The British Army and "Beasting".......
Discussion
havoc said:
Dixie68 said:
I was in the Army and then transferred to the RAF and have seen beasting in both. But beasting is NOT bullying, it's about pushing someone to their very limits and then beyond them - after all if they can't handle that in a nice green field in the UK how are they going to handle it in a war-zone when getting shot at, (or bombed by the Septics)?
Bullying is a vicious, spirit-destroying cancer and has never been tolerated in all the years I was in because it destroys the team spirit that they have taken so long to build up.
In my 22 years combined I saw 2 occasions of bullying, where the bully was severely punished, and one of racism, where the racist was thrown out of the RAF. One of the bullying occasions it was me who reported a fellow training Corporal for physically hitting a young female recruit, and I had the full support of my superiors.
Despite what the media would have you believe, bullying is taken very seriously and is always punished. Unfortunately, as in every other walk of life, there are a few bad apples who give everyone a bad name.
Best summary yet. Thanks.Bullying is a vicious, spirit-destroying cancer and has never been tolerated in all the years I was in because it destroys the team spirit that they have taken so long to build up.
In my 22 years combined I saw 2 occasions of bullying, where the bully was severely punished, and one of racism, where the racist was thrown out of the RAF. One of the bullying occasions it was me who reported a fellow training Corporal for physically hitting a young female recruit, and I had the full support of my superiors.
Despite what the media would have you believe, bullying is taken very seriously and is always punished. Unfortunately, as in every other walk of life, there are a few bad apples who give everyone a bad name.
havoc said:
Dixie68 said:
I was in the Army and then transferred to the RAF and have seen beasting in both. But beasting is NOT bullying, it's about pushing someone to their very limits and then beyond them - after all if they can't handle that in a nice green field in the UK how are they going to handle it in a war-zone when getting shot at, (or bombed by the Septics)?
Bullying is a vicious, spirit-destroying cancer and has never been tolerated in all the years I was in because it destroys the team spirit that they have taken so long to build up.
In my 22 years combined I saw 2 occasions of bullying, where the bully was severely punished, and one of racism, where the racist was thrown out of the RAF. One of the bullying occasions it was me who reported a fellow training Corporal for physically hitting a young female recruit, and I had the full support of my superiors.
Despite what the media would have you believe, bullying is taken very seriously and is always punished. Unfortunately, as in every other walk of life, there are a few bad apples who give everyone a bad name.
Best summary yet. Thanks.Bullying is a vicious, spirit-destroying cancer and has never been tolerated in all the years I was in because it destroys the team spirit that they have taken so long to build up.
In my 22 years combined I saw 2 occasions of bullying, where the bully was severely punished, and one of racism, where the racist was thrown out of the RAF. One of the bullying occasions it was me who reported a fellow training Corporal for physically hitting a young female recruit, and I had the full support of my superiors.
Despite what the media would have you believe, bullying is taken very seriously and is always punished. Unfortunately, as in every other walk of life, there are a few bad apples who give everyone a bad name.
Dixie68 said:
I was in the Army and then transferred to the RAF and have seen beasting in both. But beasting is NOT bullying, it's about pushing someone to their very limits and then beyond them
Quite right. We were subjected to a damn good "beasting" during our MFT at RAF North Luffenham. Obviously, it was "only" the RAF and hardly SAS Selection, but we were pushed and pushed and pushed. And then pushed a bit more, by the Regiment instructors. Ridiculed, laughed at, shouted at, sworn at and generally mocked if we showed any signs of giving up. So we didn't give up. It's amazing what you can be capable of if you've got someone screaming in your ear that you're not capable of it.As for bullying, I never saw a hint of it in my (admittedly short) career. Well, apart from at Swinderby, when we discovered that we had a locker-thief in our midst. Our sergeant instructed us to "find him and break his arms so he can't hold his crutches." We actually only subjected him to a "regimental bath", so he got off quite lightly.
Edited by Sciroccology on Saturday 14th March 15:49
I think the distinction between bullying and beasting has very well explained in this thread. In my 22 years service the only experience I have of bullying occurred when I was a 16 year old recruit and that was from another, somewhat larger, recruit. That issue was resolved with the use of a broomhandle. But even back then in 1987 had either of us been caught behaving like that we would have been in serious trouble.
Beasting, like a lot of apparently pointless things in military training, has a definite purpose.
Someone mentioned marching in circles and painting coal earlier. Been watching too many natiional service era films, I fear.
Beasting, like a lot of apparently pointless things in military training, has a definite purpose.
Someone mentioned marching in circles and painting coal earlier. Been watching too many natiional service era films, I fear.
Tunku said:
havoc said:
Dixie68 said:
I was in the Army and then transferred to the RAF and have seen beasting in both. But beasting is NOT bullying, it's about pushing someone to their very limits and then beyond them - after all if they can't handle that in a nice green field in the UK how are they going to handle it in a war-zone when getting shot at, (or bombed by the Septics)?
Bullying is a vicious, spirit-destroying cancer and has never been tolerated in all the years I was in because it destroys the team spirit that they have taken so long to build up.
In my 22 years combined I saw 2 occasions of bullying, where the bully was severely punished, and one of racism, where the racist was thrown out of the RAF. One of the bullying occasions it was me who reported a fellow training Corporal for physically hitting a young female recruit, and I had the full support of my superiors.
Despite what the media would have you believe, bullying is taken very seriously and is always punished. Unfortunately, as in every other walk of life, there are a few bad apples who give everyone a bad name.
Best summary yet. Thanks.Bullying is a vicious, spirit-destroying cancer and has never been tolerated in all the years I was in because it destroys the team spirit that they have taken so long to build up.
In my 22 years combined I saw 2 occasions of bullying, where the bully was severely punished, and one of racism, where the racist was thrown out of the RAF. One of the bullying occasions it was me who reported a fellow training Corporal for physically hitting a young female recruit, and I had the full support of my superiors.
Despite what the media would have you believe, bullying is taken very seriously and is always punished. Unfortunately, as in every other walk of life, there are a few bad apples who give everyone a bad name.
Well I'm still here now 30 yrs later,
looking back did me NO harm whatsoever and TBH taught me how to put aside hardships and FOCUS.I can vouch for coal being painted white. Also painted gloss black so that it could be polished.
I also had the priveledge in 1976 to see scorched earth painted green to 'spuce up the field' for a royal visit. I was only a kid then, but my dad was the MO - Bizarre being told to "Keep off the Grass" whilst minding the "Wet Paint".
A Beasting is a league away from bullying - however there are s
tes who try and blur the issue - although there are also those odd few that abuse the hierarchy / power too.
ETA - "It pays to be a winner!"
I also had the priveledge in 1976 to see scorched earth painted green to 'spuce up the field' for a royal visit. I was only a kid then, but my dad was the MO - Bizarre being told to "Keep off the Grass" whilst minding the "Wet Paint".
A Beasting is a league away from bullying - however there are s
tes who try and blur the issue - although there are also those odd few that abuse the hierarchy / power too.ETA - "It pays to be a winner!"
Edited by Skywalker on Sunday 15th March 00:36
I don't actually think many people in the armed forces have much difficulty understanding this, but the public do. The same action could be beasting or bullying, it depends what the intention behind it is. All I can say is if you are on the receiving end it's bloody obvious which it is, but if you are a Daily Mail reader it's not. I've had a WO1 from the Scots Guards threatening me at high volume about three inches from my face, complete with saliva. I was much the better for it.
I think that the Army has pretty well always had this under control, but there will be the occasional bad apple in every bunch and it always needs watched. I don't know what was going on down at Deepcut barracks for example but it didn't sound good. Few recruits get to the stage of shooting themselves voluntarily. It's not that hard to pack it if you want to. By this time of course I am a Daily Mail reader.
I think that the Army has pretty well always had this under control, but there will be the occasional bad apple in every bunch and it always needs watched. I don't know what was going on down at Deepcut barracks for example but it didn't sound good. Few recruits get to the stage of shooting themselves voluntarily. It's not that hard to pack it if you want to. By this time of course I am a Daily Mail reader.
cardigankid said:
It's not that hard to pack it if you want to.
[devils advocate mode] But what if the (previous) beastings has made you feel that 'giving up' is not an option, as it would be an admission of failure / inadequacy. So that the (subsequent) bullying backs said individual into an emotional corner - can't stand it anymore, but can't quit the force as that would make said individual feel even more a failure/worthless?!? [/mode]Just a possibility. Not a critism either, but a suggestion based on the law of unintended consequences.
If you have faith in human nature, you might argue that if it was that important to someone then they are going to work harder to succeed. And in the end you have to make an effort or you will succeed at nothing. Beasting doesn't make people quit. It is directed at making a candidate improve their performance, and if you do improve you reap the rewards.
Most people quit because either they don't enjoy it or they cannot be arsed to do the work, not because they are not capable of doing it.
I also think that in most cases there is always a senior NCO or officer to whom candidates can go to discuss problems.
Bullying on the other hand is a despicable activity carried out by people with latent personality defects who are unfit to hold any form of rank.
Most people quit because either they don't enjoy it or they cannot be arsed to do the work, not because they are not capable of doing it.
I also think that in most cases there is always a senior NCO or officer to whom candidates can go to discuss problems.
Bullying on the other hand is a despicable activity carried out by people with latent personality defects who are unfit to hold any form of rank.
Sciroccology said:
BruceV8 said:
Someone mentioned marching in circles and painting coal earlier. Been watching too many natiional service era films, I fear.
Don't they get you to sweep up unsightly puddles, or paint the grass greener any more then?Honestly, this country...
havoc said:
cardigankid said:
It's not that hard to pack it if you want to.
[devils advocate mode] But what if the (previous) beastings has made you feel that 'giving up' is not an option, as it would be an admission of failure / inadequacy. So that the (subsequent) bullying backs said individual into an emotional corner - can't stand it anymore, but can't quit the force as that would make said individual feel even more a failure/worthless?!? [/mode]Just a possibility. Not a critism either, but a suggestion based on the law of unintended consequences.
If another NCO is bullying for the sake of it, usually other NCOs will have words with him. I didn't see much of it in the Infantry. People who played up or were really crap did get a harder time though. Especially the scots who had no business being in the Army.
I gave people a hard time if they continuly f
ked up but I was fair, showed them why they fked up and the correct way to do it. I also remember one time having to stop a lad trying to cut his wrists in Germany and another from throwing himself out of a open window. These things were usualy the result of bullying from other privates and the drinking of alcohol, especially in Germany, where it was so cheap and no one went home on the weekends.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff