Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party? (Vol. 2)
Discussion
crankedup5 said:
borcy said:
crankedup5 said:
borcy said:
crankedup5 said:
SKS a announces his ambition to raise the defence budget to 2.5% and his unerring support for the nuclear deterrent. No surprise to read of the disdain from the corbynites (momentum) once again raising their voices getting very twitchy over their leaders ‘U’ turn’ since becoming the Labour leader. Thought they may have waited until Labour are in power, nope, not a bit of it, brother.
Who in the labour party is getting twitchy over potential defence spending?
borcy said:
crankedup5 said:
borcy said:
crankedup5 said:
borcy said:
crankedup5 said:
SKS a announces his ambition to raise the defence budget to 2.5% and his unerring support for the nuclear deterrent. No surprise to read of the disdain from the corbynites (momentum) once again raising their voices getting very twitchy over their leaders ‘U’ turn’ since becoming the Labour leader. Thought they may have waited until Labour are in power, nope, not a bit of it, brother.
Who in the labour party is getting twitchy over potential defence spending?
crankedup5 said:
Well Abbott was mentioned along with corbyn, whoever they are.
Two people who aren't in the PLP anymore but still serve as boogeymen for right-wingers.Corbyn ran two manifestos committing to renewal and maintenance of Trident and keeping defence spending at a minimum of 2% GDP as per our NATO requirements, by the way.
So this is mostly messaging on Starmer's part. The spending increase is perfectly sensible in the changed strategic outlook since the last GE, but the Trident stuff is pure pantomime - "I believe extra specially oh so much in
hidetheelephants said:
crankedup5 said:
Well Abbott was mentioned along with corbyn, whoever they are.
No one here has mentioned them except you and you haven't deigned to link to whatever source you have, not that it matters as they are not in the Labour Party.hidetheelephants said:
No one here has mentioned them except you and you haven't deigned to link to whatever source you have, not that it matters as they are not in the Labour Party.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Abbott"She remains a member of the Labour Party, while sitting in the House of Commons as an independent, having had the whip suspended in April 2023."
crankedup5 said:
hidetheelephants said:
crankedup5 said:
Well Abbott was mentioned along with corbyn, whoever they are.
No one here has mentioned them except you and you haven't deigned to link to whatever source you have, not that it matters as they are not in the Labour Party.borcy said:
crankedup5 said:
hidetheelephants said:
crankedup5 said:
Well Abbott was mentioned along with corbyn, whoever they are.
No one here has mentioned them except you and you haven't deigned to link to whatever source you have, not that it matters as they are not in the Labour Party.Alternatively try GBNews as they air stuff BBC seem to avoid.
crankedup5 said:
It won’t be run for a while now as the defence budgets propaganda has been aired. Next time it is close to the top of the pre election Labour agenda expect to hear mutterings from those same anti Starmerites.
Alternatively try GBNews as they air stuff BBC seem to avoid.
I'll wait for the pre election agenda, I'm sure the mutterings of two ex labours MPa made 4 months ago will be a key battle ground area that we as a country will turn to again and again. Alternatively try GBNews as they air stuff BBC seem to avoid.
I don't watch the BBC tbh.
I'm sue GBNews viewers found it interesting. Both of them.
2xChevrons said:
Two people who aren't in the PLP anymore but still serve as boogeymen for right-wingers.
Corbyn ran two manifestos committing to renewal and maintenance of Trident and keeping defence spending at a minimum of 2% GDP as per our NATO requirements, by the way.
So this is mostly messaging on Starmer's part. The spending increase is perfectly sensible in the changed strategic outlook since the last GE, but the Trident stuff is pure pantomime - "I believe extra specially oh so much infairies the nuclear deterrent!!!" It's functionally no different to his predecessor or any other major politician.
Nobody really thought that Corbyn would actually use the nukes (which makes it worthless since the whole point is is to make other countries think we might) and few thought he was genuinely on Britain's side in foreign affairs, so Starmer is differentiating himself from that by being enthusiastic about the deterrent. It's also worth remembering that despite the hard left wanting to abolish the deterrent, Labour governments have historically been very committed to it.Corbyn ran two manifestos committing to renewal and maintenance of Trident and keeping defence spending at a minimum of 2% GDP as per our NATO requirements, by the way.
So this is mostly messaging on Starmer's part. The spending increase is perfectly sensible in the changed strategic outlook since the last GE, but the Trident stuff is pure pantomime - "I believe extra specially oh so much in
Corbyn and Abbott are more than bogey men because while Starmer is not one of them, the SCG has been growing for decades, incoming MPs will be less and less likely to be centrists (because of the people who join political parties), and the members who voted for Corbyn are still there. It will be even worse if Labour do win a big majority because they will end up with MPs who nobody expected to win and those are usually terrible. Those points all apply to the Conservatives as well.
crankedup5 said:
hidetheelephants said:
crankedup5 said:
Well Abbott was mentioned along with corbyn, whoever they are.
No one here has mentioned them except you and you haven't deigned to link to whatever source you have, not that it matters as they are not in the Labour Party.hidetheelephants said:
They're still not Labour MPs and you've still not linked to a source. I'm not wading through hours of BBC news to find a 60 second item on what people who aren't Labour MPs think about SKS's defence policy.
Did you miss my link on Abbott? She is a member of the Labour party, she has lost the whip.vaud said:
hidetheelephants said:
They're still not Labour MPs and you've still not linked to a source. I'm not wading through hours of BBC news to find a 60 second item on what people who aren't Labour MPs think about SKS's defence policy.
Did you miss my link on Abbott? She is a member of the Labour party, she has lost the whip.
hidetheelephants said:
vaud said:
hidetheelephants said:
They're still not Labour MPs and you've still not linked to a source. I'm not wading through hours of BBC news to find a 60 second item on what people who aren't Labour MPs think about SKS's defence policy.
Did you miss my link on Abbott? She is a member of the Labour party, she has lost the whip.
Make your mind up.
b
hstewie said:
A more careful analysis of the polls would show a lot of risk for Labour, IMO.hstewie said:- Most people don't pay attention to anything political related until the campaign actually starts, so I don't see the polls changing substantially in that time.
- Most Reform voters will go to the Conservatives when it actually comes to an election because they will trust Labour to deliver on their policies even less.
- The hard left can cause mischief, absolutely hate Starmer, and are stupid enough to do it.
- Labour haven't really set out a stall beyond "not the Tories" so will alienate some of their support who put their own opinions onto Starmer.
- Tory incompetence is priced in, Labour incompetence is not but that will start to come out when some of the shadow cabinet actually have to campaign.
- 2019 Tory voters are largely saying "Don't know" but most of those will go back to the Tories.
- The ME is a tinderbox. It wouldn't take much to make it flare up even more than it already is - imagine someone's brakes fail causing them to crash into a market stall, killing someone, which causes a riot. No intent is needed (although it is there on both sides) but it would escalate the Israel-Palestine war and that is a painful division for Labour.
- Starmer and Labour are not popular either. People say that the British system is not proportional but I think it does a good job of delivering the result that the electorate wants, which is to say that if the electorate doesn't really trust either option then the end result will be close.
- Labour have some terrible policies which will cost them votes, VAT on private schools will drive many parents back to the Conservatives or make them hesitant to vote if they are natural Labour voters. Even if the actual financial impact is quite small, people are worried about it.
- Conservatives have a boat load of cash to spend on the election and have quietly raised the limit.
- Labour lost a lot of good, experienced candidates in safe seats in both 2015 and 2019 and the lack of experience and fewer sitting MPs ready to campaign in other seats will hurt them.
- The last two elections have seen huge changes in the six months before the election - June 2019 polling showed Labour comfortably ahead of Conservatives and BXP slightly ahead / May 2017 showed Labour being 20 points behind the Conservatives less than a month before the election.
- I think there are a lot of Labour voters/members assuming they will get a big majority and once the polls start to narrow (as they always do) their confidence will shake and momentum will start to shift.
Away from all these polls and fellow posters slagging each other off I found this.
And it's more scary than most headlines. If they (whoever they are ) are able to clone a living politician then where will it end.
I've not read the article myself just seen the headline
Rayner’s former aide ‘contradicts her housing claims in police statement’ (cloned)
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/rayner-s-for...
And it's more scary than most headlines. If they (whoever they are ) are able to clone a living politician then where will it end.
I've not read the article myself just seen the headline
Rayner’s former aide ‘contradicts her housing claims in police statement’ (cloned)
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/rayner-s-for...
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