Unpopular opinion - NHS is useless

Unpopular opinion - NHS is useless

Author
Discussion

ATG

20,578 posts

272 months

Tuesday 19th July 2022
quotequote all
The reality is that we have a shortage of trained medical staff and that is a combination of the availability of training, the careers failing to attract new recruits into the NHS, and the pay and working conditions being inadequate to retain existing staff.

In no other industry would anyone immediately conclude "too much money being wasted". The obvious conclusion is "salaries too low to attract and retain staff, leading to a downward spiral where short-staffing makes the jobs even less attractive."

Unsurprisingly a huge chunk of the NHS budget goes to pay its staff, so if you want to put up the salaries to deal with the staff shortages, you're going to have to increase funding materially.

Also the "GPs are hiding" idea is properly silly. Yes, you mighty want a face to face consultation, but if it is possible to deal with you over the phone or by talking to a nurse, then that's a far better outcome overall. Doctors and nurses are the scarce resources in the system. There's no shortage of patients. The objectives is to make the very best use of clinicians' time, not that of the patients. If that means patients having to queue up or accept a phone call rather than an in-person appointment, tough.

Johnnytheboy

24,498 posts

186 months

Tuesday 19th July 2022
quotequote all
Mojooo said:
Point is the NHS was better in 2010 before all the cutbacks.

So it can be better.
All what cutbacks?


anonymous-user

54 months

Tuesday 19th July 2022
quotequote all
Ryyy said:
At the start of the year I fractured my foot and it took the hospital hours to find me some crutches.when they finally turned up they were different sizes and the nurses response was "well were half way there". At this point it was 2 in the morning so just left with one crutch because It had taken long enough already and was tired and fed up. To finish it off the guy at the door wouldn't push me to the taxi in the wheelchair "because of covid" so had to hobble to the taxi with crutch in one hand and football shoe in the other.

It may not sound that bad but if a hospital can't come up with a pair of crutches in under an hour then I think theres something wrong wobble
Good luck with trying to get a second crutch, you’ll be making phone calls into the ether like OP and eventually be told come in. When you go in you’ll be theran hour

Evanivitch

20,094 posts

122 months

Tuesday 19th July 2022
quotequote all
Chamon_Lee said:
Evanivitch said:
So the critically under funded system isn't performing well, what a surprise...

Ballpark, what has it close you? Probably a few hundred in consultant appointments. Private surgery and ambulance would have cost nearly £10k easily.
I wish people would stop peddling this crap. The NHS isn’t under funded. They get a bucket load of money. What they do with that money is grossly negligent but addressing/admitting that is the main issue here.
I'm struggling to find a bucketful in any of the statistics that highlight the NHS is as efficient as other universal healthcare systems globally and receives less funding per capita.

anonymous-user

54 months

Tuesday 19th July 2022
quotequote all
Ryyy said:
At the start of the year I fractured my foot and it took the hospital hours to find me some crutches.when they finally turned up they were different sizes and the nurses response was "well were half way there". At this point it was 2 in the morning so just left with one crutch because It had taken long enough already and was tired and fed up. To finish it off the guy at the door wouldn't push me to the taxi in the wheelchair "because of covid" so had to hobble to the taxi with crutch in one hand and football shoe in the other.

It may not sound that bad but if a hospital can't come up with a pair of crutches in under an hour then I think theres something wrong wobble
Good luck with trying to get a second crutch, you’ll probably be making phone calls into the ether like OP and eventually be told come in. When you go in you’ll be there an hour while they have no record of you calling so they start from scratch while someone hunts around for where the non existent crutch store might be.

When you’ve finished with them there will be no system for returning them and when you do the staff aren’t happy as they don’t know where to put them.

(Albeit experience from my GP surgery)

TCruise

Original Poster:

581 posts

91 months

Tuesday 19th July 2022
quotequote all
If they spent more time doing the work and less time passing from one person to the next, each fobbing you off, they would actually use their own resources better and get more done.

The chain of people who have to see before you, referring you from one doctor to another doctor, to eventually get to the person you actually need to see, that is absurd. I've never had similar on private.

It wastes doctors time, and it takes months, by which time a patient could die.


Nurburgsingh

5,120 posts

238 months

Tuesday 19th July 2022
quotequote all
The amount of the funding for the NHS that gets spent well before it’s arrives at the coal face where the general see it is what needs to be changed.

Evanivitch

20,094 posts

122 months

Tuesday 19th July 2022
quotequote all
Largechris said:
Care, as in picking up the phone, which the OP is complaining about, is very, very cheap.
Is it? NHS 111 takes 2 million calls a month, answers 75% within 60 seconds, and includes non-medical and medical staff.

And then there's the GP surgeries that are staffed by just a few members of staff and face a constant flurry of calls every day from 8am as they try to balance scheduled and unscheduled medical appointments.

And then are you expecting consultants to answer their own calls? Or do you think someone is paid for that service?

V8covin

7,322 posts

193 months

Tuesday 19th July 2022
quotequote all
If you talk to any of the nurses and doctors who work on the front line they are usually in agreement that the problems stem from poor management and their lack of accountability,rather than a lack of funding.
There's a big problem with bed blocking, patients who are well enough to be discharged but nowhere for them to go ie they need further care but the places they used to go to no longer exist

Ouroboros

2,371 posts

39 months

Tuesday 19th July 2022
quotequote all
My gp is ace.

My dermatologist is good but only see him once every 2 years. The nurses are a bit computer says no attitude, I had to change hospitals though to get decent treatment.

I think you have to be realistic and a lot of waiting. I can't afford to go private but in the long run I got the same treatments.

My experience of the NHS last 19 years when needed them.




joshcowin

6,809 posts

176 months

Tuesday 19th July 2022
quotequote all
And here is the problem with the NHS no one has a clue how it works, how it's supposed to work, if it recieves enough money or how efficiently that money is spent!

NHS has been amazing for my family, I am not talking walking sticks and hearing aids sorry but get some perspective, big life changing incidents and diagnosis dealt with on the whole very well. They seem to excel at cancer treatment especially in out local trust.

Ryyy

1,492 posts

35 months

Tuesday 19th July 2022
quotequote all
V6 Pushfit said:
When you’ve finished with them there will be no system for returning them and when you do the staff aren’t happy as they don’t know where to put them.

(Albeit experience from my GP surgery)
Hit the nail on the head. Bonkers.

Bill

52,781 posts

255 months

Tuesday 19th July 2022
quotequote all
Ryyy said:
V6 Pushfit said:
When you’ve finished with them there will be no system for returning them and when you do the staff aren’t happy as they don’t know where to put them.

(Albeit experience from my GP surgery)
Hit the nail on the head. Bonkers.
A brand new pair of crutches is £10.

What's bonkers is people moaning incessantly about the NHS with zero understanding of what's involved.

Evanivitch

20,094 posts

122 months

Tuesday 19th July 2022
quotequote all
Ryyy said:
V6 Pushfit said:
When you’ve finished with them there will be no system for returning them and when you do the staff aren’t happy as they don’t know where to put them.

(Albeit experience from my GP surgery)
Hit the nail on the head. Bonkers.
Crutches are considered single use. They're cheap (£15 a pair). It would cost more to inspect and return to stores.

https://www.completecareshop.co.uk/mobility-aids/c...

dundarach

5,045 posts

228 months

Tuesday 19th July 2022
quotequote all
Very much like the realisation that rich people are still greedy.

Once you appreciate the NHS raison d'etre is:

1 Are you dying
2 Are you not going to die through something we can do
3 Has whatever we've done prevented you dying right now
4 Will moving you on cause you to start dying again

The NHS suddenly makes more sense.


PurplePangolin

2,839 posts

33 months

Tuesday 19th July 2022
quotequote all
V6 Pushfit said:
My own experience is pretty much that of OP.

No one takes ownership of the patients health issue and the many great nurses that do exist are swamped by others who just go with the flow and that flow is ultra inefficient and ineffective. Things don’t get done, get done twice, get forgotten, and with multiple shift changes and lack of communication this all leads to way less than any standard we expect.

The whole GP situation is the same, they’re still hiding behind phone consultations and fobbing off. 3+ weeks for an appointment unless you can prove to the receptionist in a ten minute persuasion exercise that your knob has gone blue then you get it the same day. Goodness knows how the meek ever get seen. If any more effort is needed by the practice to improve from abysmal I have no doubt they will be demanding more funding.

I’m really sorry to be saying this, but it reflects my own experiences. My view on those that are happy with their treatment: you were very lucky.
Unfortunately a lot of patients don’t take ownership of their own (chronic) health problems and expect someone else to sort it out without input from themselves.

They expect a pill to sort it and for them to carry on as before.

NHS management needs a radical change - some of the people in charge of the money aren’t fit to buy a bag of crisps at Tesco.

sam greenock

294 posts

120 months

Tuesday 19th July 2022
quotequote all
Using our family experience only - I can declare that private medicine is sh!te - here's why..

A few years back wife used her work's private medical insurance to have some tests done on her digestive system - she had a colonoscopy in a private hospital.
Went in as a day patient, discharged that afternoon - a Friday - still very uncomfortable and in pain overnight, next morning I called hospital back - they weren't really interested - said wait until Tuesday, is still bad go and see her GP.
Phoned a few times Saturday and Sunday - her consultant phoned after we complained to hospital - he was dis-interested and repeated hospital advice.

By Sunday afternoon she was in again - phoned emergency GP- he came out within an hour - spotted right away that she had a suspected perforated bowel, blue-lighted to hospital in ambulance. NHS Hospital called out their main consultant to operate on her and sort it out - ironically turned out he was the arrogant tt who carried out the colonoscopy.
We met up with him a few weeks later for a catchup consultation - he was still an arrogant tt and more or less blamed the wife - I pointed out that he was a bawbag

We later heard from a friend he was at a function and seated near this guy when he got called away urgently to the hospital - said he was panic stricken

The NHS saved her life, especially the emergency GP and his quick thinking - anyone involved in private medicine or promoting it can go fk themselves - our family has many reasons to thank the NHS and fk all to thank private medicine for

Largechris

2,019 posts

91 months

Tuesday 19th July 2022
quotequote all
Evanivitch said:
Largechris said:
Care, as in picking up the phone, which the OP is complaining about, is very, very cheap.
Is it? NHS 111 takes 2 million calls a month, answers 75% within 60 seconds, and includes non-medical and medical staff.

And then there's the GP surgeries that are staffed by just a few members of staff and face a constant flurry of calls every day from 8am as they try to balance scheduled and unscheduled medical appointments.

And then are you expecting consultants to answer their own calls? Or do you think someone is paid for that service?
Read the OP again and tell me, with a straight face, that there is any excuse for all that and that funding is the problem.

Grossly OVER resourced admin departments that can pass patients around endlessly is closer to the truth.

Kermit power

28,655 posts

213 months

Tuesday 19th July 2022
quotequote all
grumbledoak said:
OP, if you had posted a thread about how you paid a plumber in advance and now you are flooded you can't get him to answer the phone, half the posts would be ROFLs. Yet that is how we must continue to pay for our Glorious Socialist Healthcare.

It won't change. A great many people are getting what they want from it now. Just not the patients.
Utter rubbish. If there's one area that should be socialist, it's healthcare, as it's perfectly reasonable to share the cost of medical treatment.

The biggest problem we have is the fact that State pension age hasn't kept in line with life expectancy. Too many people have been able to retire too young, then sit around developing expensive chronic health conditions. If people were working to 75 before getting the State pension, they'd stay healthier for longer plus there'd be more money to pay for the NHS in the first place.

Evanivitch

20,094 posts

122 months

Tuesday 19th July 2022
quotequote all
Largechris said:
Read the OP again and tell me, with a straight face, that there is any excuse for all that and that funding is the problem.

Grossly OVER resourced admin departments that can pass patients around endlessly is closer to the truth.
Over-resourced? laugh

Quite the opposite in many cases. Under staffed, under trained and under pressure. Funding fixes 2 of those 3 directly.