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Ali_T
954 posts
126 months
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Dawsey said: From £53,195 + VAT Are the burger van meals and Sunny Delight included?
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djroadboy
588 posts
105 months
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J-P said: OlberJ said: J-P said: Altrezia said: I dont think you can compare the MX5 cup (20 year old cars, very 'club level') vs a purpose spec-built atom race series with hospitality, and car included, can you? No different ends of the race spectrum! Atom cup looks like a lot of fun - those cars will be very rapid - done well to get 250bhp out of that Civic engine though! Are they that quick though? Not seen many lap times for them. I would have thought they're pretty nippy 450BHP/ton would make them pretty quick. If the brakes are up to scratch and I see no reason why they shouldn't be, then I think it'll be pretty epic! About the same pace as a Caterham R500, I'd guess? Maybe a little quicker as no need to worry about it being uncomfortable for road use? Lol!!! No way will this be anywhere near the same sort of lap times as an R500. They are quick in a straight line but do not go round corners. If this does get off the ground the lap times will be an embarrassment to Ariel. Dan
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J-P
2,486 posts
75 months
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djroadboy said: J-P said: OlberJ said: J-P said: Altrezia said: I dont think you can compare the MX5 cup (20 year old cars, very 'club level') vs a purpose spec-built atom race series with hospitality, and car included, can you? No different ends of the race spectrum! Atom cup looks like a lot of fun - those cars will be very rapid - done well to get 250bhp out of that Civic engine though! Are they that quick though? Not seen many lap times for them. I would have thought they're pretty nippy 450BHP/ton would make them pretty quick. If the brakes are up to scratch and I see no reason why they shouldn't be, then I think it'll be pretty epic! About the same pace as a Caterham R500, I'd guess? Maybe a little quicker as no need to worry about it being uncomfortable for road use? Lol!!! No way will this be anywhere near the same sort of lap times as an R500. They are quick in a straight line but do not go round corners. If this does get off the ground the lap times will be an embarrassment to Ariel. Dan Of course, you're right! Your experience as the Ariel Chief Development driver means that you're in a unique position to know precisely how a car that hasn't actually been driven yet but is designed for track use will perform 
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housen
637 posts
61 months
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they have a areil atom at plamer sport
for that gold package u could have 100+ full days there
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Mark Benson
2,534 posts
138 months
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NJH said: And to those who believe club level motorsport is bursting at the seams with loadsa money racers, have a look at the heavily subscribed championships. Hint, its the cheap ones, outside of stuff on the big packages like TOCA. MX-5's jam packed, PBMW jam packed etc. etc. This. People are cutting back, how many threads do we see on here about how cheaply circuit racing can be done? Might have just about floated five years ago, but even the established single make series at that price level are struggling, not the time to launch another IMO. If I had a budget of £60k+ I'd be off speaking to Ginetta and getting myself into an established series with good terrestrial TV coverage. I love Ariel for what they do, but a race series is a step in the wrong direction at the moment I feel.
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KMF
193 posts
17 months
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( No way will this be anywhere near the same sort of lap times as an R500. They are quick in a straight line but do not go round corners. If this does get off the ground the lap times will be an embarrassment to Ariel.)
If an Ariel Atom does not handle, then it is not set up right. It has adjustable rose joint suspention. As standard inboard bilstein shocks (Atom Cup cars have adjustable Ohlins shocks). One of the best 4 cylinder engines in the world and it is mid mounted.
If you watch the Atom performing on the track (youtube has many) then if an Atom is passed then it is only because the driver can not drive
Oh and for the record i owned a Caterham and sold it to buy an Atom so have driven both.
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djroadboy
588 posts
105 months
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KMF said: If an Ariel Atom does not handle, then it is not set up right. It has adjustable rose joint suspention. And a fundamentally flawed rear suspension geometry. You can adjust your rosejoints all you like but you can't change that. If you lapped quicker in an Atom than a R500 then I'd wager you're a point and quiet kinda driver.  /2p Dan
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KMF
193 posts
17 months
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I think we have overlooked Top gear, same driver same track. An Ariel Atom 300 stright from the factoty as they used their demonstrator and the Caterham R500 specialy set up for Caterham by Track n Road for the Top Gear event. Since when has fully independent suspention bin flawed, de deion is not state of the art. The problem with the Caterham is it has an old transit van engine and some old very clunky sierra diff with so much backlash it bangs every time you change gear. The factory excuse is it is to allow clearance for expansion as it gets hot. Sure it is. Some of the new BMW difs are no better.
I have owned both and driven both. Ther are quite a few people on the Atom forum who have owned Caterhams and progresed to Atoms. Has to be for some reason
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sfaulds
441 posts
147 months
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KMF said: the Caterham R500 specialy set up for Caterham by Road And Track for the Top Gear event.  Who?
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dsl2
789 posts
70 months
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Mr KMF whilst you clearly prefer your Atom to the 7 for a number of reasons which I'm sure I can agree with, you can't seriously prefer it as a real drivers car because an no Atom I've ever seen goes into and around corners in anything approaching a conventional driver controlled manor.....
That big tall heavy engine positioned out back totally dominates the balance of a car of this weight, you can twiddle your dampers and rose joints all you like but you can't change the laws of physics I'm afraid.
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Soul Reaver
300 posts
61 months
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Some of you guys are so negative. Why not wish them well and hope for packed grids, exciting racing and good TV viewing?
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housen
637 posts
61 months
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woof
6,941 posts
146 months
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yep stupid money.
It's direct competitor is the Caterham Academy at a cost of £24k (approx) and they now offer some factory support package, to assist.
or the Caterham Grads.
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housen
637 posts
61 months
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djroadboy
588 posts
105 months
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dsl2 said: Mr KMF whilst you clearly prefer your Atom to the 7 for a number of reasons which I'm sure I can agree with, you can't seriously prefer it as a real drivers car because an no Atom I've ever seen goes into and around corners in anything approaching a conventional driver controlled manor.....
That big tall heavy engine positioned out back totally dominates the balance of a car of this weight, you can twiddle your dampers and rose joints all you like but you can't change the laws of physics I'm afraid. Exactly! Clearly Mr. KMF does not understand much about suspension dynamics. As a fun track car the Atom is great. As a serious competition car they are pretty much useless. Dan
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sirtyro
1,145 posts
67 months
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djroadboy said: Exactly! Clearly Mr. KMF does not understand much about suspension dynamics. As a fun track car the Atom is great. As a serious competition car they are pretty much useless.
Dan I was at VIR recently where they already race the Atom and it was a lot of fun to watch. Some close racing and fast lap times. I'm surprised by the negative comments as well. Some interesting figures being mentioned for the Ginetta race series. Anyone thinking they will only spend £60k will be sorely disappointed. Also wondering how many of the nay sayers have actually been in an Atom or seen one at a track. I think a lot of people will love to see 20 atoms on the track. I certainly did.
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KMF
193 posts
17 months
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There are some very intresting comments from our PH experts. Hands up all the people who have owned, lived with and driven both cars and can truely offer an experienced opinion.
Good luck to the up coming series and all the best to Ariel for their involvement.
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dsl2
789 posts
70 months
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Now granted it was a good few years ago and maybe they have transformed the balence of the car now but even so call me old fashioned but I don't need to own one to tell how it handled, about 15 seconds in was enough to say not that great, but then what do I know as I only won two Radical race championships in a row and hold multiple national hill climb records in single seaters and Caterhams so would bow to your superior knowledge.
I genuinely wish them all the best for this series as similar to the Radical championship with everyone having the same car the relative performance or otherwise of the breed has no real bearing, you only have to beat the other drivers in the same kit to win!
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NJH
1,458 posts
78 months
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Mark Benson said: NJH said: And to those who believe club level motorsport is bursting at the seams with loadsa money racers, have a look at the heavily subscribed championships. Hint, its the cheap ones, outside of stuff on the big packages like TOCA. MX-5's jam packed, PBMW jam packed etc. etc. This. People are cutting back, how many threads do we see on here about how cheaply circuit racing can be done? Might have just about floated five years ago, but even the established single make series at that price level are struggling, not the time to launch another IMO. If I had a budget of £60k+ I'd be off speaking to Ginetta and getting myself into an established series with good terrestrial TV coverage. I love Ariel for what they do, but a race series is a step in the wrong direction at the moment I feel. Exactly. £60K is just about enough to buy a secondhand 996 cup car and do several races in the PCGB gt3 cup. Now who wouldn't want to race a Porsche cup car? I know I would, and pretty much all my track or race driving friends would love to as well. Thing is only about 1/2 dozen ppl at a time do which completely flies in the face of the thinking of these ppl which keep coming up with ridiculously expensive club level racing. A much more viable idea at the opposite end of the spectrum is the new kit car thing racing with the MX-5s, based itself on MX-5 mechanicals (Shame its ugly as hell though).
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sirtyro
1,145 posts
67 months
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NJH said: Exactly. £60K is just about enough to buy a secondhand 996 cup car and do several races in the PCGB gt3 cup. Now who wouldn't want to race a Porsche cup car? I know I would, and pretty much all my track or race driving friends would love to as well.
Thing is only about 1/2 dozen ppl at a time do which completely flies in the face of the thinking of these ppl which keep coming up with ridiculously expensive club level racing.
A much more viable idea at the opposite end of the spectrum is the new kit car thing racing with the MX-5s, based itself on MX-5 mechanicals (Shame its ugly as hell though). Love this. 'Just about enough' so what you're saying is that £60k isn't enough to buy a second hand porsche that you're going to have to put even more money in to fix any issues that the previous owner might of had then you have the cost of doing 'several' races (entry fee, tyres, fuel, transport, storage, team, trailer). Atom Cup is more expensive than Caterham but cheaper than Radical and that is where the car sits in the market. Ariel are being upfront about the overall cost of the race series and that is what people need to understand in these uncertain times and although there might be additional costs along the way they are trying to minimise the surprise. You're getting a brand new car that you can also use on the road if you so wish, some great tracks, TV coverage and what looks like great hospitality and evening entertainment. Sure there are what might appear to be cheaper racing out there...but its all relative. No motorsport is cheap. And people that spout these 'for £60k I could do this' don't think about the overall cost involved.
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