Unpopular opinion - NHS is useless
Discussion
Slowboathome said:
That's interesting. Thank you.
The perverse world of pharmaceutical companies and pricing strategies. Similar to rebates for using certain drugs because they can't front load discounts to pricing otherwise other countries would want the same. NICE/NHS are pretty good at driving hard bargains on drugs. Look at the recent story about cystic fibrosis drugs being consulted as to whether they are cost effective. I suspect the real reason is they want the manufacturer to cut their price drastically and will sweeten it by agreeing to approve their new CF drugs which are in phase III trials now and will be another game changer.
pavarotti1980 said:
Slowboathome said:
That's interesting. Thank you.
The perverse world of pharmaceutical companies and pricing strategies. Similar to rebates for using certain drugs because they can't front load discounts to pricing otherwise other countries would want the same. NICE/NHS are pretty good at driving hard bargains on drugs. Look at the recent story about cystic fibrosis drugs being consulted as to whether they are cost effective. I suspect the real reason is they want the manufacturer to cut their price drastically and will sweeten it by agreeing to approve their new CF drugs which are in phase III trials now and will be another game changer.
To give you an idea how much drug companies hate this kind of scrutiny, similar bodies were labelled "Death Panels" all through the Obamacare PR war in the US.
In the US, the scales are tipped so far in favor of Pharma companies and insurers you would laugh. Things that the NHS negotiates pricing for in millions you are forced to buy in units of "1" as a consumer from pharma companies at outrageous rates. My son gets chemo monthly and its billed at $25,000 per dose.
Wadeski said:
And let's be clear - NICE would be the FIRST thing that would be aboloshied in a privatized (or semi-privatized) health care system. For anyone that doesn't know, NICE is the panel of senior medics (and their very smart staffing teams - I know some of them from uni) who call out drug company BS and decide which drugs show real efficacy, and which are value for money.
To give you an idea how much drug companies hate this kind of scrutiny, similar bodies were labelled "Death Panels" all through the Obamacare PR war in the US.
In the US, the scales are tipped so far in favor of Pharma companies and insurers you would laugh. Things that the NHS negotiates pricing for in millions you are forced to buy in units of "1" as a consumer from pharma companies at outrageous rates. My son gets chemo monthly and its billed at $25,000 per dose.
There are more attractive funding models than the one used in the US.To give you an idea how much drug companies hate this kind of scrutiny, similar bodies were labelled "Death Panels" all through the Obamacare PR war in the US.
In the US, the scales are tipped so far in favor of Pharma companies and insurers you would laugh. Things that the NHS negotiates pricing for in millions you are forced to buy in units of "1" as a consumer from pharma companies at outrageous rates. My son gets chemo monthly and its billed at $25,000 per dose.
What makes you think that NICE would be abolished if the UK moved towards an alternative model?
Wadeski said:
Because Pharma and insurance lobbyists look at 170 billion of sweet, sweet UK healthcare opportunity like this guy:
And abolished is too extreme. Why make the political point of abolishing it when you can make it toothless, while claiming it is doing a bad job?
That's not an explanation. That's just a description of the cost of healthcare in the UK.And abolished is too extreme. Why make the political point of abolishing it when you can make it toothless, while claiming it is doing a bad job?
What makes you think the funding models used by Canada, Germany and France are so inferior to the one in the UK?
Wadeski said:
My son gets chemo monthly and its billed at $25,000 per dose.
There is a junior 'pay' thread going already. But the pay of doctors in the US is interesting.https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/08/04...
Slowboathome said:
That's not an explanation. That's just a description of the cost of healthcare in the UK.
What makes you think the funding models used by Canada, Germany and France are so inferior to the one in the UK?
How about we increase NHS funding to the same level per capita/as a % GDP, and match the investment those countries' systems have had?What makes you think the funding models used by Canada, Germany and France are so inferior to the one in the UK?
Then we'll see if the NHS failings are due to inefficiency or simple lack of investment.
Bill said:
How about we increase NHS funding to the same level per capita/as a % GDP, and match the investment those countries' systems have had?
Then we'll see if the NHS failings are due to inefficiency or simple lack of investment.
How about we do that in exchange for a mixed funding approach? There's a reason we're the only country taking our approach to funding healthcare.Then we'll see if the NHS failings are due to inefficiency or simple lack of investment.
We're the only ones with vision??
Until the NHS is funded to match the comparison countries you're comparing apples with oranges.
And until we can rely on the government to run anything more complicated than a bath I think we should keep plodding on. There's a good .chance we end up with something even less efficient than the US system.
Until the NHS is funded to match the comparison countries you're comparing apples with oranges.
And until we can rely on the government to run anything more complicated than a bath I think we should keep plodding on. There's a good .chance we end up with something even less efficient than the US system.
Bill said:
We're the only ones with vision??
Until the NHS is funded to match the comparison countries you're comparing apples with oranges.
And until we can rely on the government to run anything more complicated than a bath I think we should keep plodding on. There's a good .chance we end up with something even less efficient than the US system.
And yet surprisingly makes healthcare Nabobs of a few key Tory donors...Until the NHS is funded to match the comparison countries you're comparing apples with oranges.
And until we can rely on the government to run anything more complicated than a bath I think we should keep plodding on. There's a good .chance we end up with something even less efficient than the US system.
Bill said:
We're the only ones with vision??
Until the NHS is funded to match the comparison countries you're comparing apples with oranges.
And until we can rely on the government to run anything more complicated than a bath I think we should keep plodding on. There's a good .chance we end up with something even less efficient than the US system.
We had a vision in the 1940s. Until the NHS is funded to match the comparison countries you're comparing apples with oranges.
And until we can rely on the government to run anything more complicated than a bath I think we should keep plodding on. There's a good .chance we end up with something even less efficient than the US system.
Other countries seem to manage a mixed funding model. What makes you think we should continue with a service run almost entirely by the government?
Slowboathome said:
We had a vision in the 1940s.
Other countries seem to manage a mixed funding model. What makes you think we should continue with a service run almost entirely by the government?
Because I'm not convinced it's less efficient than the alternative. The systems you mention are better on many levels, but they're also more expensive.Other countries seem to manage a mixed funding model. What makes you think we should continue with a service run almost entirely by the government?
Megaflow said:
Boing...
I have been waiting for an ENT appointment for well over a year. Finally got some acknowledgement of that today... It was a text message directing me to an online for to say I had been waiting for a while, do I still need it!
WTAF.
While infuriating, I imagine the % of people who just get better and forget to cancel appointments is significant I have been waiting for an ENT appointment for well over a year. Finally got some acknowledgement of that today... It was a text message directing me to an online for to say I had been waiting for a while, do I still need it!
WTAF.
Megaflow said:
Boing...
I have been waiting for an ENT appointment for well over a year. Finally got some acknowledgement of that today... It was a text message directing me to an online for to say I had been waiting for a while, do I still need it!
WTAF.
My doctor told me 2 1/2 yrs wait for a ent appointment but as I’d been discharged previously for noI have been waiting for an ENT appointment for well over a year. Finally got some acknowledgement of that today... It was a text message directing me to an online for to say I had been waiting for a while, do I still need it!
WTAF.
Apparent reason she was hopeful it would be sooner , turned out to months .
Nb my suspicions are I was discharged as I had a phone call I believe from ent consultant & I
Couldn’t understand a word he was saying ( blue tooth in lorry or sat nav / ear piece are terrible ) so said ring me in 1/2 hr I’ll pull over , but as I couldn’t understand him , I doubt he could me , so maybe he thought I was being awkward & just discharged me .
Wadeski said:
Megaflow said:
Boing...
I have been waiting for an ENT appointment for well over a year. Finally got some acknowledgement of that today... It was a text message directing me to an online for to say I had been waiting for a while, do I still need it!
WTAF.
While infuriating, I imagine the % of people who just get better and forget to cancel appointments is significant I have been waiting for an ENT appointment for well over a year. Finally got some acknowledgement of that today... It was a text message directing me to an online for to say I had been waiting for a while, do I still need it!
WTAF.
Mr Pointy said:
Wadeski said:
Megaflow said:
Boing...
I have been waiting for an ENT appointment for well over a year. Finally got some acknowledgement of that today... It was a text message directing me to an online for to say I had been waiting for a while, do I still need it!
WTAF.
While infuriating, I imagine the % of people who just get better and forget to cancel appointments is significant I have been waiting for an ENT appointment for well over a year. Finally got some acknowledgement of that today... It was a text message directing me to an online for to say I had been waiting for a while, do I still need it!
WTAF.
14,000 dying needlessly in England every year waiting in A&E for up to 12 hours helps too.
Every death matters...
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/aug/30/na...
At this point in time it wouldn’t surprise me if they are making people wait until they get bored of waiting or kark it…
It’s become a national embarrassment, I firmly believe you could double the budget overnight and it would make fuxk all difference. The management of it is so bad.
It’s become a national embarrassment, I firmly believe you could double the budget overnight and it would make fuxk all difference. The management of it is so bad.
Unfortunately most folks only give a 2nd thought to the state of the nhs when they need it, and are increasingly find its not there, or what they expected it might be.
The reality is that we how have access to interventions that show better outcomes ( in general) in larger numbers and in many cases conditions that were incurable now have management options. Unfortunately more patients want more stuff and funding has not kept pace with all this. Over the last 10- 15 years things have become increasingly stretched. They keep telling us that funding is at an all time high, but equally curlywurlies are at an all time high price.
The reality is that we how have access to interventions that show better outcomes ( in general) in larger numbers and in many cases conditions that were incurable now have management options. Unfortunately more patients want more stuff and funding has not kept pace with all this. Over the last 10- 15 years things have become increasingly stretched. They keep telling us that funding is at an all time high, but equally curlywurlies are at an all time high price.
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