Bump steer on M chassis

Bump steer on M chassis

Author
Discussion

shovel71

22 posts

265 months

Saturday 12th July 2003
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I am at stage of putting all the suspension back on my 2500M and have been following this thread with great interest as I have been trying to solve the bumpsteer as well...You indicate that TR4 arms, yield a 24mm gain, but then you indicateyou had to RAISE the rack 12 MM? Would that not be offsetting the gain you made with the different arms? Or did I misunderstand? Also, were you able to use the original spec arms and tie rod ends, or did you have to source others?
Thanks for any help you can provide...
SD

3154tm

42 posts

258 months

Sunday 13th July 2003
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might there be other ways to solve this problem? how difficult is it to heat and bend the steering arms to the correct height and then retreat the heated area to the correct hardness? could heim joints be used instead of rod ends and then shimmed to the correct height? of course the steering arms would have to be drilled to eliminate the taper in the steering arm bore.
frank

valve

24 posts

284 months

Monday 14th July 2003
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[quote, Has anyone played around with the rear end bump steer?]

Even though I havent measured it I would be surprised if the M have rear bump steer at all as the rear A-arms just move up and down, (the A-arm moving points are parallell to the front rear axis of the car), the only way to get bump steer I would imagine is due to movement in the rubber bushes. Are there anyone who looked into this and actually measured rear bump steer?

Regards Hans

kevinsmeaton

Original Poster:

7 posts

275 months

Tuesday 15th July 2003
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I do not presume to have expert knowledge so please form your own opinion . I shall share our experience as it seems to be mysterious which it is not .
Firstly I would not bother with bumpsteer adjustment if I was only using the car on the road , it is probably close enough , it toes out under bump which probably helps turn in .
You can heat the steering levers and bend them . We did not do this as it would be difficult(for us) to produce two levers exactly the same and we would probably have different characteristics on each . Secondly if the retempering was suspect and steering failure resulted it would be wisdom in hindsight we do not need .
The simplest way would be with rose joints and shims as was suggested . We preferred to keep the tapered ball joint fitting , with the use of rose joints I would think a castellated nut and split pin would be essential as it would work loose in time and may become an issue .
We chose to use the TR4 steering levers because of the following .
They are shorter which improves rack ratio and the tie rods are virtually parallel with the rack . The tie rods left the rack with an angle towards the rear with the TR6 levers .
We have water pipes and oil cooler pipes running under the rack and it was easier to not lower the rack . Experience has taught that three steps forward mean two steps back and we did not wish to cut into chassis only to find we wanted to go back to where we started from , so opted to not cut into chassis .
There is a little bit of work involved , fortunately we have a reasonable engineering and workshop facility.
The TR4 steering arm levers have a smaller taper and will not accept the standard ball joint . We made a simple jig and used a lathe to enlarge the taper to suit . We then shortened the tie rods by 10mm each side . We them machined the threaded section of the ball joints to shorten them by 10mm as well . We then used a bottom thread cutter and took the thread to the full extent inside the threaded section of the ball joint , we then cut the locking nuts on the tie rods in half on lathe . These changes gave us enough adjustment space for toe in/out with tie rod lengths .
We fitted the steering arm levers with left hand side on the right and right hand side on the left , this necessitated making a longer spacer to clear the upright . The old spacer was 24 mm (sic) . we extended it to 33mm and fitted a longer bolt , this was on the bolt closest to the front of the car . we did this to push out the tie rod length and to reduce the ackerman ratio .
The rack then needed to be raised 12mm to achieve minimal bump steer . There was a spacer already under the rack 1.5mm thick , we did not know it was there until we had raised rack 12mm so just put it back in , it may well have been put there in the factory .
We still have not tested car so cannot comment as to driving results but the physics are correct so will be in the ball park . If not happy all the original bits can be refitted very easily and quickly so can go back to where we started very simply .

shovel71

22 posts

265 months

Wednesday 16th July 2003
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Thanks for the details...obviously fairly involved, but may be worth it for extreme use ..tks again

richard sails

810 posts

260 months

Sunday 20th July 2003
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Looks like TR4 arms take a little fettling to make work, the easiest way to remove bump steer is still to fit 15" wheels and tires or lower your suspension until the arms are parallel with the ground.

tank

8 posts

282 months

Monday 1st May 2006
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All I can say is that I have just set my steering arms up as Richard has stated and the bump steer has now gone. Mnay thanks Richard.

Slow M

2,737 posts

207 months

Saturday 20th March 2010
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This is one of my favorite threads on PH!

I recently came across these height adjustable taper pins and thought I'd share the discovery with you.
They may save us all a lot of hard work by not having to custom fabricate bits and/or cut the chassis.
The big question is: are US pin tapers produced at the same pitch/angle as British industry pin tapers were?
US taper pins are 1/4" taper per foot.
What was the British standard?
I'll try to do a bit of homework and find out but if anyone here knows...

B

heightswitch

6,318 posts

251 months

Saturday 20th March 2010
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Slow M said:
This is one of my favorite threads on PH!

I recently came across these height adjustable taper pins and thought I'd share the discovery with you.
They may save us all a lot of hard work by not having to custom fabricate bits and/or cut the chassis.
The big question is: are US pin tapers produced at the same pitch/angle as British industry pin tapers were?
US taper pins are 1/4" taper per foot.
What was the British standard?
I'll try to do a bit of homework and find out but if anyone here knows...

B
doesn't really matter Bernard the steering arms will be easy enough to hone out to the same taper.
They look nice bits of kit!

My car runs with american ball joints at the top.

N

Edited by heightswitch on Saturday 20th March 21:31

Slow M

2,737 posts

207 months

Sunday 21st March 2010
quotequote all
heightswitch said:
doesn't really matter Bernard the steering arms will be easy enough to hone out to the same taper.
They look nice bits of kit!

My car runs with american ball joints at the top.

N

Neil,
You're right! Any decent machinist should have a taper reamer.

B

TVR_owner

3,349 posts

192 months

Monday 22nd March 2010
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I read with interest this study of bumpsteer on the M series, and have to ask, who set the cars up??