Cost to re-do a small bathroom?
Discussion
It would be difficult for there to be less glitz and I didn't spot any manicures this morning 
It's literally a giant trade warehouse but they have a design counter and also do decent brands.
They don't use their own fitters they work with local trades and one of them is the guy who did the current bathroom which was from them 15 or so years back.
Take the point about places like Wickes but I think I'd be happier with knowing I'm using decent brands and honestly nothing I saw this morning seemed super expensive.
The chap who installed the current bathroom is popping around Monday or Tuesday as there is a small brown water mark on the ceiling under the bathroom that I want checked so I'll see what he says.
It's literally a giant trade warehouse but they have a design counter and also do decent brands.
They don't use their own fitters they work with local trades and one of them is the guy who did the current bathroom which was from them 15 or so years back.
Take the point about places like Wickes but I think I'd be happier with knowing I'm using decent brands and honestly nothing I saw this morning seemed super expensive.
The chap who installed the current bathroom is popping around Monday or Tuesday as there is a small brown water mark on the ceiling under the bathroom that I want checked so I'll see what he says.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: We're not exactly getting a consensus here are we
This was what I wrote down simply as "building blocks" nothing more than finger in the air from an initial visit and chat with one of the guys down there but based on the brands above which were on display so hopefully realistic.
Toilet and cabinet/basin approx £1500
Shower "glass and tray" approx £1000 depends on size of tray and quantity of glass
Shower head and pump approx £800-1000
Radiator/towel rail approx £300
Tiles approx £1000
Taps approx £300
That's nothing more than a rough idea and there will be some bits missing of course but you can see how fitting and labour seems to be the biggest/bigger cost here
That sounds about like the job which was done to our main shower room about a year before we moved in.This was what I wrote down simply as "building blocks" nothing more than finger in the air from an initial visit and chat with one of the guys down there but based on the brands above which were on display so hopefully realistic.
Toilet and cabinet/basin approx £1500
Shower "glass and tray" approx £1000 depends on size of tray and quantity of glass
Shower head and pump approx £800-1000
Radiator/towel rail approx £300
Tiles approx £1000
Taps approx £300
That's nothing more than a rough idea and there will be some bits missing of course but you can see how fitting and labour seems to be the biggest/bigger cost here
6 years on, a lot of it is f
ked.MDF cupboards and work top delaminating and swollen.
Taps corroding
Various fittings have been replaced already.
Sealant all needed replacing last year. While we were doing that, we noticed faults in some tiles.
There is a lot of tat on the market.
Terzo123 said:
Our tilers/bathroom fitters are about to start on the downstairs bathroom, looks similar size to your. Gone for HiB units, fixtures have come in at around £2.5k, another 20sqm of tiles coming in at £800 supplied, it’ll be another £30/sqm roughly to tile, so £4K without fitting cost or sorting out the space (which is included in builders quote for the rest of the house). You have done well to get that done for £5k!
Yeah, you’re right to go for decent fixtures and fittings and you’ll only regret it every time you sit on the throne and stare at it. They won’t necessarily last any longer especially things like taps but at least they’ll feel quality and a few hundred quid extra ain’t going to amount to a whole hill of beans when the total bill comes in.
We did our a few years back and was a complete back to brick but everything stayed in the same place. Was about £11k all in and half of that was tiles, toilets and all that jazz with the rest being labour and took about 10 days in total
We uncovered a few nasties especially with the plumbing that set us back a bit so have a contingency fund just in case. Previous owner was an avid DIYer. Unfortunately, as we are constantly finding, he was st at it. Looks good on the outside, completely bodged underneath. (Just found out that the front wall he built has virtually no footings and now ‘moves’ a bit…<sigh>)
We did our a few years back and was a complete back to brick but everything stayed in the same place. Was about £11k all in and half of that was tiles, toilets and all that jazz with the rest being labour and took about 10 days in total
We uncovered a few nasties especially with the plumbing that set us back a bit so have a contingency fund just in case. Previous owner was an avid DIYer. Unfortunately, as we are constantly finding, he was s
t at it. Looks good on the outside, completely bodged underneath. (Just found out that the front wall he built has virtually no footings and now ‘moves’ a bit…<sigh>)Well I’m doing a 1.8m x 2.4m bathroom at the moment, with a basin, toilet and shower on a “decent quality but low cost” basis.
£460 Merlyn 1200 x 900 offset quadrant shower & tray
£1200 integrated furniture inc WC & basin
£200 compact laminate worktop
£50 Hans grohe tap
£250 Mira thermostatic mixer shower
£150 tiles & materials to go behind shower
All other work and fitting I’m doing myself (apart from plastering).
£460 Merlyn 1200 x 900 offset quadrant shower & tray
£1200 integrated furniture inc WC & basin
£200 compact laminate worktop
£50 Hans grohe tap
£250 Mira thermostatic mixer shower
£150 tiles & materials to go behind shower
All other work and fitting I’m doing myself (apart from plastering).
I was recently quoted £20k to re-do one bathroom, about 2.5 x 2.5 metres, and the price didn't include flooring.
£10k for fittings, £2k for tiles etc, £8k labour.
Just how long does it take a "professional" to install a bathroom? Let's say two weeks. Even if we assume that £8k for labour includes VAT the rate is still equivalent to £160,000 a year.
No, the project is not going ahead.
£10k for fittings, £2k for tiles etc, £8k labour.
Just how long does it take a "professional" to install a bathroom? Let's say two weeks. Even if we assume that £8k for labour includes VAT the rate is still equivalent to £160,000 a year.
No, the project is not going ahead.
Little Lofty said:
I think I should put up my prices
These bathrooms for my flips cost me around £1500 for the fittings and tiles, I do most of the fitting/tiling myself. I’m a joiner and can tile a bathroom in 2/3 days
Thanks These bathrooms for my flips cost me around £1500 for the fittings and tiles, I do most of the fitting/tiling myself. I’m a joiner and can tile a bathroom in 2/3 days
To me the second one looks absolutely functional and the aesthetic is a little different (I don't want a bath) but not a million miles off what I had in mind i.e. minimal but good quality brands.
It's a bathroom I shower and s
t in it and I want it nice and done to last but I'm not made of money.I don't want to appear critical of anyone who's been kind enough to post but I must admit I'm a little gobsmacked at some of the top end prices mentioned.
A couple of people have now taken the labour charge and extrapolated it out to generate some kind of annual income guesstimate.
It's not really fair or logical to be doing that.
Quality trades need to leave gaps between jobs to account for slippage and there isn't always a continuous stream of work so there are numerous days through the year when they aren't earning. Their day rate also has to cover the paperwork done in the evening, the time spent visiting and pitching quotes and travel time and cost for jobs and pitching for jobs. It also has to account for the risk of returning to a job of there are any issues. Then there is holiday time. Let's say they would like 20 days as per typical employees, that's 4 weeks, one twelfth of the year unpaid.
And of course, unlike the employed they also have to cover their own pension contributions, health care, insurances, work vehicle and other costs.
So even if the work being done was comparable in complexity to a minimum wage Tesco job you can clearly see that in order to be equal to that minimum wage the day rate needs to be substantially higher than just minimum wage x 8 hours.
Self employed deserve the same human rights as employed but when self employed you have to pay direct, there is no 'mother' covering it all, no team doing half the work and no amortisation of costs across a wide group.
And a part of those human rights is the right to live and work in a free market. Which means that when there are periods of good demand but weak supply then they are not oppressed communist labourers of the State who must all charge the same uniform, depressed rate but normal, free humans with a right to charge more in the good times and survive on less in the bad times.
When times are good they are free to charge more, work less and have more leisure time, work more to make the most money possible, save all the money for when times are bad, or piss it away on fast cars and flash holidays and have nothing to show for it. The good times are where the winners of the bad times are forged and the losers highlighted.
People who have chosen the security of the 9-5 for someone else and all the benefits that gives and it's effective 'day rate' that is guaranteed 220 days a year whether you are basking in the Tuscan sunshine or lying on the bathroom floor firing from both ends, where basic costs like pension, healthcare, car are at least contributed towards must accept that the trade off in the good times is that their pay rise may only be a few percent but at the same time take very clear note that their pay doesn't go down in the not so good times and even if it were to go to zero they still receive some sort of cash reward.
In short, it's really important to not take a self employed day rate and ever extrapolate it out to some imaginary annual income for the purpose of then comparing it to some secured employment annual income.
And if you do have a, for example, a 9-5 office job then just look around that office for the freeloading scumbags who are on the same pay package as yourself but strictly work 9-5, constantly pull sickies, always take their mandatory 1 hour lunch, never go out of the way to help anyone and who barely does any work when at their desk. Look at that person with their maybe £150-£250 'day rate' and just ask yourself, who is actually the scumbag thief here, the self employed tradesman levying £400/day but having to cover all their own costs and risks as well as saving to cover the bad times or the worthless piece of st the HR keeps protected and who is one half that day rate but doing bugger all while weighing down all their co workers who are having to do more but for the same pay?
And if that tradesman wants to work weekends and evenings to earn as much as humanly possible then these are not things that any 9-5 employee is prevented from doing, it's just that most of them genuinely believe that they are too tired after a hard 8 hours of sitting down to then go and do some evening job or that they can't possibly work on a weekend as that's when they spend two days walking around shops getting deeper into the debt that makes them angry at those who seem to have more than them.
It's not really fair or logical to be doing that.
Quality trades need to leave gaps between jobs to account for slippage and there isn't always a continuous stream of work so there are numerous days through the year when they aren't earning. Their day rate also has to cover the paperwork done in the evening, the time spent visiting and pitching quotes and travel time and cost for jobs and pitching for jobs. It also has to account for the risk of returning to a job of there are any issues. Then there is holiday time. Let's say they would like 20 days as per typical employees, that's 4 weeks, one twelfth of the year unpaid.
And of course, unlike the employed they also have to cover their own pension contributions, health care, insurances, work vehicle and other costs.
So even if the work being done was comparable in complexity to a minimum wage Tesco job you can clearly see that in order to be equal to that minimum wage the day rate needs to be substantially higher than just minimum wage x 8 hours.
Self employed deserve the same human rights as employed but when self employed you have to pay direct, there is no 'mother' covering it all, no team doing half the work and no amortisation of costs across a wide group.
And a part of those human rights is the right to live and work in a free market. Which means that when there are periods of good demand but weak supply then they are not oppressed communist labourers of the State who must all charge the same uniform, depressed rate but normal, free humans with a right to charge more in the good times and survive on less in the bad times.
When times are good they are free to charge more, work less and have more leisure time, work more to make the most money possible, save all the money for when times are bad, or piss it away on fast cars and flash holidays and have nothing to show for it. The good times are where the winners of the bad times are forged and the losers highlighted.
People who have chosen the security of the 9-5 for someone else and all the benefits that gives and it's effective 'day rate' that is guaranteed 220 days a year whether you are basking in the Tuscan sunshine or lying on the bathroom floor firing from both ends, where basic costs like pension, healthcare, car are at least contributed towards must accept that the trade off in the good times is that their pay rise may only be a few percent but at the same time take very clear note that their pay doesn't go down in the not so good times and even if it were to go to zero they still receive some sort of cash reward.
In short, it's really important to not take a self employed day rate and ever extrapolate it out to some imaginary annual income for the purpose of then comparing it to some secured employment annual income.
And if you do have a, for example, a 9-5 office job then just look around that office for the freeloading scumbags who are on the same pay package as yourself but strictly work 9-5, constantly pull sickies, always take their mandatory 1 hour lunch, never go out of the way to help anyone and who barely does any work when at their desk. Look at that person with their maybe £150-£250 'day rate' and just ask yourself, who is actually the scumbag thief here, the self employed tradesman levying £400/day but having to cover all their own costs and risks as well as saving to cover the bad times or the worthless piece of s
t the HR keeps protected and who is one half that day rate but doing bugger all while weighing down all their co workers who are having to do more but for the same pay?And if that tradesman wants to work weekends and evenings to earn as much as humanly possible then these are not things that any 9-5 employee is prevented from doing, it's just that most of them genuinely believe that they are too tired after a hard 8 hours of sitting down to then go and do some evening job or that they can't possibly work on a weekend as that's when they spend two days walking around shops getting deeper into the debt that makes them angry at those who seem to have more than them.
I think the other self employed aspect that should be considered is that when you are very good at your job in the employed environment you still get paid for the hours when you've already finished but for self employed trades of quality they have the weird risk that the better they are at their job the less they earn if they don't raise their day rate or manage to have seamless, back to back jobs that take advantage of your superior work efficiency over one's industry peers. Or you just resign yourself to having more days at the track, the lake or on the course as the tarde off and reward.
gangzoom said:
Our tilers/bathroom fitters are about to start on the downstairs bathroom, looks similar size to your. Gone for HiB units, fixtures have come in at around £2.5k, another 20sqm of tiles coming in at £800 supplied, it’ll be another £30/sqm roughly to tile, so £4K without fitting cost or sorting out the space (which is included in builders quote for the rest of the house).
You have done well to get that done for £5k!
Thanks.You have done well to get that done for £5k!
I saved a bit by sourcing the tiles myself online. I'm sure I was under 1k all in to purchase the tiles and have them fitted.
DonkeyApple said:
A couple of people have now taken the labour charge and extrapolated it out to generate some kind of annual income guesstimate.
It's not really fair or logical to be doing that.
Quality trades need to leave gaps between jobs to account for slippage and there isn't always a continuous stream of work so there are numerous days through the year when they aren't earning. Their day rate also has to cover the paperwork done in the evening, the time spent visiting and pitching quotes and travel time and cost for jobs and pitching for jobs. It also has to account for the risk of returning to a job of there are any issues. Then there is holiday time. Let's say they would like 20 days as per typical employees, that's 4 weeks, one twelfth of the year unpaid.
And of course, unlike the employed they also have to cover their own pension contributions, health care, insurances, work vehicle and other costs.
So even if the work being done was comparable in complexity to a minimum wage Tesco job you can clearly see that in order to be equal to that minimum wage the day rate needs to be substantially higher than just minimum wage x 8 hours.
Self employed deserve the same human rights as employed but when self employed you have to pay direct, there is no 'mother' covering it all, no team doing half the work and no amortisation of costs across a wide group.
And a part of those human rights is the right to live and work in a free market. Which means that when there are periods of good demand but weak supply then they are not oppressed communist labourers of the State who must all charge the same uniform, depressed rate but normal, free humans with a right to charge more in the good times and survive on less in the bad times.
When times are good they are free to charge more, work less and have more leisure time, work more to make the most money possible, save all the money for when times are bad, or piss it away on fast cars and flash holidays and have nothing to show for it. The good times are where the winners of the bad times are forged and the losers highlighted.
People who have chosen the security of the 9-5 for someone else and all the benefits that gives and it's effective 'day rate' that is guaranteed 220 days a year whether you are basking in the Tuscan sunshine or lying on the bathroom floor firing from both ends, where basic costs like pension, healthcare, car are at least contributed towards must accept that the trade off in the good times is that their pay rise may only be a few percent but at the same time take very clear note that their pay doesn't go down in the not so good times and even if it were to go to zero they still receive some sort of cash reward.
In short, it's really important to not take a self employed day rate and ever extrapolate it out to some imaginary annual income for the purpose of then comparing it to some secured employment annual income.
And if you do have a, for example, a 9-5 office job then just look around that office for the freeloading scumbags who are on the same pay package as yourself but strictly work 9-5, constantly pull sickies, always take their mandatory 1 hour lunch, never go out of the way to help anyone and who barely does any work when at their desk. Look at that person with their maybe £150-£250 'day rate' and just ask yourself, who is actually the scumbag thief here, the self employed tradesman levying £400/day but having to cover all their own costs and risks as well as saving to cover the bad times or the worthless piece of st the HR keeps protected and who is one half that day rate but doing bugger all while weighing down all their co workers who are having to do more but for the same pay?
And if that tradesman wants to work weekends and evenings to earn as much as humanly possible then these are not things that any 9-5 employee is prevented from doing, it's just that most of them genuinely believe that they are too tired after a hard 8 hours of sitting down to then go and do some evening job or that they can't possibly work on a weekend as that's when they spend two days walking around shops getting deeper into the debt that makes them angry at those who seem to have more than them.
This.It's not really fair or logical to be doing that.
Quality trades need to leave gaps between jobs to account for slippage and there isn't always a continuous stream of work so there are numerous days through the year when they aren't earning. Their day rate also has to cover the paperwork done in the evening, the time spent visiting and pitching quotes and travel time and cost for jobs and pitching for jobs. It also has to account for the risk of returning to a job of there are any issues. Then there is holiday time. Let's say they would like 20 days as per typical employees, that's 4 weeks, one twelfth of the year unpaid.
And of course, unlike the employed they also have to cover their own pension contributions, health care, insurances, work vehicle and other costs.
So even if the work being done was comparable in complexity to a minimum wage Tesco job you can clearly see that in order to be equal to that minimum wage the day rate needs to be substantially higher than just minimum wage x 8 hours.
Self employed deserve the same human rights as employed but when self employed you have to pay direct, there is no 'mother' covering it all, no team doing half the work and no amortisation of costs across a wide group.
And a part of those human rights is the right to live and work in a free market. Which means that when there are periods of good demand but weak supply then they are not oppressed communist labourers of the State who must all charge the same uniform, depressed rate but normal, free humans with a right to charge more in the good times and survive on less in the bad times.
When times are good they are free to charge more, work less and have more leisure time, work more to make the most money possible, save all the money for when times are bad, or piss it away on fast cars and flash holidays and have nothing to show for it. The good times are where the winners of the bad times are forged and the losers highlighted.
People who have chosen the security of the 9-5 for someone else and all the benefits that gives and it's effective 'day rate' that is guaranteed 220 days a year whether you are basking in the Tuscan sunshine or lying on the bathroom floor firing from both ends, where basic costs like pension, healthcare, car are at least contributed towards must accept that the trade off in the good times is that their pay rise may only be a few percent but at the same time take very clear note that their pay doesn't go down in the not so good times and even if it were to go to zero they still receive some sort of cash reward.
In short, it's really important to not take a self employed day rate and ever extrapolate it out to some imaginary annual income for the purpose of then comparing it to some secured employment annual income.
And if you do have a, for example, a 9-5 office job then just look around that office for the freeloading scumbags who are on the same pay package as yourself but strictly work 9-5, constantly pull sickies, always take their mandatory 1 hour lunch, never go out of the way to help anyone and who barely does any work when at their desk. Look at that person with their maybe £150-£250 'day rate' and just ask yourself, who is actually the scumbag thief here, the self employed tradesman levying £400/day but having to cover all their own costs and risks as well as saving to cover the bad times or the worthless piece of s
t the HR keeps protected and who is one half that day rate but doing bugger all while weighing down all their co workers who are having to do more but for the same pay?And if that tradesman wants to work weekends and evenings to earn as much as humanly possible then these are not things that any 9-5 employee is prevented from doing, it's just that most of them genuinely believe that they are too tired after a hard 8 hours of sitting down to then go and do some evening job or that they can't possibly work on a weekend as that's when they spend two days walking around shops getting deeper into the debt that makes them angry at those who seem to have more than them.
I've "timed" quite a few jobs over the years. On some, I can earn £25 to £30 an hour while I'm actually "at the bench". Worst case, when things don't go exactly to plan, I'm earning £10 to £15 an hour.
If I miss something first time round (fails testing) and have to re-do a job, that could be a day wasted.
There's a lot of "unproductive" time though - breaks, admin, tidying up, customer calls.
At year end I'm always shocked by how much (little) profit I've made. Works out at well below minimum wage.
Just as well that I enjoy what I do.
On the other hand when I do DIY jobs at home I often reckon I'm making/saving somewhere between £50 and £100 an hour.
It's easy to forget that people in conventional jobs also have a lot of unpaid time, travelling to and from work, lunchtime etc.
I previously extrapolated my bathroom quote to £160k p.a. If 25% of the year can't be billed to customers that still leaves £500 a day and even if we assume there are sometimes two men on the job it's highly unlikely the labourer/mate receives a generous slice of that pie.
It's easy to forget that people in conventional jobs also have a lot of unpaid time, travelling to and from work, lunchtime etc.
I previously extrapolated my bathroom quote to £160k p.a. If 25% of the year can't be billed to customers that still leaves £500 a day and even if we assume there are sometimes two men on the job it's highly unlikely the labourer/mate receives a generous slice of that pie.
I get baffled at some prices qoutes here. 16k!?! That's just daylight robbery. I done mine for 4k. Tiling cost me £400.
Plumber £500 (incl other stuff in house)
Actual tiles, shower tray, sink and fittings came in around 3k.
Call it 5k because I had lights put in the ceiling and can't remember what he charged. Wasn't much.
I did however remove the entire old bathroom and leave a perfect blank canvas for them to just do there job.
I do live in Scotland though where things are cheaper. Probably makes a difference but 11k of a difference!?! I'm not sure.
Plumber £500 (incl other stuff in house)
Actual tiles, shower tray, sink and fittings came in around 3k.
Call it 5k because I had lights put in the ceiling and can't remember what he charged. Wasn't much.
I did however remove the entire old bathroom and leave a perfect blank canvas for them to just do there job.
I do live in Scotland though where things are cheaper. Probably makes a difference but 11k of a difference!?! I'm not sure.
Just been quoted £6.3k for a 8m x 4m bathroom.
We’re keeping the shower, bath & toilet. Scope of work:
Supply & fit two new double glazed windows.
Plasterboard & make good old artexed ceiling.
Install extractor fan.
Fit new shower enclosure - supplied by us
Fit new vanity unit, sink and taps - supplied by us
Fit new taps to bath - supplied by us
Half tile walls, fully tile shower enclosure - metro tiles supplied by us
Install two new radiators - supplied by us
Fit new vinyl flooring - supplied by us
So I reckon another 2k on top & a 1k contingency as we’ve had a persistent leak in the past & I’m sure they’ll find rotten floorboards or something!
I consider that a fair price for the work. We had others in for a quote & all of them couldn’t do the whole job
with the windows being the main sticking point so they were out straight away. Just want it all done in one.
We’re keeping the shower, bath & toilet. Scope of work:
Supply & fit two new double glazed windows.
Plasterboard & make good old artexed ceiling.
Install extractor fan.
Fit new shower enclosure - supplied by us
Fit new vanity unit, sink and taps - supplied by us
Fit new taps to bath - supplied by us
Half tile walls, fully tile shower enclosure - metro tiles supplied by us
Install two new radiators - supplied by us
Fit new vinyl flooring - supplied by us
So I reckon another 2k on top & a 1k contingency as we’ve had a persistent leak in the past & I’m sure they’ll find rotten floorboards or something!
I consider that a fair price for the work. We had others in for a quote & all of them couldn’t do the whole job
with the windows being the main sticking point so they were out straight away. Just want it all done in one.
Edited by Portofino on Sunday 28th April 12:24
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