Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party? (Vol. 2)

Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party? (Vol. 2)

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Discussion

JagLover

42,453 posts

236 months

Thursday 25th April
quotequote all
768 said:
philv said:
It's a train.
Other than making them all like the hogwarts express, how much more appealing can it get?
They belong with horses. Put them in a field for niche enthusiasts.
Trains have their place but as a complement to motoring rather than being an alternative for most journeys. Where they are useful, such as for commuting or city breaks, they will always have a role, at least with today's technologies.

vaud

50,610 posts

156 months

Thursday 25th April
quotequote all
768 said:
They belong with horses. Put them in a field for niche enthusiasts.
Can you imagine the traffic chaos without trains?

1.6bn passenger journeys per year?

Our local branch line into Leeds is reliable, clean, and takes <20 mins for a journey that is at least 45 min by car (1hr in rush hour). Clean, electric, wifi, multiple trains per hour.

Yeah, that's just like a horse.

Mr Penguin

1,243 posts

40 months

Thursday 25th April
quotequote all
This is how much road space it takes one bus load of people to travel with bikes or cars. We do need public transport to make cities function, even if we are just hoping everyone else uses them and not ourselves.



Edited by Mr Penguin on Thursday 25th April 12:16

hidetheelephants

24,476 posts

194 months

Thursday 25th April
quotequote all
I suspect the missing traffic is mostly because industrial action has dragged on for most of the post-plague period, solve that and traffic will rise back up to the point where people will start moaning about services being too full again and then there will be less political pain about spending money on capacity growth projects deferred for the last 50 years.

119

6,392 posts

37 months

Thursday 25th April
quotequote all
In my opinion there are a huge amount of more important things to focus money on.

hidetheelephants

24,476 posts

194 months

Thursday 25th April
quotequote all
119 said:
In my opinion there are a huge amount of more important things to focus money on.
You'll be relieved to know that most of it is already nationalised, really only the rolling stock leasing companies remain in private hands, so no extra money involved.

vaud

50,610 posts

156 months

Thursday 25th April
quotequote all
Mr Penguin said:
This is how much road space it takes one bus load of people to travel with bikes or cars. We do need public transport to make cities function, even if we are just hoping everyone else uses them and not ourselves.
We need them to connect cities as well. I could drive to central London but it's way quicker to go into Leeds and get the train. Plus I can get some work done on the way, work, have a beer with a colleague and be legal on the way back.

I'm no train spotter but I much prefer it to driving on a motorway or taking a short haul flight.

768

13,707 posts

97 months

Thursday 25th April
quotequote all
Mr Penguin said:
This is how much road space it takes one bus load of people to travel with bikes or cars. We do need public transport to make cities function, even if we are just hoping everyone else uses them and not ourselves.

Now do one showing the train plus the length of track in front and behind that can't be used.

Mr Penguin

1,243 posts

40 months

Thursday 25th April
quotequote all
768 said:
Now do one showing the train plus the length of track in front and behind that can't be used.
Even better because it doesn't clog the roads up with unnecessary buses.

C4ME

1,171 posts

212 months

Thursday 25th April
quotequote all
768 said:
Mr Penguin said:
This is how much road space it takes one bus load of people to travel with bikes or cars. We do need public transport to make cities function, even if we are just hoping everyone else uses them and not ourselves.

Now do one showing the train plus the length of track in front and behind that can't be used.
And explain how there are 60 cars in the left picture (therefore a minimum of 60 people being transported) and how those 60+ people fit on that single decker bus in the right picture. At least make the comparison accurate.

Mr Penguin

1,243 posts

40 months

Thursday 25th April
quotequote all
C4ME said:
And explain how there are 60 cars in the left picture (therefore a minimum of 60 people being transported) and how those 60+ people fit on that single decker bus in the right picture. At least make the comparison accurate.
People can stand in buses but you can also pretend it's a double decker.

119

6,392 posts

37 months

Thursday 25th April
quotequote all
hidetheelephants said:
119 said:
In my opinion there are a huge amount of more important things to focus money on.
You'll be relieved to know that most of it is already nationalised, really only the rolling stock leasing companies remain in private hands, so no extra money involved.
So what's the point then?


vaud

50,610 posts

156 months

Thursday 25th April
quotequote all
119 said:
So what's the point then?
Easy policy that looks very "Labour" to woo the left of the party.

hidetheelephants

24,476 posts

194 months

Thursday 25th April
quotequote all
vaud said:
119 said:
So what's the point then?
Easy policy that looks very "Labour" to woo the left of the party.
Mostly that. I'd be interested what they say with regard to the ROSCOs as they are parasites and give no value at all, but I can't say it keeps me up at night.

S600BSB

4,697 posts

107 months

Thursday 25th April
quotequote all
Trains are a wonderful way of travelling. Unfortunately, as with most public services and utilities, we are just very poor at designing and operating them in the interests of the public. The rest of Europe are generally better. I jumped on a tgv in Paris the other day and was in Geneva 3 hours later for a meeting. Then on to Verona. All on time, properly staffed and clean etc. Sadly, very different to broken Britain.

98elise

26,646 posts

162 months

Thursday 25th April
quotequote all
Mr Penguin said:
This is how much road space it takes one bus load of people to travel with bikes or cars. We do need public transport to make cities function, even if we are just hoping everyone else uses them and not ourselves.



Edited by Mr Penguin on Thursday 25th April 12:16
Why did they have 1 person per car, but a full bus? How many buses do you need to get those people to where they are actually going?

Getting to my local town is a 10 minute drive, or a 45 minute bus ride. The bus actually leaves our local going in the wrong direction! I often see it struggling up the hill on the way out with maybe one passenger on it.

NomduJour

19,144 posts

260 months

Thursday 25th April
quotequote all
S600BSB said:
Trains are a wonderful way of travelling. Unfortunately, as with most public services and utilities, we are just very poor at designing and operating them in the interests of the public. The rest of Europe are generally better. I jumped on a tgv in Paris the other day and was in Geneva 3 hours later for a meeting. Then on to Verona. All on time, properly staffed and clean etc. Sadly, very different to broken Britain
How much more tax are you prepared to pay to subsidise them?

Mr Penguin

1,243 posts

40 months

Thursday 25th April
quotequote all
98elise said:
Why did they have 1 person per car, but a full bus? How many buses do you need to get those people to where they are actually going?

Getting to my local town is a 10 minute drive, or a 45 minute bus ride. The bus actually leaves our local going in the wrong direction! I often see it struggling up the hill on the way out with maybe one passenger on it.
I think we both know that a bus with a reasonable number of people will take up less space than cars.
One Fiat 500 - 3.6m long, 4 people
One bus - 12m long
People needed for the bus to use less space per person than a full Fiat 500 - 14


hidetheelephants

24,476 posts

194 months

Thursday 25th April
quotequote all
98elise said:
Why did they have 1 person per car, but a full bus? How many buses do you need to get those people to where they are actually going?

Getting to my local town is a 10 minute drive, or a 45 minute bus ride. The bus actually leaves our local going in the wrong direction! I often see it struggling up the hill on the way out with maybe one passenger on it.
Occasionally I wonder if rural transport would work better if buses just ran at commuter time; I live about 15 miles from the nearest railway station and the bus starts here and stops there and vice versa, but outside rushhour when it's often standing room only it's lucky if there's more than 2 people and a dog on. What if us simple country folk were offered one subsidised cab round trip a week instead of having a bus carrying empty seats about? It needs a spreadsheet and I can't be bothered.

Randy Winkman

16,189 posts

190 months

Thursday 25th April
quotequote all
Mr Penguin said:
98elise said:
Why did they have 1 person per car, but a full bus? How many buses do you need to get those people to where they are actually going?

Getting to my local town is a 10 minute drive, or a 45 minute bus ride. The bus actually leaves our local going in the wrong direction! I often see it struggling up the hill on the way out with maybe one passenger on it.
I think we both know that a bus with a reasonable number of people will take up less space than cars.
One Fiat 500 - 3.6m long, 4 people
One bus - 12m long
People needed for the bus to use less space per person than a full Fiat 500 - 14
Why is the car in your comparison full?