RE: New Tesla Model 3 Performance gets 510hp
Discussion
I find it hilarious that some ICE diehards cast aspersions at owners of EV's. For one thing, many people who currently drive EV's have had plenty of ICE cars in the past. And some of us have both EV and ICE at the same time.
When I look back at the history of this place (PH), I cant help but marvel at how attitudes change. So many people used to hate on Lexus (some still do), but they seem to have almost begrudgingly claimed a share of the PH church, for reasons that are now pretty well understood.
And the same goes for an ICE cars aspiration. How long ago did we all moan about how cars should only ever be NA, and RWD. Yet today, even that holy grail, the m series of bmw's, are turbo AWD. Lets not forget porsche. In fact, it looks like much of the world has gone turbo, AWD, automatic, and hybrid. Heresy!
Go back not so far, and that was sacrilege.
Things change. And even those today who moan about EV's will come around.
It is, inEVitable.
When I look back at the history of this place (PH), I cant help but marvel at how attitudes change. So many people used to hate on Lexus (some still do), but they seem to have almost begrudgingly claimed a share of the PH church, for reasons that are now pretty well understood.
And the same goes for an ICE cars aspiration. How long ago did we all moan about how cars should only ever be NA, and RWD. Yet today, even that holy grail, the m series of bmw's, are turbo AWD. Lets not forget porsche. In fact, it looks like much of the world has gone turbo, AWD, automatic, and hybrid. Heresy!
Go back not so far, and that was sacrilege.
Things change. And even those today who moan about EV's will come around.
It is, inEVitable.
big_rob_sydney said:
How long ago did we all moan about how cars should only ever be NA, and RWD. Yet today, even that holy grail, the m series of bmw's, are turbo AWD. Lets not forget porsche. In fact, it looks like much of the world has gone turbo, AWD, automatic, and hybrid. Heresy!
Power wars have kept everything increasing to the point where 500bhp today is 500bhp from 2000 rpm to redline, peak torque everywhere else and delivery that older NA engines could never dream of. As a result, I suspect many modern 500bhp cars would be borderline undriveable without AWD.One thing I think is a great change on this thread is people are starting to talk about cars as cars as cars again.
It’s a nice change from it’s an EV so immune from criticism and makes it better than every ICE.
Just because a car is electric doesn’t make it instantly good. Vice versa with ICE.
It’s a nice change from it’s an EV so immune from criticism and makes it better than every ICE.
Just because a car is electric doesn’t make it instantly good. Vice versa with ICE.
If it doesn't interest you why post? Comes across a bit grumpy old man shouting at clouds to me.
People who are into EVs should sod off to here:
https://www.speakev.com/
But then pistonheads would have to change its name to modern classics and then classics. No it wouldn't...Pistonheads have clearly made the choice to embrace EV's.
911Spanker said:
delta0 said:
911Spanker said:
Tindersticks said:
There are a lot of people who have no interest in EV's who seem to spend a lot of time in EV threads telling everyone that.
Every single thread on PH seems to about the hateful things...People who are into EVs should sod off to here:
https://www.speakev.com/
cerb4.5lee said:
I don't see a lot of that on here though in fairness, and on here they tend to get touted as the "best car in the world" and the "best thing since sliced bread" for some reason.
I personally prefer honesty though, and if something is crap, then say that it is crap I reckon. Who in the right mind would ever think that a Tesla competes with a BMW/Merc for example? It is laughable for me.
Why laughable - I don't see much difference and drive BMWs and a Tesla on a regular basis - whats the difference, whats it meant to be competing with in your mind?I personally prefer honesty though, and if something is crap, then say that it is crap I reckon. Who in the right mind would ever think that a Tesla competes with a BMW/Merc for example? It is laughable for me.
I think thats just brand snobbery - when actually a fair bit of both of those marques are underpinned with other car parts too. I mean the Mercedes pick up which was short lived was a Navara underneath.
Puzzles said:
If it doesn't interest you why post? Comes across a bit grumpy old man shouting at clouds to me.
People who are into EVs should sod off to here:
https://www.speakev.com/
But then pistonheads would have to change its name to modern classics and then classics. No it wouldn't...Pistonheads have clearly made the choice to embrace EV's.
Choice you say...? 911Spanker said:
delta0 said:
911Spanker said:
Tindersticks said:
There are a lot of people who have no interest in EV's who seem to spend a lot of time in EV threads telling everyone that.
Every single thread on PH seems to about the hateful things...People who are into EVs should sod off to here:
https://www.speakev.com/
Baldchap said:
Those of us that have owned them know they're badly built, the customer service is awful and the cars are disappointing to drive in many cases (and I have driven the fastest ones of them all barring the Y). One trick pony is the phrase that springs to mind and there's currently a class action building steam over Tesla's fraudulent activity around selling FSD.
Those of us who have owned them KNOW they are not superior in many respects to the incumbent manufacturers like BMW/Merc/Porsch.
I currently own and run a Model X as my daily driver/dogwagon, and I have to say that I largley agree with this.Those of us who have owned them KNOW they are not superior in many respects to the incumbent manufacturers like BMW/Merc/Porsch.
For what it's worth, my experience of the customer service has been excellent, mind you, and so far it has proved totally reliable, but apart from that, and the straight-line performance, my previous daily driver (a Jaguar XF Sportbrake) was superior in every way: better built, much better interior quality, much better handling, much better ride quality, the Jag is quieter at speed (that was a surprise!), and I got on with the more conventional instruments and switchgear better than I am with the Tesla's.
Perhaps surprisingly, the thing I was most worried about - range - has turned out not to be a problem at all, despite me doing regular trips of circa 800 miles over a 48 hour period (the car's endurance exceeds my own, it turns out, so I'm ready for a break and a stretch of legs before the car needs to charge).
I can live with the shonky interior plastics, but the thing that has bugged me more than anything is the ride quality, which is simply dreadful: we're talking Audi levels of awfulness, here... not not a patch on the Jaguar's ride/handling compromise, which is excellent.
The Tesla's one huge benefit is running cost: mine has unlimited free supercharging, still, so I can go pretty much anywhere using the Tesla Supercharger network for literally nothing, and it's more tax efficient. Without that benefit (and the XF's occasional reliability glitches), I'd say that the Jaguar was the superior car in every respect.
If Tesla commissioned Lotus to sort out their ride and handling, it might be a very different story, however (and perhaps the Model 3 is better... I haven't driven one, because it wouldn't meet my needs).
Ironically - and Lee won't like me for saying this - the car it most reminds me of is my old TVR Griffith. It may seem strange to be comparing a 7-seat SUV to a 2-seat V8 sportscar, but they share the same mix of dramatic straight-line performance combined with absolutely shambolic, drunken-warthog-on-rollerskates level of ride and handling. He should try one - he might like it.
carlo996 said:
Interesting. I'd be giving someone like Nitron, or Intrax a call.
I really couldn't be arsed: I actually used to make part of my living doing race car chassis and suspension set-up, but I've got better things to do with my life (and my money) than re-engineering the suspension on a daily driver.Edited by Equus on Sunday 28th April 17:57
911Spanker said:
Not for me they aren't. I am not into modern cars and I can't ever see a time I will drive a Tesla.
Saying that, maybe when they sink to being £2k station s
tter territory (probably 2 years away) I may consider one but that's about it.
They hold no appeal whatsoever. I want a car, not a transportation device.
Fair cop but that puts you in the minority....Saying that, maybe when they sink to being £2k station s
tter territory (probably 2 years away) I may consider one but that's about it.They hold no appeal whatsoever. I want a car, not a transportation device.
Equus said:
I really couldn't be arsed: I actually used to make part of my living doing race car chassis and suspension set-up, but I've got better things to do with my life (and my money) than re-engineering the suspension on a daily driver.
I am really sensitive to sEdited by Equus on Sunday 28th April 17:57
t ride quality and poor dampers on road cars. I don't find the Model 3 that bad in Austria, but I think it'd be a different kettle of fish on our terrible roads. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff