I don't think they're 'abusive', in any of the readily accepted terms of the word, but I do think they're an anachronism which should be removed from our education system.

How can mutilating the minds of children be anything other than abusive?

I don't think they do that, having had a daughter who went to a faith school and is already growing up as an atheist... They don't brain-wash kids and teach them creationist theory, they just have a slightly different focus on a few things which aren't massively invasive, e.g. the christmas carol concert, stuff at easter, etc.

She's done well.

I also survived my broadly/diffusely presbyterian education but it tried to wound me and I do bear scars...

(At ~13 I was amongst a dozen or so who went to see the head teacher AKA Rector to indicate our unwillingness to participate in Church Services.

Initially he said "Bring a Note" but we said to our Church of Scotland Elder Heedie; "It has nothing to do with our parents, it's those you see before you and a fair few of our fellows who have no belief in the god you would have us worship. It would show no respect to the Church nor us to compel us to participate in a ritual for which we have only contempt."

"If you can find a teacher to supervise you, fair enough."

We were spoiled for choice.)

Church parade died shortly after.

Not all kids are strong, not all will have defenders.

Anything that gives superstitious nonsense credibility is malign and needs snuffed out.

Ho yuss...

I think religion is by far the most pernicious canker in humanity's being; it has no redeeming features...

I'm sure much is entirely cynical and devoid of "faith" but it all depends on the respectability of blatantly delusional nonsense.

Far better to teach sceptical enquiry where nothing is taken on trust and all knowledge is provisional.

Lying to children is lying to children no mater how the religious dress it up.

I think that the answer is that most disapproval of such behaviour is aimed at people who are making fun of minority groups; since outspoken atheists are in fact themselves a minority they do get a degree of leeway that a majority group might not benefit from.


On the point about being nutty, I'm an atheist and I do struggle to see how anyone believing in god can be anything other than delusional or brainwashed. I understand how people would like to believe in it, I'd like to believe in it! I'd also like to believe that I'm a well built millionaire company director but every day I have to wake up and face that it's clearly not true

On the OPs question, getting them young is how religions work and probably shouldn't be. You could call it indoctrination but most of the time I don't think you can call it abuse.

Two of my three kids go to a c of e school, it is religious but they also teach about other faiths, and they have many children of different faiths attending too. We encourage the children to ask why to anything they do not understand. They are open minded, not religious zealots/martyrs in training. They respect people from different faiths and respect people who do not believe in any religion. If you want to ask what kind of school is child abuse, well, personally I would look at these new 'academies'.

If you believe that then you obviously didn't attend one.

Normally I avoid religion threads, but I feel I can contribute. At the age of 7, I was sent away to a Catholic boarding school run by (evil) nuns - aside from the sadistic nature of the nuns, I feel it wasn't a positive experience as I had to attend church 3 times a week. I complied to fit in and not have the st kicked out of me by the nuns/priest/teachers.

However, I never felt I was under any more pressure than that put on me by my parents - it is they who decide your child's future - the school is almost incidental.

Now, I have no religious affiliation, that's my choice - I will let my children decide their religious choices, whatever they may be.

[Vader] I find your lack of faith disturbing. [/Vader]