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rdjohn
Original Poster
871 posts
64 months
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You are correct; I did not see the SKY coverage. Still in denial.
Lewis could put in fast times more or less as he wanted, all weekend, but he needed decent rubber to do this.
The risk of two-stopping was loosing track position if all the front runners were two-stopping. The dream scenario was convincing the serious contenders, that you could not do a one-stopper. Lewis did this beautifully.
The big risk with a one-stop (option first) was the prime tyres hitting the wall (not of champions), which they did as, when he was in the lead, Lewis allowed them to stay tantalisingly in-touch, but pressing-on.
With these Pirelli tyres the obligation is to drive to deltas and not be tempted into a race. Where you end up at the finish line is determined by the (best-guess) use of the tyres and not necessarily the absolute skills of the team, driver or performance of the car. This is what I believe is fundamentally wrong with the Pirelli tyres.
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London424
2,749 posts
44 months
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rdjohn said: You are correct; I did not see the SKY coverage. Still in denial.
Lewis could put in fast times more or less as he wanted, all weekend, but he needed decent rubber to do this.
The risk of two-stopping was loosing track position if all the front runners were two-stopping. The dream scenario was convincing the serious contenders, that you could not do a one-stopper. Lewis did this beautifully.
The big risk with a one-stop (option first) was the prime tyres hitting the wall (not of champions), which they did as, when he was in the lead, Lewis allowed them to stay tantalisingly in-touch, but pressing-on.
With these Pirelli tyres the obligation is to drive to deltas and not be tempted into a race. Where you end up at the finish line is determined by the (best-guess) use of the tyres and not necessarily the absolute skills of the team, driver or performance of the car. This is what I believe is fundamentally wrong with the Pirelli tyres. I would agree to a point I just think it is a different set of skills than has been used historically. However, they can make indestructible tyres again and we are back to a procession and all of the complaints that followed during that era, so I'll take the show we have for now.
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RYH64E
3,112 posts
113 months
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rdjohn said: loosing How hard is it to spell losing? Lose, losing, lost etc, single o.
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rdjohn
Original Poster
871 posts
64 months
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RYH64E said:  Woops sorrey!
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AlexS
890 posts
101 months
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RYH64E said: I would have much preferred to see Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton fighting to the finish, there is no enjoyment for me in seeing Alonso overtaken so easily due to a combination of DRS and tyres that have just worn out. There is also no enjoyment in seeing a racer like Button lapped because he can't get the tyres to work, tyres should be a very minor part of the show not the deciding factor. The race wasn't just the final pass on Alonso though. It was all about the unfolding strategies of the different teams all coming together over the final laps.
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Scuffers
10,418 posts
143 months
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Richard-G said: Scuffers said: then I must be in the 'beyond' camp.
it's a farce that 2nd and 3rd are there because they drove like grannies all race.
I want to see real racing, NO DRS, no silly tyres. Sorry scuffers, your a valuable forum member but your talking out of your arse. Perez was flying all afternoon. Look at the timing data. ouch! yes, I was watching the timing screen throughout the race, but reconcile this, if his laptimes were so good all the way though, how come he came second when Lewis had one more stop then him (and thus ~+15 seconds more stop time)? and the way Alonso went backwards is just comical, I mean, what's the point? it's not racing, it's eco-driving.
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rdjohn
Original Poster
871 posts
64 months
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Scuffers
10,418 posts
143 months
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that's just laughable... what is says to me is that they know they have issues with consistency, so their only answer it to make a harder (ie. more durable) tyre. I personally think that Horners comments sum it up: Christian Horne said: Red Bull Racing believes Formula 1 teams may never totally get on top of the tyres this season - as a number of outfits chase the secret to having both good qualifying performance as well as long-distance pace in the race.
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Eric Mc
67,261 posts
134 months
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Good.
I don't want engineers getting "on top of" anything in F1. The more they flounder the better it is for us.
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Scuffers
10,418 posts
143 months
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Eric Mc said: Good.
I don't want engineers getting "on top of" anything in F1. The more they flounder the better it is for us. so we are back to this then: 
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Eric Mc
67,261 posts
134 months
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Scuffers
10,418 posts
143 months
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Eric Mc said: Only in your head. well, clearly not as I did not draw that (although I wish I had the skills to have done it!)
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Eric Mc
67,261 posts
134 months
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On the internet you will always find somebody who agrees with you - eventually.
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Scuffers
10,418 posts
143 months
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Eric Mc said: On the internet you will always find somebody who agrees with you - eventually. best keep looking then!
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Eric Mc
67,261 posts
134 months
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If you are advising me to keep looking, there are people right here on PH who share my view. I am not a lone voice you know.
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rdjohn
Original Poster
871 posts
64 months
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Scuffers said: so we are back to this then:  Sort of sums it up perfectly. Though it is perhaps more like 4 Rubik cubes.
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rdjohn
Original Poster
871 posts
64 months
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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100328This is where the future of close racing should be. Capped budgets and enforceable resource restrictions on the numbers of aero devices per annum etc. And some lovely sticky Pirellis. This is the real issue. Engineers need to be given a sensible annual budget. If not sponsors will leave the sport because of lack of viewing figures on pay-TV and races at accessible venues for their guests. CVC is the greatest threat to the sport of F1 – they need it to be a cash cow of a business, hopefully they will not be able to float and so sink in the very near future. A bit of grist from the FIA would also help as share ownership has changed significantly since the phony deal between Max and Bernie was done. They should reclaim ownership of the series.
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Ahonen
3,594 posts
148 months
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rdjohn said: Ahonen said: That's a pretty silly thing to say.
Do you think teams, any teams in any form of racing, plan their strategies based on what a driver from a rival team says in a press conference? F1 teams employ people specifically in order to calculate strategies and study the pace and deg of rival teams in order to try to work out what everyone is up to. They simulate all sorts of race scenarios beforehand and attempt to calculate the ultimate race time based on a massive number of variables: and the 'What Lewis said in the press conference two days ago' algorithm is not one I'm personally familiar with. Part of the strategy is to guess what the opposition will be doing. Miss-information is part of that game. Presumably you missed Gary Anderson say this was a two-stop race before the race. One was possible from the back 11, starting on the harder compound. I guess that Lewis' comment "Are you sure that they are not one-stopping" was said to reinforce the dummy. It was a well deserved win but Lewis' Friday times showed who the most likely winner was going to be, as passing is not difficult in Canada, but the serious opposition FA and SV were wrong-footed and lost the possibility of better placings through their poor choice of strategy. You're right, of course. I've only been a race engineer and strategist for 15 years, so I'm sure you know better than I.
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Eric Mc
67,261 posts
134 months
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So you pay no attention to what the other teams might do? You just run your own race blindly ignoring other teams' stated intentions?
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Ahonen
3,594 posts
148 months
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Eric Mc said: So you pay no attention to what the other teams might do? You just run your own race blindly ignoring other teams' stated intentions? Of course you plan for other teams. As I said above, you try to work out what they're up to also. But what I was largely getting at was the fact that you don't tend to base your strategy on what a driver says in a press conference - although rdjohn has now brought me up to speed, for which I'm grateful.
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