EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
Ankh87 said:
biggbn said:
braddo said:
If I could have something like this outside my house I would probably buy a PHEV.
Exactly this. You can't exactly leave it out because it'll get run over or someone will trip over it which opens up a nice compensation case.
Really don't see this is as a huge engineering challenge to solve.
silentbrown said:
Ankh87 said:
Where does the cable go once used? If it goes back under the path, then what about water and dirt getting into the cable. Also how do you get it out from under the path?
You can't exactly leave it out because it'll get run over or someone will trip over it which opens up a nice compensation case.
You can't exactly leave it out because it'll get run over or someone will trip over it which opens up a nice compensation case.
Ah so the cable goes back into your property. That's good for those who can do that and have no drive. Only issue is those who have no garden to do that but it's a good idea.
Also to add that if you think the council are able to clean them out like they do drains, as it stands councils can't even do that and they are all going bankrupt. So sending the cleaners out isn't going to be a priority.
Also to add that if you think the council are able to clean them out like they do drains, as it stands councils can't even do that and they are all going bankrupt. So sending the cleaners out isn't going to be a priority.
Ankh87 said:
Ah so the cable goes back into your property. That's good for those who can do that and have no drive. Only issue is those who have no garden to do that but it's a good idea.
Also to add that if you think the council are able to clean them out like they do drains, as it stands councils can't even do that and they are all going bankrupt. So sending the cleaners out isn't going to be a priority.
I think the idea is that it would take the householder 2 minutes to do themselves, once in a blue moon.Also to add that if you think the council are able to clean them out like they do drains, as it stands councils can't even do that and they are all going bankrupt. So sending the cleaners out isn't going to be a priority.
As someone who claims to be neutral on EVs, you do seem to be enormously keen to seek out imaginary problems.
Ankh87 said:
Ah so the cable goes back into your property. That's good for those who can do that and have no drive. Only issue is those who have no garden to do that but it's a good idea.
Also to add that if you think the council are able to clean them out like they do drains, as it stands councils can't even do that and they are all going bankrupt. So sending the cleaners out isn't going to be a priority.
AIUI it's yours, not the councils. So you clean it yourself.Also to add that if you think the council are able to clean them out like they do drains, as it stands councils can't even do that and they are all going bankrupt. So sending the cleaners out isn't going to be a priority.
Ankh87 said:
biggbn said:
braddo said:
If I could have something like this outside my house I would probably buy a PHEV.
Exactly this. You can't exactly leave it out because it'll get run over or someone will trip over it which opens up a nice compensation case.
Cant work and wont work.
So you have a cable from your house to the pavement. But you dont own the road. Anyone can park there. And will.
And it blatently obvious, no one is goint to lift the over to put the cable away on a dark wet december night. Cue leads trailing all over pavements.
It has no relevance as in idea in real life, and is no solution to on street charging.
But only poor people will have this problem. So as some said early, no ones cares. Which is a pretty accurate summary.
FiF said:
Not going to get into the question of whether there is any deliberate aim to reduce car use or ownership. Or changes to location of housing and workplace.
But the earlier quoted comments just illustrate the deliberate lack of thought about the process. If there are lots of suitable spaces in council estates they will have been included in the research into the existing possible spaces as mentioned. Are there plans to roll it out?
Then you have the councils who when asked admit that they have no current activity to consider this issue going forward and furthermore have no plans to do so.
Secondly maybe some councils are considering channels across the pavement from terraced housing to the kerb. It rather assumes that the resident will always be able to park in 'their' space when they want or need to, even if it's only once or twice a week.
Then there is the it's a 20+ year phased process. Well yes it is practically to get to ~100%, but the reality that in less than 6 years the market will have to have changed markedly, and that's without whatever shambles Labour manages to change or actions they are quietly keeping up their sleeves.
As for poor people aren't being forced to buy EVs, well nobody is being forced, and won't be for a long long time. Yet the phased transformation does depend on somebody buying them so the used versions filter down. Further concerns may be raised in that direction by the boss of the 4th largest by sales carmaker in the world suggesting that as things are the market condition is unsustainable, they are not going to sell cars at a loss and could withdraw brands from the UK market.
So far suspect leaving it all to the market, both in terms of sales and charging infrastructure is teetering towards must try harder.
Why is it a "council" problem?But the earlier quoted comments just illustrate the deliberate lack of thought about the process. If there are lots of suitable spaces in council estates they will have been included in the research into the existing possible spaces as mentioned. Are there plans to roll it out?
Then you have the councils who when asked admit that they have no current activity to consider this issue going forward and furthermore have no plans to do so.
Secondly maybe some councils are considering channels across the pavement from terraced housing to the kerb. It rather assumes that the resident will always be able to park in 'their' space when they want or need to, even if it's only once or twice a week.
Then there is the it's a 20+ year phased process. Well yes it is practically to get to ~100%, but the reality that in less than 6 years the market will have to have changed markedly, and that's without whatever shambles Labour manages to change or actions they are quietly keeping up their sleeves.
As for poor people aren't being forced to buy EVs, well nobody is being forced, and won't be for a long long time. Yet the phased transformation does depend on somebody buying them so the used versions filter down. Further concerns may be raised in that direction by the boss of the 4th largest by sales carmaker in the world suggesting that as things are the market condition is unsustainable, they are not going to sell cars at a loss and could withdraw brands from the UK market.
So far suspect leaving it all to the market, both in terms of sales and charging infrastructure is teetering towards must try harder.
And does anyone really think councils are any part of the solution? They cant even manage and deliver the most basic of services, being short of cash, and populated mostly by incompetents.
But they are going to roll out major on street charging programs? Simply laughable.
otolith said:
None of these problems are beyond the wit of man. If we're going to f
k up the atmosphere because we can't get our st together and think our way round this stuff, perhaps we deserve it.
Im sure there is a solution, but this nonsense isnt it.k up the atmosphere because we can't get our st together and think our way round this stuff, perhaps we deserve it.Im still waiting for someone to come up with a sensible one. Given the alledged urgency, one might assume that government would driving the search for a solution? Cant say ive seen any evidence, but that not to say its doesnt exist.
monkfish1 said:
Exactly, this solution is delusional twaddle.
Cant work and wont work.
So you have a cable from your house to the pavement. But you dont own the road. Anyone can park there. And will.
And it blatently obvious, no one is goint to lift the over to put the cable away on a dark wet december night. Cue leads trailing all over pavements.
It has no relevance as in idea in real life, and is no solution to on street charging.
But only poor people will have this problem. So as some said early, no ones cares. Which is a pretty accurate summary.
Then just visit your local DC fast charger station say every 9 days going from 10-80% in under 20 minutes adding 180 miles each time (while you shop). that's your 7,000 miles which is the UK average. Competition will probably by then have brought public rates down to well below the equivalent price of petrol as a bonus.Cant work and wont work.
So you have a cable from your house to the pavement. But you dont own the road. Anyone can park there. And will.
And it blatently obvious, no one is goint to lift the over to put the cable away on a dark wet december night. Cue leads trailing all over pavements.
It has no relevance as in idea in real life, and is no solution to on street charging.
But only poor people will have this problem. So as some said early, no ones cares. Which is a pretty accurate summary.
TheRainMaker said:
740EVTORQUES said:
Its funny how enthusiastic drivers (which is what I consider myself to be) can come to diametrically different conclusions!
It is.I have just passed the 400+BHP EV to the other half as I find it dull to drive and a bit pointless. I now have an i3s, and I'm much happier bombing about it than that (probably because it is not as good technically so I need to drive it to get the most out of it).
I found all the "performance" EVs a waste of time, tbh (not driven a Kia), with no driver involvement in any way. My 8-year-old can drive them as fast as I can, and they take no skill whatsoever.
My ICE is a nicer and more involved drive for when I actually want to drive (there is no need for a track), while the EV is perfect for running to the dump, taking kids to school, going to the shops or driving in London.
I have had EVs for nearly three years now and have never taken them out just for a drive.
You can't beat an early morning Sunday run.
Edited by TheRainMaker on Friday 26th April 12:24
monkfish1 said:
Why is it a "council" problem?
And does anyone really think councils are any part of the solution? They cant even manage and deliver the most basic of services, being short of cash, and populated mostly by incompetents.
But they are going to roll out major on street charging programs? Simply laughable.
The poster claimed there were lots of spaces on council estates. There are also lots of council owned car parks. Whose problem is it in those circumstances and why would the council not be part of any solution?And does anyone really think councils are any part of the solution? They cant even manage and deliver the most basic of services, being short of cash, and populated mostly by incompetents.
But they are going to roll out major on street charging programs? Simply laughable.
Sometimes I wonder what some people including councils use to keep their ears apart.
monkfish1 said:
Exactly, this solution is delusional twaddle.
Cant work and wont work.
So you have a cable from your house to the pavement. But you dont own the road. Anyone can park there. And will.
And it blatently obvious, no one is goint to lift the over to put the cable away on a dark wet december night. Cue leads trailing all over pavements.
It has no relevance as in idea in real life, and is no solution to on street charging.
But only poor people will have this problem. So as some said early, no ones cares. Which is a pretty accurate summary.
What?! Cant work and wont work.
So you have a cable from your house to the pavement. But you dont own the road. Anyone can park there. And will.
And it blatently obvious, no one is goint to lift the over to put the cable away on a dark wet december night. Cue leads trailing all over pavements.
It has no relevance as in idea in real life, and is no solution to on street charging.
But only poor people will have this problem. So as some said early, no ones cares. Which is a pretty accurate summary.
That solution is ridiculously simple - connect cable to house, lay the cable in the trough, connect cable to car. Next morning, disconnect cable and put inside car or house.
Those charging cables are worth money, no-one is going to leave them out when not in use (unless they are complete idiots). Most people won't need to charge more than once per week.
There will need to be a bit of collective thinking about how to manage on-street parking and for apartment car parks. These are not problems that threaten the viability of EVs.
Also, there are hundreds of thousands of terraced houses in the UK that are worth £1m+. This is not about the poor being neglected in the EV transition...
braddo said:
What?!
That solution is ridiculously simple - connect cable to house, lay the cable in the trough, connect cable to car. Next morning, disconnect cable and put inside car or house.
Those charging cables are worth money, no-one is going to leave them out when not in use (unless they are complete idiots). Most people won't need to charge more than once per week.
There will need to be a bit of collective thinking about how to manage on-street parking and for apartment car parks. These are not problems that threaten the viability of EVs.
Also, there are hundreds of thousands of terraced houses in the UK that are worth £1m+. This is not about the poor being neglected in the EV transition...
On-street parking isn't as simple as you think it is. Everyone wants to park outside their home regardless if they have one or multiple cars. I've seen it first hand where even those who have this issue and have one car per household, there's still not enough on-street parking. Cars are having to be parked on the next street. That solution is ridiculously simple - connect cable to house, lay the cable in the trough, connect cable to car. Next morning, disconnect cable and put inside car or house.
Those charging cables are worth money, no-one is going to leave them out when not in use (unless they are complete idiots). Most people won't need to charge more than once per week.
There will need to be a bit of collective thinking about how to manage on-street parking and for apartment car parks. These are not problems that threaten the viability of EVs.
Also, there are hundreds of thousands of terraced houses in the UK that are worth £1m+. This is not about the poor being neglected in the EV transition...
When it comes to on-street parking, you'll find that people are not reasonable or rational about this at all. Even now, where there isn't really a need to be parked outside their house as they are not charging their cars. This isn't going to change in the future, if anything it's going to be far worse. Especially when cars are parked just that 2 meters further down, making all the other cars further down, meaning the cable won't reach. Or if someone goes from say a small hatchback to a big long Skoda Superb. Stupid things like that have a knock on effect.
Just like now, when I go to the in-laws if I want to be parked on their street, then I take a risk because there is no off-street parking at all. So I take the partners tiny Kia because I know that if there is a space, it's usually just big enough for that car. If I take mine then every time I go to the in-laws I have to park 2 streets away because that's where there is space. It's a complete pain.
What it comes down to is that people are selfish and really do not give a hoot.
I would like to add, that even digging up the path just to lay this cable is going to cost at least £500. That's before even paying to have the thing installed.
monkfish1 said:
Ankh87 said:
biggbn said:
braddo said:
If I could have something like this outside my house I would probably buy a PHEV.
Exactly this. You can't exactly leave it out because it'll get run over or someone will trip over it which opens up a nice compensation case.
Cant work and wont work.
So you have a cable from your house to the pavement. But you dont own the road. Anyone can park there. And will.
And it blatently obvious, no one is goint to lift the over to put the cable away on a dark wet december night. Cue leads trailing all over pavements.
It has no relevance as in idea in real life, and is no solution to on street charging.
But only poor people will have this problem. So as some said early, no ones cares. Which is a pretty accurate summary.
Ankh87 said:
braddo said:
What?!
That solution is ridiculously simple - connect cable to house, lay the cable in the trough, connect cable to car. Next morning, disconnect cable and put inside car or house.
Those charging cables are worth money, no-one is going to leave them out when not in use (unless they are complete idiots). Most people won't need to charge more than once per week.
There will need to be a bit of collective thinking about how to manage on-street parking and for apartment car parks. These are not problems that threaten the viability of EVs.
Also, there are hundreds of thousands of terraced houses in the UK that are worth £1m+. This is not about the poor being neglected in the EV transition...
On-street parking isn't as simple as you think it is. Everyone wants to park outside their home regardless if they have one or multiple cars. I've seen it first hand where even those who have this issue and have one car per household, there's still not enough on-street parking. Cars are having to be parked on the next street. That solution is ridiculously simple - connect cable to house, lay the cable in the trough, connect cable to car. Next morning, disconnect cable and put inside car or house.
Those charging cables are worth money, no-one is going to leave them out when not in use (unless they are complete idiots). Most people won't need to charge more than once per week.
There will need to be a bit of collective thinking about how to manage on-street parking and for apartment car parks. These are not problems that threaten the viability of EVs.
Also, there are hundreds of thousands of terraced houses in the UK that are worth £1m+. This is not about the poor being neglected in the EV transition...
When it comes to on-street parking, you'll find that people are not reasonable or rational about this at all. Even now, where there isn't really a need to be parked outside their house as they are not charging their cars. This isn't going to change in the future, if anything it's going to be far worse. Especially when cars are parked just that 2 meters further down, making all the other cars further down, meaning the cable won't reach. Or if someone goes from say a small hatchback to a big long Skoda Superb. Stupid things like that have a knock on effect.
Just like now, when I go to the in-laws if I want to be parked on their street, then I take a risk because there is no off-street parking at all. So I take the partners tiny Kia because I know that if there is a space, it's usually just big enough for that car. If I take mine then every time I go to the in-laws I have to park 2 streets away because that's where there is space. It's a complete pain.
What it comes down to is that people are selfish and really do not give a hoot.
I would like to add, that even digging up the path just to lay this cable is going to cost at least £500. That's before even paying to have the thing installed.
Ankh87 said:
On-street parking isn't as simple as you think it is.
I live in London, with only on-street parking for the past 20 years. Where I live it is not as you describe.It should be obvious that the footpath trench is just one cheap option, that will often work but not always.
Other solutions include retractable bollard charging points that disappear into the ground when not in use. With those and the ones connected to street lights, there could be a solution to use these public points but be charged on your home electricity bill (at home rates, not the current expensive rates). Someone on here recently mentioned that is possible today (costs aside) with using an Octopus Energy card to use public charging points.
It is all solvable and the nation has 15 years for it to evolve. However, leaving it to market forces would be stupid. It needs some planning.
braddo said:
It is all solvable and the nation has 15 years for it to evolve. However, leaving it to market forces would be stupid. It needs some planning.
Which is exactly my point, it needs consideration and planning.It is not an argument against EVs as some like to make out. It is simply recognising where things are heading and setting stall out to lessen bumps in the road.
The other point is that yes there are 15 year, say, for the graduated change but leaving it 10/12 years until concerted action is just stupid. But then politicians.
braddo said:
It is all solvable and the nation has 15 years for it to evolve. However, leaving it to market forces would be stupid. It needs some planning.
Planning?There's over 1.7m electric or hybrid cars in the UK and 'they' still can't set up a public charging network that is reliable.
Granted, it's early days, but if this is down to collective 'planning' then we're doomed.
braddo said:
Ankh87 said:
On-street parking isn't as simple as you think it is.
I live in London, with only on-street parking for the past 20 years. Where I live it is not as you describe.It should be obvious that the footpath trench is just one cheap option, that will often work but not always.
Other solutions include retractable bollard charging points that disappear into the ground when not in use. With those and the ones connected to street lights, there could be a solution to use these public points but be charged on your home electricity bill (at home rates, not the current expensive rates). Someone on here recently mentioned that is possible today (costs aside) with using an Octopus Energy card to use public charging points.
It is all solvable and the nation has 15 years for it to evolve. However, leaving it to market forces would be stupid. It needs some planning.
It's similar on my street. My side is the road all have off street parking. The other side of the road is hit and miss. So across the road from me if they all have one or multiple cars, there's no where for them to park without parking opposite a driveway which makes it impossible for me to get off. Factor in the street is narrow, it's basically a 1.5 cars wide. Makes it real pain for everyone getting on and off driveways.
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