word "gaslighting".

Someone complaining about immigration 14 years ago being called a bigot but this is not the right sort of immigration to be complaining about and therefore isn't the same in your head?
if you can't see parallels then I suspect you are as willfully blind as a post office boss.

swisstoni

17,041 posts

280 months

Thursday 25th April

valiant said:

swisstoni said:

valiant said:

swisstoni said:

Why should they claim asylum in UK?

Why shouldn't they?

Because they are coming from France. Which looked pretty safe a few weeks ago when there were queues of vehicles at Dover waiting to get into it.

So by that metric we should take in zero asylum seekers? After all there are plenty of safe countries before they reach us and we should also be sending all those Ukrainians back? Poland is a perfectly safe country after all...

If UK wanted to go full BNP, yes. Anyone can claim asylum wherever they like. But unless they have come straight from where they are claiming asylum, that claim can be refused.

IMHO UK should always take in a share of valid asylum seekers as a fully fledged top 10 world economy.
This could be in agreement with other European countries where they make landfall.

But should not take in anyone who chooses to come from the safety of France because they fancy UK more. They have immediately declared themselves economic migrants imho.

I think Starmer will sign up to some kind of agreement after the GE. But I also imagine that he will be royally stiched up in the process. Meaning that UK’s quota will not take into account the current population density compared to the likes of France, Germany and Spain and that we will contribute to EU coffers for the privilege

On the upside, at least this influx can be planned for.
And any who want to continue to pitch up here in boats can be returned to the EU ‘pot’.
You will get that included in the final deal won’t you Keir?

Otherwise we will be taking the quota and the crew who can’t or won’t qualify for genuine asylum processing.

Rufus Stone

6,289 posts

57 months

Thursday 25th April

swisstoni said:

But should not take in anyone who chooses to come from the safety of France because they fancy UK more. They have immediately declared themselves economic migrants imho.

What about the country they stepped out of and in to France, why should France take them?

9,692 posts

36 months

Thursday 25th April

Dave200 said:

crankedup5 said:

Dave200 said:

Baroque attacks said:

Dave200 said:

Jordie Barretts sock said:

Dagnir said:

Nope, I just dont accept the framing....I class 99% of them as economic migrants because that's what they are. They are here for a better life because that's what they've heard you can get once you're in the UK.

I'm not dense enough to allow legal obfuscation and word games detract from facts.

We're not next to a warzone and no one is being persecuted by the French....as far as I'm concerned asylum seekers and any other immigrants all have the same right to live here....none whatsoever.

If we choose to help some people in genuine need, then absolutely great but we are being taken advantage of on a HUGE scale.

I really hate to disappoint you, not. I am an immigrant and have the right to live here. Your xenophobia and bigotry seems to be blinding you to the law.

Are you really suggesting that legal immigrants have no right to be here? Would you be happy if that was reciprocated across the world? How do you think that would pan out?

Your post is offensive.

You're making a huge assumption that he's thought that far ahead in his masterplan.

A lot of it is likely based on fear.

Which right-wing agitators like Reform and GBNews prey on, feeding them misleading stats like the one about 1.1m immigrants in that hope that it leads them down a path of putting their faith in right-wing parties to solve. It's just sad.

‘ The Guardian’ also reported a total number of migrants entering million, but it was over a period of around two years or so. Where do these people find homes when the young indigenous people cannot afford a home?

No acknowledgement of the fact that you've just completely made up a datapoint to support your ill-informed view? None at all?

Except I have of course made an acknowledgement on facts, well if we can call The Guardian reports as facts.

9,692 posts

36 months

Thursday 25th April

swisstoni said:

valiant said:

swisstoni said:

valiant said:

swisstoni said:

Why should they claim asylum in UK?

Why shouldn't they?

Because they are coming from France. Which looked pretty safe a few weeks ago when there were queues of vehicles at Dover waiting to get into it.

So by that metric we should take in zero asylum seekers? After all there are plenty of safe countries before they reach us and we should also be sending all those Ukrainians back? Poland is a perfectly safe country after all...

If UK wanted to go full BNP, yes. Anyone can claim asylum wherever they like. But unless they have come straight from where they are claiming asylum, that claim can be refused.

IMHO UK should always take in a share of valid asylum seekers as a fully fledged top 10 world economy.
This could be in agreement with other European countries where they make landfall.

But should not take in anyone who chooses to come from the safety of France because they fancy UK more. They have immediately declared themselves economic migrants imho.

I think Starmer will sign up to some kind of agreement after the GE. But I also imagine that he will be royally stiched up in the process. Meaning that UK’s quota will not take into account the current population density compared to the likes of France, Germany and Spain and that we will contribute to EU coffers for the privilege

On the upside, at least this influx can be planned for.
And any who want to continue to pitch up here in boats can be returned to the EU ‘pot’.
You will get that included in the final deal won’t you Keir?

Otherwise we will be taking the quota and the crew who can’t or won’t qualify for genuine asylum processing.

Nothing in that I disagree with.
And Om still waiting for the ‘oh so offended’ to answer the questions regarding our inadequate infrastructure and how it can possibly be sustainable to allow such high levels of migration.
BTW migration watch is full of interesting, and in some instances, disturbing facts and figures.

Edited by crankedup5 on Thursday 25th April 16:44

chrispmartha

15,501 posts

130 months

Thursday 25th April

crankedup5 said:

Except I have of course made an acknowledgement on facts, well if we can call The Guardian reports as facts.

No you haven’t, your claim was totally factually incorrect.