Michaela School - court case
Discussion
QuickQuack said:
Agreed. Vexatious complainants should be told to f*** off elsewhere, and further children from the same family definitely shouldn't be allowed into the same school. Anybody who believes in sky fairies with such fervour is a moron. Besides, Islam specifically allows prayers to be missed then caught up later in the day, so the 5 times a day prayer thing doesn't have to be as strict as some of these a
holes make it out to be; they clearly just want to cause trouble.
I wouldn't put it quite so strongly myself, but my understanding is the same as yours; Midday prayers may be deferred to later in the day, i.e. after school.holes make it out to be; they clearly just want to cause trouble. There may however be some issue regarding Friday midday prayers?
This was recently explained by an Oxford professor for Islamic studies. Unfortunately I can't find the specific interview now.
Regardless, having watched several interviews with Birbalsingh prior to the case going to court and hearing her explanation of events and reasoning behind their ethos, I am pleased with the result.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I'm not quite comfortable with the idea of expel the kid for the "sins of the parents" though.
Me neither, especially given the "God" complex that some Headmasters have. There were quite strict controls over LA schools around expelling students which I think is right - otherwise you'd get every HT expelling any kid they don't like and dumping them on other schools.Goaty Bill 2 said:
For anyone unfamiliar with the full circumstances Katharine Birbalsingh gives a comprehensive description of events in her interview with Triggernometry
.
The issue under discussion here is pretty much fully covered by the half way point but the remainder of the interview is also quite interesting...
She gives a very coherent account of the ethos of the school. She and her staff have clearly been paying a price for trying to uphold those values in the face of intimidation.
The issue under discussion here is pretty much fully covered by the half way point but the remainder of the interview is also quite interesting...
Would be interesting to see how things had turned out if the Head of Batley Grammar shared the same principles and courage to defend them.
fly by wire said:
There is one principle here, the only one.
Either fit in or fk off.
If the rules here in this country aren't to your liking then go and live somewhere that is to your liking.
Quite simple really.
It's always surprising how hypocritical people can be. Either fit in or f
k off.If the rules here in this country aren't to your liking then go and live somewhere that is to your liking.
Quite simple really.
"Others" should FI or FO but they personally should be free to ignore any rules or laws they don't like.
Oliver Hardy said:
williamp said:
Full statement in the speccie, including thus observation
."Can it be right for a family to receive £150,000 of taxpayer-funded legal aid to bring a case like this? The judge is clear that the child’s statements were not written by her alone. Indeed this mum intends to send her second child to Michaela, starting in September. At the same time, this mum has sent a letter to our lawyers suggesting that she may take us to court yet again over another issue at the school she doesn’t like, presumably once again at the taxpayer’s expense..."
Interesting take on religion and legal aid. And that the parent wants to fight from within. Rather than what normal people would do: move to a school which does allow your needs. Its like they hsve an agenda or something, and are using their own children as pawns
Don't they have to pay it back?."Can it be right for a family to receive £150,000 of taxpayer-funded legal aid to bring a case like this? The judge is clear that the child’s statements were not written by her alone. Indeed this mum intends to send her second child to Michaela, starting in September. At the same time, this mum has sent a letter to our lawyers suggesting that she may take us to court yet again over another issue at the school she doesn’t like, presumably once again at the taxpayer’s expense..."
Interesting take on religion and legal aid. And that the parent wants to fight from within. Rather than what normal people would do: move to a school which does allow your needs. Its like they hsve an agenda or something, and are using their own children as pawns
I have some sympathy for them. She was already at the school when pray was banned. Unless I got it wrong she and some other pupils took it upon themselves to
This leaves schools which wish to do so to use school time for learning / recreation (and eating at lunch time) with the rest left for home.
lord trumpton said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Why on earth would you want the child expelled?
Because her family are 'trouble' by the sounds of it. Let them go play trouble elsewhere, or maybe take their child to a faith school if that is so important to them.MikeHo said:
Spot on.
Religion has no place in schools anyway.
I think the problem you will find here is a double standard, because at the moment its ok for a student to act like a cat and for the school to support it, its ok for them to be gay, trans, have a sex change, have sex, practice anything they want but when it comes to practicing prayers which for all intent and purpose is a 2-3 minute task which affects no one is some how the worst thing possible. Religion has no place in schools anyway.
Hypocrisy of the highest standard.
Chamon_Lee said:
MikeHo said:
Spot on.
Religion has no place in schools anyway.
I think the problem you will find here is a double standard, because at the moment its ok for a student to act like a cat and for the school to support it, its ok for them to be gay, trans, have a sex change, have sex, practice anything they want but when it comes to practicing prayers which for all intent and purpose is a 2-3 minute task which affects no one is some how the worst thing possible. Religion has no place in schools anyway.
Hypocrisy of the highest standard.
50 minute lesson - you can be gay, trans a cat and still learn for 50 minutes.
5 minute prayer time in the middle - lesson buggered.
That's my understanding.
You can be a blue haired trans cat, wearing neon hot pants - still sat down in the lesson for 50 minutes.
The argument was that if you allowed 5 minutes per religion to pray and a few kids took the time out, your lessons would collapse.
Seems straightforward to me.
Chamon_Lee said:
MikeHo said:
Spot on.
Religion has no place in schools anyway.
I think the problem you will find here is a double standard, because at the moment its ok for a student to act like a cat and for the school to support it, its ok for them to be gay, trans, have a sex change, have sex, practice anything they want but when it comes to practicing prayers which for all intent and purpose is a 2-3 minute task which affects no one is some how the worst thing possible. Religion has no place in schools anyway.
Hypocrisy of the highest standard.
Were kids leaving class to pray?
I've always prayed in my own time (lunch, break etc).
Interesting that the school is veggie. Presumably as a sacrifice to make the veggies feel comfortable. Tolerance and all that. But high achieving school kids cannot pray at school
But they can say a prayer for the king each day. I understand the national anthem is sung there daily.
Barbalsingh must be getting tips from Braverman who used to be a governor at the school
I've always prayed in my own time (lunch, break etc).
Interesting that the school is veggie. Presumably as a sacrifice to make the veggies feel comfortable. Tolerance and all that. But high achieving school kids cannot pray at school
But they can say a prayer for the king each day. I understand the national anthem is sung there daily.
Barbalsingh must be getting tips from Braverman who used to be a governor at the school
MrJuice said:
Were kids leaving class to pray?
I've always prayed in my own time (lunch, break etc).
Interesting that the school is veggie. Presumably as a sacrifice to make the veggies feel comfortable. Tolerance and all that. But high achieving school kids cannot pray at school
But they can say a prayer for the king each day. I understand the national anthem is sung there daily.
Barbalsingh must be getting tips from Braverman who used to be a governor at the school
The national anthem isn't really a prayer, a bit of a dirge perhaps, but an anthem nonetheless. Whatever they are doing also seems to be working based on results. I've always prayed in my own time (lunch, break etc).
Interesting that the school is veggie. Presumably as a sacrifice to make the veggies feel comfortable. Tolerance and all that. But high achieving school kids cannot pray at school
But they can say a prayer for the king each day. I understand the national anthem is sung there daily.
Barbalsingh must be getting tips from Braverman who used to be a governor at the school
gregs656 said:
Surprised how many posters think people should just put up with what ever rules even if they don't agree with them.
I think people were more concerned about the waste of public money in bringing the case and defending it. If the pupil in question doesn't want to abide by the rules they can leave for a school that is more amenable, so no need to "put up" with them. They could leave
But in the public sector reasonable adjustments can and should be made to accommodate the needs of those being served.
If kids were going for prayer and then getting drunk or smoking or whatever, you could understand why it would be stopped. Going to pray to the Lord of all creation (if that's what you believe) seems to be pretty harmless. If a minority are forcing religion on to others, sure definitely stop that. But for those that are willing participants, why the Suella Braverman would you want to stop them? Seems bizarre and against the spirit of public service.
Barbalsingh's statement yesterday showed her for what she is. A very big bigot
But in the public sector reasonable adjustments can and should be made to accommodate the needs of those being served.
If kids were going for prayer and then getting drunk or smoking or whatever, you could understand why it would be stopped. Going to pray to the Lord of all creation (if that's what you believe) seems to be pretty harmless. If a minority are forcing religion on to others, sure definitely stop that. But for those that are willing participants, why the Suella Braverman would you want to stop them? Seems bizarre and against the spirit of public service.
Barbalsingh's statement yesterday showed her for what she is. A very big bigot
JagLover said:
MrJuice said:
Were kids leaving class to pray?
I've always prayed in my own time (lunch, break etc).
Interesting that the school is veggie. Presumably as a sacrifice to make the veggies feel comfortable. Tolerance and all that. But high achieving school kids cannot pray at school
But they can say a prayer for the king each day. I understand the national anthem is sung there daily.
Barbalsingh must be getting tips from Braverman who used to be a governor at the school
The national anthem isn't really a prayer, a bit of a dirge perhaps, but an anthem nonetheless. Whatever they are doing also seems to be working based on results. I've always prayed in my own time (lunch, break etc).
Interesting that the school is veggie. Presumably as a sacrifice to make the veggies feel comfortable. Tolerance and all that. But high achieving school kids cannot pray at school
But they can say a prayer for the king each day. I understand the national anthem is sung there daily.
Barbalsingh must be getting tips from Braverman who used to be a governor at the school
It's a great way of beating down the people Suella and her mates love to beat down on.
If the rules are stupid, they should be challenged. What harm is prayer doing to the school or anyone associated with it? If it makes you nervous seeing a Muslim pray, I'd suggest you see your GP, urgently.
If the rules are stupid, they should be challenged. What harm is prayer doing to the school or anyone associated with it? If it makes you nervous seeing a Muslim pray, I'd suggest you see your GP, urgently.
JagLover said:
I think people were more concerned about the waste of public money in bringing the case and defending it. If the pupil in question doesn't want to abide by the rules they can leave for a school that is more amenable, so no need to "put up" with them.
They can, and have, also challenge the rules.I personally think it is important that rules are able to be challenged.
I think this is the right outcome by the way.
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