Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?
Discussion
captain_cynic said:
Labour weren't a bunch of racists in the 1920's... That would have been Mosley's lot if we're talking about the 1920s... Well, they didn't amount to anything either.
Lets stop pretending that Reform is anything other than Farage's latest grift shall we.
Farage always reminds me of Pauline Hanson (famous Australian Racist who once ran for parliament) without Hanson's one redeeming quality. Knowing when she was beaten and to fk off. Farage has tried 7 times for a seat in parliament and failed each and every time... What makes you think this time it'll be different.
Farage didn’t succeed in getting elected as an MP but he was spectacularly successful at getting us out of the EU. Brexit would never have happened without him.Lets stop pretending that Reform is anything other than Farage's latest grift shall we.
Farage always reminds me of Pauline Hanson (famous Australian Racist who once ran for parliament) without Hanson's one redeeming quality. Knowing when she was beaten and to fk off. Farage has tried 7 times for a seat in parliament and failed each and every time... What makes you think this time it'll be different.
And now we're out and it's all gone to dogst rather than hold his hands up and say perhaps it wasn't such a good idea he's onto the next grift which is Reform.
There's section of society who are very malleable and who are always convinced something or someone else is to blame for their problems and if they can just fix that things will be better.
Except they aren't and there's alway something else that needs fixing to make things better.
He really knows how to tap into that section of society.
There's section of society who are very malleable and who are always convinced something or someone else is to blame for their problems and if they can just fix that things will be better.
Except they aren't and there's alway something else that needs fixing to make things better.
He really knows how to tap into that section of society.
Blue62 said:
Colonel Cupcake said:
I wonder if there were people saying the same thing in the 1920s about Labour?
Labour formed their first government under Ramsey McDonald in 1924, sometime’s its better to say nothing at all than to remove all doubt. heebeegeetee said:
Wombat3 said:
119 said:
Dave200 said:
bad company said:
Dave200 said:
Does it not worry you to be so badly out of sync with what the majority of the country are voting for? Does it not make you question your motivations when the majority of under-50s would be more likely to vote for Labour than ANY of the other parties?
What worries me is the inevitability of Labour getting into power. A lot of those Labour voters aren’t old enough to remember the carnage from their previous periods in office.The problems are systemic, they are about attitude , culture, community, lack of social and personal responsibility and lack of ethics. No politicians really have the answer to solving those issues
Some splash the cash / eat the rich sticking plasters are only going to make those things worse, not better. Labour is also just as divisive as any other party, moreso on some ways.
The real problems are not about what or who is in parliament though, its the rest of the population that needs to take a good look at itself.
S600BSB said:
Wombat3 said:
chrispmartha said:
Wombat3 said:
chrispmartha said:
crankedup5 said:
Sums up the situation in U.K. perfectly, unfortunately. clip on BBC television news highlighted a young woman broadcasting her situation ‘ I suffer from anxiety therefore I cannot leave my house and go to work, I have to rely on benefits’.
If she is suffering from severe anxiety and sounds like it’s manifested itself as Agoraphobia what do you suggest she does?Mental health issue can be just as debilitating as physical health issues. Maybe if the health service hadn’t been broken she might be able to get better treatment.
What do you suggest we do about that?
Colonel Cupcake said:
wisbech said:
Colonel Cupcake said:
I wonder if there were people saying the same thing in the 1920s about Labour?
No, because in the 1920s Labour was already the second largest party (142 seats at the 1922 election, up from 57 from 1918) So they were already not a fringe party.If it makes you feel better, I wonder if there were people saying the same thing in the 1910s about Labour?
There wasn't full suffrage before WW1. Not even full male suffrage. There was no 'voter base' for Labour because the (large) part of the population that were in the labour movement couldn't vote. That was one of the things they were organising to change. There was no such single thing as 'The Labour Party' until after WW1 - before that it was a confederation of organisations, unions and various flavours of left-wing political parties. No one was saying that Labour was a wasted vote because most people who leaned Labour didn't have a vote to waste.
Even so, and despite their core demographic being largely excluded from the vote, the group that sat as 'Labour' in the Commons passed their first legislation in 1906, had over 40 MPs in 1910 - just a decade after the Labour Representation Committee had been formed - and had thousands of municipal and civic councillors and representatives across the country.
And all those organisations that made up (and would become part of) the Labour Party in the 1920s were part of - and aimed to represent - the huge organised labour movement of trade unions, friendly societies, co-operatives, mutuals, associations and progress organisations that counted millions of members.
Labour as a parliamentary party was the culmination of about a century of activity, not the starting point. And it grew out of an entirely new part of the population (the educated industrial working class) and aimed to add their representation to the existing system. Reform (et. al) are organisations that see themselves as the root of a project, not the flower (think why the Labour symbol is a rose...) and grow out of the manure of a collapsing political consensus.
chrispmartha said:
Douglas Quaid said:
chrispmartha said:
crankedup5 said:
Sums up the situation in U.K. perfectly, unfortunately. clip on BBC television news highlighted a young woman broadcasting her situation ‘ I suffer from anxiety therefore I cannot leave my house and go to work, I have to rely on benefits’.
If she is suffering from severe anxiety and sounds like it’s manifested itself as Agoraphobia what do you suggest she does?Mental health issue can be just as debilitating as physical health issues. Maybe if the health service hadn’t been broken she might be able to get better treatment.
Pretending mental health issues don’t exist is not a way to fix the issues.
What’s pathetic is the demonisation of people which is just a tactic from a failing government looking for others to blame to deflect from their incompetence.
Its the same breed of shyster that steals the charity collection cans of a shop counter that decides they are happy to have the rest of us support them. When looking for a way to make that happen claiming mental health issues has become the easy and almost unchallengable way to do it.
The worst part of that is that people who do this are stealing much needed resources from those that really need them.
But no doubt some people have genuine mental health issues and we need to find them and look after them.
However, there are others that need to get some perspective and toughen up a bit if they expect to be functioning adults. Maybe they do need a bit of help to get going but equally they need to understand that nobody owes them a living.
Undoubtedly then some of them are shysters and they are basically stealing from the rest of society.
It was ever thus but I don't think there is any doubt that the increased awareness about mental health is being taken advantage of.
Our (collective) problem is how to stop that both to redirect resources where they are really needed and then to get a reasonable contribution to society from those that have just decided they'd rather have a free ride.
bhstewie said:
....There's section of society who are very malleable and who are always convinced something or someone else is to blame for their problems and if they can just fix that things will be better....
Yep.Wombat3 said:
The problems are systemic, they are about attitude , culture, community, lack of social and personal responsibility and lack of ethics. No politicians really have the answer to solving those issues...The real problems are not about what or who is in parliament though, its the rest of the population that needs to take a good look at itself.
Naturally, Onebat's fantasy English English exceptionalism excludes him & any of his pals from the conclusion above. It's us, but not me though. Bag of ste.Dave200 said:
crankedup5 said:
Sums up the situation in U.K. perfectly, unfortunately. clip on BBC television news highlighted a young woman broadcasting her situation ‘ I suffer from anxiety therefore I cannot leave my house and go to work, I have to rely on benefits’.
This explains so much, and is a perfect example of the social disenfranchisement that frauds like Reform are trying to tap into.chrispmartha said:
crankedup5 said:
Sums up the situation in U.K. perfectly, unfortunately. clip on BBC television news highlighted a young woman broadcasting her situation ‘ I suffer from anxiety therefore I cannot leave my house and go to work, I have to rely on benefits’.
If she is suffering from severe anxiety and sounds like it’s manifested itself as Agoraphobia what do you suggest she does?Mental health issue can be just as debilitating as physical health issues. Maybe if the health service hadn’t been broken she might be able to get better treatment.
Mental health treatment has been the cinderella service of the NHS certainly over the past 50 years.
heebeegeetee said:
Wombat3 said:
Tired old trope. The NHS gets more money than its ever had and much more than we can really afford.
No it doesn't, not even close. The one thing that isn't broken with this country is the amount we spend on healthcare, it's not even close to being highest or too high.crankedup5 said:
Sums up the situation in U.K. perfectly, unfortunately. clip on BBC television news highlighted a young woman broadcasting her situation ‘ I suffer from anxiety therefore I cannot leave my house and go to work, I have to rely on benefits’.
That's one person, in a population of @ 68 million.I'll remind you that there are countless people on benefits yet work full time, due to business and business people refusing to stand on their own two feet and who also rely on benefits. It's hardly capitalism when it's subsidised by the taxpayer.
I'll also remind you that the Tory Party has spaffed millions and billions amongst the profound corruption which has thrived on it's watch.
eta the BBC program also said that mental health issues is ‘the new bad back syndrome’.
Horrible for genuine sufferers and an easy ‘I can’t work’ excuse for people intending to live off benefits.
Edited by crankedup5 on Saturday 27th April 19:57
valiant said:
Colonel Cupcake said:
No doubt about you with your superfluous apostrophe.
Ha!Can’t attack the argument so you attack the man.
No doubt about you either squire.
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