RE: All-weather fast saloons | Six of the Best
Discussion
CDP said:
Fords of that period were so cheaply made that at 100,000 miles it would be pretty tatty.
You’d be surprised we used to sell used sierras when they were quite new and we had loads that came with zero history at 3 to 5 years old that had done well over 100k some of those cars were absolutely spotless and drove like they’d done 30,000 miles. Things like wear to drivers side seat belt, pedal rubbers and a shiny steering wheel were the best way to spot they’d been clocked. Most of these were company cars when new and were clocking up mega miles in their first 3 years and the cars could easily cope.30 years later would be impossible to tell about its early life without proper history.
Last xr4x4 I had was over 20 years ago was a one owner car I think I paid £300 for it and used it for a couple of years ( was a great tow car for the rally car) but nothing special to drive they felt heavy and numb and they drive nothing like a cosworth which felt totally different car to drive.
Would be an interesting thing at £6k max.
rallycross said:
Last xr4x4 I had was over 20 years ago was a one owner car I think I paid £300 for it and used it for a couple of years ( was a great tow car for the rally car) but nothing special to drive they felt heavy and numb and they drive nothing like a cosworth which felt totally different car to drive.
Yes and I'd agree with that as well. My closest mate had a couple of stage 1 tuned RWD Sapphire Cosworths, and the were a different gravy to drive in comparison to the XR4x4 for sure. I'll always have a soft spot for the XR4x4. I learnt to drive in one, and then duly introduced it to a lampost several months after passing my test. Was an E Reg 2.8i.
The 60:40 torque split of the AWD system meant perfect wide Donuts in snowy carparks.
Also, love the B5 RS4. Old man had one and my only mistake was not buying it off him at the time, when he traded it in for the all new R8. Such a damn nice car, and for me, the last of the nice Audi interiors.
I did buy the R8 off him though.
The 60:40 torque split of the AWD system meant perfect wide Donuts in snowy carparks.
Also, love the B5 RS4. Old man had one and my only mistake was not buying it off him at the time, when he traded it in for the all new R8. Such a damn nice car, and for me, the last of the nice Audi interiors.
I did buy the R8 off him though.
Edited by Wab1974uk on Sunday 28th April 14:00
cerb4.5lee said:
rallycross said:
Last xr4x4 I had was over 20 years ago was a one owner car I think I paid £300 for it and used it for a couple of years ( was a great tow car for the rally car) but nothing special to drive they felt heavy and numb and they drive nothing like a cosworth which felt totally different car to drive.
Yes and I'd agree with that as well. My closest mate had a couple of stage 1 tuned RWD Sapphire Cosworths, and the were a different gravy to drive in comparison to the XR4x4 for sure. They shift fairly well even with the long Minker diffs in
A couple of pics of my old 2.9 XR4x4's. 
I absolutely loved them at the time for sure. I had the F plate first, but I sold that to buy a house. I then realised that I could still afford one, so I bought the G plate one, and I had that for 5.5 years up until a chap in a Mondeo ran a red light and crashed into me writing it off sadly.
I absolutely loved them at the time for sure. I had the F plate first, but I sold that to buy a house. I then realised that I could still afford one, so I bought the G plate one, and I had that for 5.5 years up until a chap in a Mondeo ran a red light and crashed into me writing it off sadly.
s m said:
Definitely needs the TT280 or even the 320 conversion I’d agree Lee
They shift fairly well even with the long Minker diffs in
I know that I've told this story before, but the turbo technics XR4x4 reminds me of a traffic light GP I had once with one. They shift fairly well even with the long Minker diffs in
I was sat at the lights and a red one rolled up alongside me with a lady driving it(I didn't realise it was a twin turbo until the next set of lights). I fancied my chances off the lights using my normal technique of winding it up to the redline in first, and then dropping the clutch. However the lights changed, and she absolutely battered me!
I caught her back up at the next set of lights, and I then noticed the boost gauge just above the glove box. She put her window down, and she said "you did quite well, but this is twin turbocharged!". So I just drove off with my tail between my legs after that!
My RS4 was transformed by a visit to MRC in Banbury for a carbon clean (much needed) and map to stage two. The drive back was night and day to the journey down; MRC really know their stuff.
Yes, they’re not epically fast by modern standards (though I call BS on the ‘beaten by a 123d Series 1’ fairytale), but as a fast point-to-point load lugger they’re very entertaining and capable. I’ve a 340i Touring that’s a good all-rounder, but it’s always the RS4 I grab the keys for if I want to come back with a smile on my face.
Yes, they’re not epically fast by modern standards (though I call BS on the ‘beaten by a 123d Series 1’ fairytale), but as a fast point-to-point load lugger they’re very entertaining and capable. I’ve a 340i Touring that’s a good all-rounder, but it’s always the RS4 I grab the keys for if I want to come back with a smile on my face.
cerb4.5lee said:
s m said:
Definitely needs the TT280 or even the 320 conversion I’d agree Lee
They shift fairly well even with the long Minker diffs in
I know that I've told this story before, but the turbo technics XR4x4 reminds me of a traffic light GP I had once with one. They shift fairly well even with the long Minker diffs in
I was sat at the lights and a red one rolled up alongside me with a lady driving it(I didn't realise it was a twin turbo until the next set of lights). I fancied my chances off the lights using my normal technique of winding it up to the redline in first, and then dropping the clutch. However the lights changed, and she absolutely battered me!
I caught her back up at the next set of lights, and I then noticed the boost gauge just above the glove box. She put her window down, and she said "you did quite well, but this is twin turbocharged!". So I just drove off with my tail between my legs after that!
The twin turbo conversions were often compared performance wise with stuff like Lambos and Testarossas Lee
They shift pretty well for a normal looking 5-door car!
Firebobby said:
Some nice motors there. Had a sierra albeit an earlier 2.8 version, about as quick as sluggy the slug sliding over a lettuce leaf! Also had an Impreza and an Evo again not the same versions as here but more or less the same. In their day fantastic cars, great point to point and in the traffic light grand Prix. RS4, I was in a garage owning friend's who is a very competent driver and I'm sorry to say I was massively underwhelmed! We were left for dead in a 123d 1 series as he spotted us in his RV mirror and floored it, leaving us struggling to get anywhere near him at legal Rd speeds. Needless to say the RS was quickly sold on.
That RS4 was deffo broken.... a 123d has no chance at any speed against an RS4... I've had both... lol
donkmeister said:
Firebobby said:
119 said:
Firebobby said:
S We were left for dead in a 123d 1 series as he spotted us in his RV mirror and floored it, leaving us struggling to get anywhere near him at legal Rd speeds. Needless to say the RS was quickly sold on.
Reads like your friend needs to learn how to use an N/A engine.Anyhoo, M5 for me.
Whereas with something like the NA V8 in an RS4 you have an elegant sufficiency of torque for wafting and bumbling through town using 10% of the performance, then when you have had enough of the 123d that's been up your chuff in the 30 you get it in the right gear pass the derestricter and make the BMW get small, quickly.
If your mate was actually trying to have a play he should have been in the right gear for some acceleration!
That says a whole lot about the poster... lol... RS4's are awesome and were made to do illegal things... They just happen to do the daily thing ok to.... if your a bit soft and in love with the law... dont get one.. As it will be sluggish and crap on fuel... oh.. and you will get smoked by 123d's from 20 - 40mph
MyV10BarksAndBites said:
Exactly... A lot of these people just can't afford to drive those cars as properly intended... These engines rev to 8k... and he just complained about using 5.....
That says a whole lot about the poster... lol... RS4's are awesome and were made to do illegal things... They just happen to do the daily thing ok to.... if your a bit soft and in love with the law... dont get one.. As it will be sluggish and crap on fuel... oh.. and you will get smoked by 123d's from 20 - 40mph
They are crap compared to the 2.9 TT though. That says a whole lot about the poster... lol... RS4's are awesome and were made to do illegal things... They just happen to do the daily thing ok to.... if your a bit soft and in love with the law... dont get one.. As it will be sluggish and crap on fuel... oh.. and you will get smoked by 123d's from 20 - 40mph
Anyone who suggests otherwise hasn't driven both.
And yes I owned it.
The XR4x4 ended at £11,500 by the way. £1000 below minimum estimate so I don't know if it made reserve. No idea if there are auction fees on top of that. Its nice, its low mileage but Jesus wept. Even as an XR4x4 owner myself that is stupid. Lockdown money kinda level.
By the way, if anyone has one and thinks the steering and handling is meh, when the bushes on the front suspension fail (they will, they are made of potato or something and last at most 2 years) put on some Poly versions. They make a whole lot of difference for no detectable worsening of NVH.
By the way, if anyone has one and thinks the steering and handling is meh, when the bushes on the front suspension fail (they will, they are made of potato or something and last at most 2 years) put on some Poly versions. They make a whole lot of difference for no detectable worsening of NVH.
Baldchap said:
They're very different animals TBH.
The B5 is more naturally an RS6 competitor, so straight away you have 450bhp Vs 621bhp, so clearly the RS4 wasn't as quick, but once you're over 400bhp everything is fast enough and the pace graph obviously flattens out.
I liked the RS4 a lot, but my wife hated the ride quality. Not as bad as the AMG Mercs, but as a passenger it was pretty unpleasant TBH. Rear headroom wasn't amazing and our teenager at the time complained a lot. The boot was also smaller than the Golf Estate it replaced.
We test drove the Alpina and it was the ride quality that sold it. We drive to Spain regularly so over a ten hour day in the car that difference in ride and noise makes a huge difference. I'd say the Alpina has a better put together interior too. 20k now and still no rattles or similar.
They're arguably for different things. I think Audi sort of target laptimes, whereas the Alpina feels like a road car in its purpose. Don't get me wrong, it can hustle and it absolutely does handle, but it never feels scrappy over bumps, you never hear an 'Ouch' when you hit a pothole, as was experienced in the RS4.
Whereas the RS4 was rapid, the Alpina doesn't really feel like it's trying until about 80mph, at which point it's almost like it says 'Oh, we're doing this again, come on then' and all of a sudden chucks the horizon behind you. To put it in context, 800Nm of torque is more than the 5.0 V10 TDI that Top Gear towed a plane with.
Massive boot, really nicely put together, absolutely f
king massively rapid and all day comfortable. I have and do regularly do 1000km days back to back with zero complaints.
Can you tell I like it?
Both lovely cars. I find my B9.5 to ride better than previous BMW and Mercedes, it’s almost ‘magic carpet’ like, but that’s thanks to Dynamic Ride Control (which can be a pain to maintain). The B5 is more naturally an RS6 competitor, so straight away you have 450bhp Vs 621bhp, so clearly the RS4 wasn't as quick, but once you're over 400bhp everything is fast enough and the pace graph obviously flattens out.
I liked the RS4 a lot, but my wife hated the ride quality. Not as bad as the AMG Mercs, but as a passenger it was pretty unpleasant TBH. Rear headroom wasn't amazing and our teenager at the time complained a lot. The boot was also smaller than the Golf Estate it replaced.
We test drove the Alpina and it was the ride quality that sold it. We drive to Spain regularly so over a ten hour day in the car that difference in ride and noise makes a huge difference. I'd say the Alpina has a better put together interior too. 20k now and still no rattles or similar.
They're arguably for different things. I think Audi sort of target laptimes, whereas the Alpina feels like a road car in its purpose. Don't get me wrong, it can hustle and it absolutely does handle, but it never feels scrappy over bumps, you never hear an 'Ouch' when you hit a pothole, as was experienced in the RS4.
Whereas the RS4 was rapid, the Alpina doesn't really feel like it's trying until about 80mph, at which point it's almost like it says 'Oh, we're doing this again, come on then' and all of a sudden chucks the horizon behind you. To put it in context, 800Nm of torque is more than the 5.0 V10 TDI that Top Gear towed a plane with.
Massive boot, really nicely put together, absolutely f
king massively rapid and all day comfortable. I have and do regularly do 1000km days back to back with zero complaints.Can you tell I like it?
I was very close to getting a B3, ride quality was the biggest attraction.
Edited by JAMSXR on Sunday 28th April 22:40
cerb4.5lee said:
A couple of pics of my old 2.9 XR4x4's.
I absolutely loved them at the time for sure. I had the F plate first, but I sold that to buy a house. I then realised that I could still afford one, so I bought the G plate one, and I had that for 5.5 years up until a chap in a Mondeo ran a red light and crashed into me writing it off sadly.
That sounds just like my 2.8 Capri history. I absolutely loved them at the time for sure. I had the F plate first, but I sold that to buy a house. I then realised that I could still afford one, so I bought the G plate one, and I had that for 5.5 years up until a chap in a Mondeo ran a red light and crashed into me writing it off sadly.
I sold the first one for a house deposit then a couple of years later I bought the next one!
Did a track day at Silverstone in the 90s with a mate who supplied a Sierra XR4x4 Estate, XR4i and Sapphire Cosworth.
The Cossie was way quicker, until the head gasket blew! The XR4i was miles better than the 4x4 which just felt lardy.
But an 80s car is never going to compare well on performance with anything decades newer.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff