Unpopular opinion - NHS is useless
Discussion
I was diagnosed with colon cancer in March last year as part of the bowel cancer screening program. All sorted by the beginning June. Mrs Spydaman was diagnosed with breast cancer in March this year as part of the breast cancer screening program. All sorted and having radiotherapy next week. I can’t fault the NHS and I’m sure there’s millions of others that can’t.
This is just the start. We have at least another decade of the problems that OP has referenced. And it will get worse before it gets better.
I would not want to be 60+ at the moment and needing to dip into the NHS care lottery in the near future.
Those that supported the Covid restrictions are the ones who have to accept responsibility for this outcome to the NHS.
I would not want to be 60+ at the moment and needing to dip into the NHS care lottery in the near future.
Those that supported the Covid restrictions are the ones who have to accept responsibility for this outcome to the NHS.
I work in the NHS and see all of its faults and positives every day. I’ve also seen first hand how my sister in her teens was treated for a brain tumour, my dad for Parkinson’s and my mum for breast cancer, plus a mate of a mate who had a heart attack and ambulance took nearly an hour to reach him.
When it works it’s bloody brilliant, and aspects of it really are world class. Unfortunately there’s a lot of red tape, bureaucracy and a gigantic lack of staff. Staff genuinely are so busy and overworked that they can’t find time to actually “care” for patients which is probably why it feels like the consultant or GP is trying to get you out the door asap. By “care” I mean spend time with patients, get to know them, hear the back story, rather than wanting a 2 min summary and making a decision.
I’m genuinely not sure what the answer to it all is. More money might not actually help. Having access to private healthcare is definitely beneficial, but if s
t hits the fan they’ll just call an ambulance and get you transferred to an NHS hospital.
When it works it’s bloody brilliant, and aspects of it really are world class. Unfortunately there’s a lot of red tape, bureaucracy and a gigantic lack of staff. Staff genuinely are so busy and overworked that they can’t find time to actually “care” for patients which is probably why it feels like the consultant or GP is trying to get you out the door asap. By “care” I mean spend time with patients, get to know them, hear the back story, rather than wanting a 2 min summary and making a decision.
I’m genuinely not sure what the answer to it all is. More money might not actually help. Having access to private healthcare is definitely beneficial, but if s
t hits the fan they’ll just call an ambulance and get you transferred to an NHS hospital.I have had first rate care through the NHS for various stuff over the years. Even during COVID, I have had great service for my diabetes.
Yes, it can be frustrating at times, but generally excellent.
We have had two visits to A and E in the last two months too. My footballing lad with torn ligaments saw two nurses, had an x-ray, saw a doctor all in 40 minutes. I had similar, with an infected finger whilst gardening. All done in about 50 minutes with some penicillin tucked under my arm.... Not too bad.....
Yes, it can be frustrating at times, but generally excellent.
We have had two visits to A and E in the last two months too. My footballing lad with torn ligaments saw two nurses, had an x-ray, saw a doctor all in 40 minutes. I had similar, with an infected finger whilst gardening. All done in about 50 minutes with some penicillin tucked under my arm.... Not too bad.....
Evanivitch said:
So the critically under funded system isn't performing well, what a surprise...
It's not underfunded. It's a combination of can't be bothered and the patients being the issue. Alot of the time is taken up treating people who have willfully allowed themselves to become a physical train wreck from a relative young age onwards
And the many individuals with mental health who often take a ambulance crew etc multiple times a week. Every week, for years.
I've experienced the NHS as a patient. It was awful.
They refused to scan my elbow. Sorry you're here for your wrist today. It'll be another consultation and follow up scan if you want one (MONTHS).
Outside in the waiting room for scans were approx 10-20 people. All I'd class as obese.
Lotus Notes said:
It's self fulfilling giant black hole, ready to swallow even more money thrown at it by the idiots in charge..
I live in rural France, I get seen by my GP the next day, I get to see a specialist within a week. MRIs are organised within the week and the results given by a doctor there and then. Blood tests and results are same day.. I can go on.
The NHS needs changing radically, a two tier system for those who can pay and then the rest - Welcome to the modern world.
The NHS lives and breathes the empathy card 'What if a relative/friend/neighbour/colleague got something nasty etc etc'. All I've witnessed is lack of accountability and basic care that even third world countries can provide. If nurses and doctors could make a career out of being scarce, then we've certainly hit the jackpot
By every source I can find, France spends a greater percentage of GDP on health than the UK, and a significant amount more per capita.I live in rural France, I get seen by my GP the next day, I get to see a specialist within a week. MRIs are organised within the week and the results given by a doctor there and then. Blood tests and results are same day.. I can go on.
The NHS needs changing radically, a two tier system for those who can pay and then the rest - Welcome to the modern world.
The NHS lives and breathes the empathy card 'What if a relative/friend/neighbour/colleague got something nasty etc etc'. All I've witnessed is lack of accountability and basic care that even third world countries can provide. If nurses and doctors could make a career out of being scarce, then we've certainly hit the jackpot
As well as having a very different general population health.
TCruise said:
Admitted by ambulance, live saving treatment - there's lots there to be thankful for absolutely.
Everything after that a shambles.
Doctors clearly told issues that were seen, they ignored them.
Doctors discharged saying the issue they were informed of was moderate.
Felt awful. Back and forth with GP.
One month to see a specialist, apparently.
Constantly phoning for an appointment.
See the specialist doctor after 6 weeks.
Refers to another doctor.
Trying to get an appointment with this guy, even worse. Took a month, but constant phoning, never responding to messages.
"I'll pass the message on, she's working at home" - told that numerous times, no one ever EVER got back to me.
Phoned and phoned. Basically begging in terms for an appointment. No one will tell you anything, no names nothing.
You never speak to the same person ever. No responsibility. Zero care. Constant fobbing off.
Get an appointment. With ANOTHER specialist. It lasts 12mins. He tried to make it last less.
He basically tried to say, your old, go away.
He then refers on to ANOTHER specialist!
More phoning, no response. Basically told 3 months for an appointment.
Decide to go Private. See the same doctor within a week.
Doctor says you should NEVER have been released from hospital when you were admitted by ambulance - that was nearly 3.5 months earlier.
How did they not spot this issue?
Have an op. Paid for on the NHS. I get the Op quickly, because I'm paying to see the surgeon privately (Op is on the NHS)
Get told it is important I have a follow up with the surgeon.
They forget to give me all the medicine that it says they would on my discharge report.
Try to get a follow up. Phoning and phoning. Guess what, they now never pick up the phone.
I phone using a different number, they pick up, and fob me off.
Now, they've sent a letter, saying post-op my GP is to sort it all out.
GP is shocked, and says he's not a surgeon.
Guess what, pay private, can see my surgeon next week...
The lack of care shown is unbelievable.
If it wasn't for a partner able to beg and constantly phone...
It's like they are just fobbing you off, and if you die - so what.
Imagine type the above. Imagine how you feel when someone who is employed to help, shows you ZERO care.
When people simply do not bother. I'm sorry, I don't buy that all these people are too busy. Especially the moment private is mentioned things happen instantly,and the level of care shown by THE SAME people is entirely different.
It is absolutely appalling.
You'll get your third booster on time though.Everything after that a shambles.
Doctors clearly told issues that were seen, they ignored them.
Doctors discharged saying the issue they were informed of was moderate.
Felt awful. Back and forth with GP.
One month to see a specialist, apparently.
Constantly phoning for an appointment.
See the specialist doctor after 6 weeks.
Refers to another doctor.
Trying to get an appointment with this guy, even worse. Took a month, but constant phoning, never responding to messages.
"I'll pass the message on, she's working at home" - told that numerous times, no one ever EVER got back to me.
Phoned and phoned. Basically begging in terms for an appointment. No one will tell you anything, no names nothing.
You never speak to the same person ever. No responsibility. Zero care. Constant fobbing off.
Get an appointment. With ANOTHER specialist. It lasts 12mins. He tried to make it last less.
He basically tried to say, your old, go away.
He then refers on to ANOTHER specialist!
More phoning, no response. Basically told 3 months for an appointment.
Decide to go Private. See the same doctor within a week.
Doctor says you should NEVER have been released from hospital when you were admitted by ambulance - that was nearly 3.5 months earlier.
How did they not spot this issue?
Have an op. Paid for on the NHS. I get the Op quickly, because I'm paying to see the surgeon privately (Op is on the NHS)
Get told it is important I have a follow up with the surgeon.
They forget to give me all the medicine that it says they would on my discharge report.
Try to get a follow up. Phoning and phoning. Guess what, they now never pick up the phone.
I phone using a different number, they pick up, and fob me off.
Now, they've sent a letter, saying post-op my GP is to sort it all out.
GP is shocked, and says he's not a surgeon.
Guess what, pay private, can see my surgeon next week...
The lack of care shown is unbelievable.
If it wasn't for a partner able to beg and constantly phone...
It's like they are just fobbing you off, and if you die - so what.
Imagine type the above. Imagine how you feel when someone who is employed to help, shows you ZERO care.
When people simply do not bother. I'm sorry, I don't buy that all these people are too busy. Especially the moment private is mentioned things happen instantly,and the level of care shown by THE SAME people is entirely different.
It is absolutely appalling.
Priorities.
Hugo Stiglitz said:
Alot of the time is taken up treating people who have willfully allowed themselves to become a physical train wreck from a relative young age onwards
It's true we have serious issues with obesity, smoking, alcohol abuse, gambling abuse, air pollution and wider mental health issues. But that's the population the NHS is expected to serve, and so should be funded accordingly.The NHS can only do so much in reducing the causes of these issues. They are for society and government to fix, of we choose.
Hugo Stiglitz said:
And the many individuals with mental health who often take a ambulance crew etc multiple times a week. Every week, for years.
More often it's the police dealing with such people, which is definitely not the right approach. Unfortunately, failure to address mental health issues nearly always results in impacts to physical health.Unfortunately by going private, you are justifying the government's approach, which is to starve the NHS to ruin.
I can't blame you, you have to look after number 1, but this is the way it has been heading for years.
There is no investment in people at all, all resources go towards just maintaining a bare minimum of service, there isn't much else on top, and this is what happens. Many people in the NHS get into their jobs for the right reasons, but get worn down over time by a system that fails to support them in their role, and sometimes actively works against them.
I can't blame you, you have to look after number 1, but this is the way it has been heading for years.
There is no investment in people at all, all resources go towards just maintaining a bare minimum of service, there isn't much else on top, and this is what happens. Many people in the NHS get into their jobs for the right reasons, but get worn down over time by a system that fails to support them in their role, and sometimes actively works against them.
Hugo Stiglitz said:
Evanivitch said:
So the critically under funded system isn't performing well, what a surprise...
It's not underfunded. It's a combination of can't be bothered and the patients being the issue. Alot of the time is taken up treating people who have willfully allowed themselves to become a physical train wreck from a relative young age onwards
And the many individuals with mental health who often take a ambulance crew etc multiple times a week. Every week, for years.
I've experienced the NHS as a patient. It was awful.
They refused to scan my elbow. Sorry you're here for your wrist today. It'll be another consultation and follow up scan if you want one (MONTHS).
Outside in the waiting room for scans were approx 10-20 people. All I'd class as obese.
My own experience is pretty much that of OP.
No one takes ownership of the patients health issue and the many great nurses that do exist are swamped by others who just go with the flow and that flow is ultra inefficient and ineffective. Things don’t get done, get done twice, get forgotten, and with multiple shift changes and lack of communication this all leads to way less than any standard we expect.
The whole GP situation is the same, they’re still hiding behind phone consultations and fobbing off. 3+ weeks for an appointment unless you can prove to the receptionist in a ten minute persuasion exercise that your knob has gone blue then you get it the same day. Goodness knows how the meek ever get seen. If any more effort is needed by the practice to improve from abysmal I have no doubt they will be demanding more funding.
I’m really sorry to be saying this, but it reflects my own experiences. My view on those that are happy with their treatment: you were very lucky.
No one takes ownership of the patients health issue and the many great nurses that do exist are swamped by others who just go with the flow and that flow is ultra inefficient and ineffective. Things don’t get done, get done twice, get forgotten, and with multiple shift changes and lack of communication this all leads to way less than any standard we expect.
The whole GP situation is the same, they’re still hiding behind phone consultations and fobbing off. 3+ weeks for an appointment unless you can prove to the receptionist in a ten minute persuasion exercise that your knob has gone blue then you get it the same day. Goodness knows how the meek ever get seen. If any more effort is needed by the practice to improve from abysmal I have no doubt they will be demanding more funding.
I’m really sorry to be saying this, but it reflects my own experiences. My view on those that are happy with their treatment: you were very lucky.
To add my own connotation.
I recently visited the hospital with recurrent abdominal pains on my RIGHT hand side. After an exceedingly long wait to see the consultant who referred me back for a a day surgery diagnosis procedure. When i met the doctor he asked me about the pains on my LEFT side. Que some confused looks as he went through the notes to find my GP referall said right side pain, consultant said left side pain. and the day surgery doctor telling me that the sigmoidoscopy i was booked in for would be pointless as it only shows the right side of the large intestine.
Good thing that only took 5 months and the people who I trust my health with struggle with left and right.
I recently visited the hospital with recurrent abdominal pains on my RIGHT hand side. After an exceedingly long wait to see the consultant who referred me back for a a day surgery diagnosis procedure. When i met the doctor he asked me about the pains on my LEFT side. Que some confused looks as he went through the notes to find my GP referall said right side pain, consultant said left side pain. and the day surgery doctor telling me that the sigmoidoscopy i was booked in for would be pointless as it only shows the right side of the large intestine.
Good thing that only took 5 months and the people who I trust my health with struggle with left and right.
At the start of the year I fractured my foot and it took the hospital hours to find me some crutches.when they finally turned up they were different sizes and the nurses response was "well were half way there". At this point it was 2 in the morning so just left with one crutch because It had taken long enough already and was tired and fed up. To finish it off the guy at the door wouldn't push me to the taxi in the wheelchair "because of covid" so had to hobble to the taxi with crutch in one hand and football shoe in the other.
It may not sound that bad but if a hospital can't come up with a pair of crutches in under an hour then I think theres something wrong
It may not sound that bad but if a hospital can't come up with a pair of crutches in under an hour then I think theres something wrong
Ryyy said:
At the start of the year I fractured my foot and it took the hospital hours to find me some crutches.when they finally turned up they were different sizes and the nurses response was "well were half way there". At this point it was 2 in the morning so just left with one crutch because It had taken long enough already and was tired and fed up. To finish it off the guy at the door wouldn't push me to the taxi in the wheelchair "because of covid" so had to hobble to the taxi with crutch in one hand and football shoe in the other.
It may not sound that bad but if a hospital can't come up with a pair of crutches in under an hour then I think theres something wrong
Wait until you need a hearing aid in a hospital with an audiology department... no, completely impossible.It may not sound that bad but if a hospital can't come up with a pair of crutches in under an hour then I think theres something wrong
Evanivitch said:
So the critically under funded system isn't performing well, what a surprise...
Ballpark, what has it close you? Probably a few hundred in consultant appointments. Private surgery and ambulance would have cost nearly £10k easily.
Medicine, the latest medicine, can be expensive yes.Ballpark, what has it close you? Probably a few hundred in consultant appointments. Private surgery and ambulance would have cost nearly £10k easily.
Care, as in picking up the phone, which the OP is complaining about, is very, very cheap.
There’s no excuses. Politicians only want to make more and more ridiculous spending pledges. Outcomes, measurable outcomes, that’s what politicians need to promise.
Evanivitch said:
So the critically under funded system isn't performing well, what a surprise...
Ballpark, what has it close you? Probably a few hundred in consultant appointments. Private surgery and ambulance would have cost nearly £10k easily.
I wish people would stop peddling this crap. The NHS isn’t under funded. They get a bucket load of money. What they do with that money is grossly negligent but addressing/admitting that is the main issue here. Ballpark, what has it close you? Probably a few hundred in consultant appointments. Private surgery and ambulance would have cost nearly £10k easily.
OP I fully agree with you. It’s turned into a joke. My father had to use the NHS for a prolonged period of time around 15-20 years ago and it saved his life and the service was incredible. He had to use it recently for something minor and it’s a stark difference from what it used to be. No doubt in my mind if it was this level of service 20 years ago my dad wouldn’t be around. Simple as that.
Chamon_Lee said:
Evanivitch said:
So the critically under funded system isn't performing well, what a surprise...
Ballpark, what has it close you? Probably a few hundred in consultant appointments. Private surgery and ambulance would have cost nearly £10k easily.
I wish people would stop peddling this crap. The NHS isn’t under funded. They get a bucket load of money. What they do with that money is grossly negligent but addressing/admitting that is the main issue here. Ballpark, what has it close you? Probably a few hundred in consultant appointments. Private surgery and ambulance would have cost nearly £10k easily.
OP I fully agree with you. It’s turned into a joke. My father had to use the NHS for a prolonged period of time around 15-20 years ago and it saved his life and the service was incredible. He had to use it recently for something minor and it’s a stark difference from what it used to be. No doubt in my mind if it was this level of service 20 years ago my dad wouldn’t be around. Simple as that.
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