EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
survivalist said:
stargazer30 said:
I'm just over a month into ownership on my EV (Mini Cooper SE). I had to drive our other two ICE cars this weekend... Number 2 son's stolen car which is a totally knackered fiesta, this one has the bike racks on and I was hauling bikes, and then the missus ICE Mini Cooper as its a 5 door and I had to drop her and her mates off.
All I can say is I was glad to get back in the EV
It's just nicer in every way.
All that says to me is that small hatchbacks are nicer when powered by an electric motor - and that’s assuming the 2 minis are the same generation model. All I can say is I was glad to get back in the EV
It's just nicer in every way. I drove to the gym today in a 15 year old ICE car with a manual gearbox. It was much better than the EV I own and others I have driven.
Both are compromises, but if I had to choose one it’d be ICE car. Luckily I don’t have to choose, so I just pick the best tool for the job.
RUSTILLDOWN said:
survivalist said:
stargazer30 said:
I'm just over a month into ownership on my EV (Mini Cooper SE). I had to drive our other two ICE cars this weekend... Number 2 son's stolen car which is a totally knackered fiesta, this one has the bike racks on and I was hauling bikes, and then the missus ICE Mini Cooper as its a 5 door and I had to drop her and her mates off.
All I can say is I was glad to get back in the EV It's just nicer in every way.
All that says to me is that small hatchbacks are nicer when powered by an electric motor - and that’s assuming the 2 minis are the same generation model. All I can say is I was glad to get back in the EV
It's just nicer in every way. I drove to the gym today in a 15 year old ICE car with a manual gearbox. It was much better than the EV I own and others I have driven.
Both are compromises, but if I had to choose one it’d be ICE car. Luckily I don’t have to choose, so I just pick the best tool for the job.
Maracus said:
RUSTILLDOWN said:
survivalist said:
stargazer30 said:
I'm just over a month into ownership on my EV (Mini Cooper SE). I had to drive our other two ICE cars this weekend... Number 2 son's stolen car which is a totally knackered fiesta, this one has the bike racks on and I was hauling bikes, and then the missus ICE Mini Cooper as its a 5 door and I had to drop her and her mates off.
All I can say is I was glad to get back in the EV It's just nicer in every way.
All that says to me is that small hatchbacks are nicer when powered by an electric motor - and that’s assuming the 2 minis are the same generation model. All I can say is I was glad to get back in the EV
It's just nicer in every way. I drove to the gym today in a 15 year old ICE car with a manual gearbox. It was much better than the EV I own and others I have driven.
Both are compromises, but if I had to choose one it’d be ICE car. Luckily I don’t have to choose, so I just pick the best tool for the job.
Maybe its a getting older thing, but the EV is a lazy drive. It practically drives itself, and certainly for city driving with all the start stop, lights, junctions etc.. it just takes the grind out of it and you get to enjoy the drive again. Since I got it I've been looking for excuses to drive it.
What I don't get is all the EV hate that's been spouted. The simple fact is they are a better solution than ICE to personal transport. The technology and infrastructure needs to mature more sure. Some folks need an ICE as they need long range and public charging needs to get faster and cheaper. What is plain bonkers is thinking ICE cars are a better long term solution. Its old tech which has been refined to its max but by its nature the design has many compromises, complexities and inefficiencies. Even then that's ignoring the dinosaur in the room (pun intended), that electricity can be generated but oil is going to run out at some point and well before that its going to get very expensive.
stargazer30 said:
What I don't get is all the EV hate that's been spouted. The simple fact is they are a better solution than ICE to personal transport.
I firmly believe EVs are the future for keeping private transport an option. Albeit the availability of private transport will shrink with EV charging availability the catalyst for change (read the Lambeth EV strategy which literally states this).That said it is statements like "fact is they are a better solution than ICE to personal transport" that riles people (like me) that prefer the driving experience of ICE cars as of now. There are also currently scenarios - on street charging, range etc. where EVs are not the best choice. This is well known and in the case of on street charging likely not to be a simple swap of existing ICE for EVs going forward.
I prefer the combination of an ICE auto for easy urban driving and when the opportunity arises for a bit of enjoyment, my experience with EVs is the lack of an engine deters from that experience. It isn't the end of the world and when the time comes I will charge an EV on my drive and have no issues but for now it isn't a "better solution". Others would insist the auto aspect is anathema to driving engagement and a manual is a must, it takes all sorts. 0-60 times and bhp become somewhat irrelevant after a tipping point IMHO to what we consider as enjoyment or sportiness.
For some time we will have a mix of ICE and EVs and the better solution will vary depending upon personal circumstance and choice.
stargazer30 said:
Fiesta's are like coming home to me but sadly my son's fiesta is on its last legs, over 10 years old with 120K+ miles on it.
I think that comes down to maintenance rather than the Fiesta being a bad car. My daughter’s is a 2008 so older, but it’s serviced every year and there’s nothing wrong with it.stargazer30 said:
Yup the 5 door ICE mini is a F55, the new 3 door EV mini is a F56. Same type of mini the only difference other than the drive train is the 3 door/5 door chassis. Make wise, I've always preferred Fords having owned loads of ford hot hatches so Fiesta's are like coming home to me but sadly my son's fiesta is on its last legs, over 10 years old with 120K+ miles on it.
Maybe its a getting older thing, but the EV is a lazy drive. It practically drives itself, and certainly for city driving with all the start stop, lights, junctions etc.. it just takes the grind out of it and you get to enjoy the drive again. Since I got it I've been looking for excuses to drive it.
What I don't get is all the EV hate that's been spouted. The simple fact is they are a better solution than ICE to personal transport. The technology and infrastructure needs to mature more sure. Some folks need an ICE as they need long range and public charging needs to get faster and cheaper. What is plain bonkers is thinking ICE cars are a better long term solution. Its old tech which has been refined to its max but by its nature the design has many compromises, complexities and inefficiencies. Even then that's ignoring the dinosaur in the room (pun intended), that electricity can be generated but oil is going to run out at some point and well before that its going to get very expensive.
A 10 year old car with 120k Mike's shoukd not be on its last legs. My mini is just that and I'd like it to see 200k miles....Maybe its a getting older thing, but the EV is a lazy drive. It practically drives itself, and certainly for city driving with all the start stop, lights, junctions etc.. it just takes the grind out of it and you get to enjoy the drive again. Since I got it I've been looking for excuses to drive it.
What I don't get is all the EV hate that's been spouted. The simple fact is they are a better solution than ICE to personal transport. The technology and infrastructure needs to mature more sure. Some folks need an ICE as they need long range and public charging needs to get faster and cheaper. What is plain bonkers is thinking ICE cars are a better long term solution. Its old tech which has been refined to its max but by its nature the design has many compromises, complexities and inefficiencies. Even then that's ignoring the dinosaur in the room (pun intended), that electricity can be generated but oil is going to run out at some point and well before that its going to get very expensive.
KingGary said:
stargazer30 said:
Fiesta's are like coming home to me but sadly my son's fiesta is on its last legs, over 10 years old with 120K+ miles on it.
I think that comes down to maintenance rather than the Fiesta being a bad car. My daughter’s is a 2008 so older, but it’s serviced every year and there’s nothing wrong with it.Tony33 said:
That said it is statements like "fact is they are a better solution than ICE to personal transport" that riles people (like me) that prefer the driving experience of ICE cars as of now. There are also currently scenarios - on street charging, range etc. where EVs are not the best choice. This is well known and in the case of on street charging likely not to be a simple swap of existing ICE for EVs going forward.
I'm not saying folks shouldn't drive an ICE. Some folks love the engine note, or a manual gear box (I used to be one of them). If they want one, happy for them. What I don't like is the anti EV agenda that seems to be being pushed by certain media outlets. cj2013 said:
M4cruiser said:
Ok, let me make it easier for you
The first part was a genuine question.
The second part was a joke (obviously).
I would have thought the fact that you have to plug something into the side of the vehicle with a big thick dangly trip hazard might have been a bit self evidentThe first part was a genuine question.
The second part was a joke (obviously).
Tony33 said:
Half of all new cars are bought by 55s and over, almost a quarter by the 65s and over.
^ and for the wrong reasons! Slightly O/T but I'd guess that many people use their pension "lump sum" to pay for a new car, and that's the worst thing you can do with the lump sum.If you're going to borrow the money then borrow it from a bank, it's cheaper than borrowing it from your pension.
M4cruiser said:
Tony33 said:
Half of all new cars are bought by 55s and over, almost a quarter by the 65s and over.
^ and for the wrong reasons! Slightly O/T but I'd guess that many people use their pension "lump sum" to pay for a new car, and that's the worst thing you can do with the lump sum.If you're going to borrow the money then borrow it from a bank, it's cheaper than borrowing it from your pension.
stargazer30 said:
Tony33 said:
That said it is statements like "fact is they are a better solution than ICE to personal transport" that riles people (like me) that prefer the driving experience of ICE cars as of now. There are also currently scenarios - on street charging, range etc. where EVs are not the best choice. This is well known and in the case of on street charging likely not to be a simple swap of existing ICE for EVs going forward.
I'm not saying folks shouldn't drive an ICE. Some folks love the engine note, or a manual gear box (I used to be one of them). If they want one, happy for them. What I don't like is the anti EV agenda that seems to be being pushed by certain media outlets. stargazer30 said:
Tony33 said:
That said it is statements like "fact is they are a better solution than ICE to personal transport" that riles people (like me) that prefer the driving experience of ICE cars as of now. There are also currently scenarios - on street charging, range etc. where EVs are not the best choice. This is well known and in the case of on street charging likely not to be a simple swap of existing ICE for EVs going forward.
I'm not saying folks shouldn't drive an ICE. Some folks love the engine note, or a manual gear box (I used to be one of them). If they want one, happy for them. What I don't like is the anti EV agenda that seems to be being pushed by certain media outlets. Mark V GTD said:
Dave200 said:
I took my Tesla on a fairly long trip to visit some friends yesterday evening.
Yes but its a Tesla so it does all that you said. Any other EV would be a lot more stressful!nickfrog said:
M4cruiser said:
^ and for the wrong reasons! Slightly O/T but I'd guess that many people use their pension "lump sum" to pay for a new car, and that's the worst thing you can do with the lump sum.
Maybe you're guessing wrong. Who knows?Small sample in global terms, yes, but a high percentage of the retiring people I work with are buying a car.
M4cruiser said:
nickfrog said:
M4cruiser said:
^ and for the wrong reasons! Slightly O/T but I'd guess that many people use their pension "lump sum" to pay for a new car, and that's the worst thing you can do with the lump sum.
Maybe you're guessing wrong. Who knows?Small sample in global terms, yes, but a high percentage of the retiring people I work with are buying a car.
M4cruiser said:
^ and for the wrong reasons! Slightly O/T but I'd guess that many people use their pension "lump sum" to pay for a new car, and that's the worst thing you can do with the lump sum.
If you're going to borrow the money then borrow it from a bank, it's cheaper than borrowing it from your pension.
Not true if you are a taxpaying pensioner. Only an idiot would spaff a large part of their tax free sum on a depreciating asset. But, if they can afford to, they would be even more of an idiot to borrow the whole sum from a bank. Very unlikely their pension fund would net more than the gross income required to pay off a bank loan.If you're going to borrow the money then borrow it from a bank, it's cheaper than borrowing it from your pension.
Unless they only want to keep the car short term. In which case the money is best left in the pension / spent on something "sensible".
Edited by Discombobulate on Sunday 28th April 16:08
Discombobulate said:
M4cruiser said:
^ and for the wrong reasons! Slightly O/T but I'd guess that many people use their pension "lump sum" to pay for a new car, and that's the worst thing you can do with the lump sum.
If you're going to borrow the money then borrow it from a bank, it's cheaper than borrowing it from your pension.
Not true if you are a taxpaying pensioner. Only an idiot would spaff a large part of their tax free sum on a depreciating asset. But, if they can afford to, they would be even more of an idiot to borrow the whole sum from a bank. Very unlikely their pension fund would net more than the gross income required to pay off a bank loan.If you're going to borrow the money then borrow it from a bank, it's cheaper than borrowing it from your pension.
Unless they only want to keep the car short term. In which case the money is best left in the pension / spent on something "sensible".
Edited by Discombobulate on Sunday 28th April 16:08
In either instance i think its quite reasonable to fund a large purchase from the tfc available especially if the alternative is to borrow the funds.
I could easily argue both for and against using the tfc which confirms to me its not that clear cut.
Do we now ask whether tfc should ever be drawn to pay your mortgage off ?
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