Fisher Fury, impuse buy!
Discussion
Monday night was the hardest I've driven it yet. First time I felt confident enough to lean on it abit. Trying to keep up with an I4 M550 my buddy has borrowed from work.
It's so much fun to pedal down a twisty b road. It sounds glorious too!
Still lots to sort ant I really need to turn my attention to the body so I can get it wrapped so the car it nice ane presentable.
My only grumble on Monday, was above 6k it really reverberates the engine noise vibration through the body. So last night I did the engine mounts I was putting off as my buddy needed his press back.
And I also modified the Speedo drive from the gearbox as this pokes onto the trans tunnel. There was also a 1/2meter tail of speedo drive cable still on it.
Whilst this probably isn't the only cause. It's going to be part of it. And now I can make some nice blanking plates to cover up the hole. And the drain hole.
There's a few other culprits. That probably start to resonate/vibrate when the engine is singing.
I'm not expecting it tobe smooth and quiet. And I'd say I've got a reasonable tolerance for NVH. Hopefully the engine mounts were a big factor
It's so much fun to pedal down a twisty b road. It sounds glorious too!
Still lots to sort ant I really need to turn my attention to the body so I can get it wrapped so the car it nice ane presentable.
My only grumble on Monday, was above 6k it really reverberates the engine noise vibration through the body. So last night I did the engine mounts I was putting off as my buddy needed his press back.
And I also modified the Speedo drive from the gearbox as this pokes onto the trans tunnel. There was also a 1/2meter tail of speedo drive cable still on it.
Whilst this probably isn't the only cause. It's going to be part of it. And now I can make some nice blanking plates to cover up the hole. And the drain hole.
There's a few other culprits. That probably start to resonate/vibrate when the engine is singing.
I'm not expecting it tobe smooth and quiet. And I'd say I've got a reasonable tolerance for NVH. Hopefully the engine mounts were a big factor
Zephyr Speedshop said:
the TPS is the FAJS one that suites the ITB's there the cheapy FAJS ones too. im reasonable confident its todo with them. as its sorts itself out quite quickley if theres some airspeed through them.
That's fairly standard behaviour for them! Variohm make a contactless / hall effect sensor that is a direct swap for that pot and is well priced compared to the Bosch motorsport sensors. It's a twin track pot but you'll only need the "rising" side of it. Should be available from all the usual places.Zephyr Speedshop said:
another factor was the tps was calibrated at a value of 7 which is really close to 0 volts, this was maxed out on its adjustment buy guy when tunning. i modified it and go it up to a value of 15, which its closer to the 20 the guy wanted. which i think make things much more stable. i cant drill it out any more as it will go through the casing now.
You may find that's a function of the throttles being big for the engine, essentially you're more closed at idle than expected in the design so off the end of the pot. The Variohm pot (and most contactless ones) are a 360 degree measurement so likely you can get one of those in the ball park without any grinding or drilling 
Technically at 360 degrees the resolution will be lower than your current pot (degrees per V) but the accuracy is so much greater that this doesn't matter but does mean you'll need to rescale the TPS calibration in the ECU.Zephyr Speedshop said:
and thanks its a bloody handy thing to have knocking about! it was my great grand fathers, he bought it some time after the war, and was an avid tinkerer much like myself.
I have a 7 that was my Dads, one should never underestimate how useful a lathe (any lathe!) is and I still make several bits on the just post war Myford that end up on some fairly modern kit. Always a pleasure to see one being used.poppopbangbang said:
Zephyr Speedshop said:
the TPS is the FAJS one that suites the ITB's there the cheapy FAJS ones too. im reasonable confident its todo with them. as its sorts itself out quite quickley if theres some airspeed through them.
That's fairly standard behaviour for them! Variohm make a contactless / hall effect sensor that is a direct swap for that pot and is well priced compared to the Bosch motorsport sensors. It's a twin track pot but you'll only need the "rising" side of it. Should be available from all the usual places.Zephyr Speedshop said:
another factor was the tps was calibrated at a value of 7 which is really close to 0 volts, this was maxed out on its adjustment buy guy when tunning. i modified it and go it up to a value of 15, which its closer to the 20 the guy wanted. which i think make things much more stable. i cant drill it out any more as it will go through the casing now.
You may find that's a function of the throttles being big for the engine, essentially you're more closed at idle than expected in the design so off the end of the pot. The Variohm pot (and most contactless ones) are a 360 degree measurement so likely you can get one of those in the ball park without any grinding or drilling Technically at 360 degrees the resolution will be lower than your current pot (degrees per V) but the accuracy is so much greater that this doesn't matter but does mean you'll need to rescale the TPS calibration in the ECU.Zephyr Speedshop said:
and thanks its a bloody handy thing to have knocking about! it was my great grand fathers, he bought it some time after the war, and was an avid tinkerer much like myself.
I have a 7 that was my Dads, one should never underestimate how useful a lathe (any lathe!) is and I still make several bits on the just post war Myford that end up on some fairly modern kit. Always a pleasure to see one being used.Is it the VTP11 you're recommending PPBB?
https://www.variohm.com/products/motorsports-senso...
I'll get one ordered if the problem persists.
The 45mm itbs definitely a factor. However as soon as I either use the 2.0 bottom end put cams in or higher comp it will potentially need them. Plus they were cheap even for FAJS ones
Zephyr Speedshop said:
I'm not sure if the omex 600 can cope with a hall TPS. I maybe wrong but it's quite a simple ECU.
Is it the VTP11 you're recommending PPBB?
https://www.variohm.com/products/motorsports-senso...
I'll get one ordered if the problem persists.
The 45mm itbs definitely a factor. However as soon as I either use the 2.0 bottom end put cams in or higher comp it will potentially need them. Plus they were cheap even for FAJS ones
Hall effect TPS will still output the same 0-5V/0.5V-4.5V that a wire wiping pot will so it'll work just fine. Omex 600 is essentially a newer GEMS Mini Zeta so whilst basic it's reliable and absolutely spot on when you just want to run a wasted spark pack and a throttle pot for load. There are much more expensive ECUs out there that don't have as good a positional engine in them!Is it the VTP11 you're recommending PPBB?
https://www.variohm.com/products/motorsports-senso...
I'll get one ordered if the problem persists.
The 45mm itbs definitely a factor. However as soon as I either use the 2.0 bottom end put cams in or higher comp it will potentially need them. Plus they were cheap even for FAJS ones
The pot you've posted it still a contacting pot, just a (much) better one. This is the hall effect: https://www.variohm.com/products/motorsports-senso...
Several places sell them in their own variants/package such as NM: https://www.northamptonmotorsport.com/product/vari...
You can also spec them to measure a specific range within their measuring range e.g. 100 degress from a set start point to give you the best possible resolution with a bit of wiggle room at each end for tolerance.
poppopbangbang said:
Zephyr Speedshop said:
I'm not sure if the omex 600 can cope with a hall TPS. I maybe wrong but it's quite a simple ECU.
Is it the VTP11 you're recommending PPBB?
https://www.variohm.com/products/motorsports-senso...
I'll get one ordered if the problem persists.
The 45mm itbs definitely a factor. However as soon as I either use the 2.0 bottom end put cams in or higher comp it will potentially need them. Plus they were cheap even for FAJS ones
Hall effect TPS will still output the same 0-5V/0.5V-4.5V that a wire wiping pot will so it'll work just fine. Omex 600 is essentially a newer GEMS Mini Zeta so whilst basic it's reliable and absolutely spot on when you just want to run a wasted spark pack and a throttle pot for load. There are much more expensive ECUs out there that don't have as good a positional engine in them!Is it the VTP11 you're recommending PPBB?
https://www.variohm.com/products/motorsports-senso...
I'll get one ordered if the problem persists.
The 45mm itbs definitely a factor. However as soon as I either use the 2.0 bottom end put cams in or higher comp it will potentially need them. Plus they were cheap even for FAJS ones
The pot you've posted it still a contacting pot, just a (much) better one. This is the hall effect: https://www.variohm.com/products/motorsports-senso...
Several places sell them in their own variants/package such as NM: https://www.northamptonmotorsport.com/product/vari...
You can also spec them to measure a specific range within their measuring range e.g. 100 degress from a set start point to give you the best possible resolution with a bit of wiggle room at each end for tolerance.
more fun, last night as some goodies from the interweb showed up.
mocal intercoolers and the rest of a kit to suite my existing sandwich plate. from the remote filter setup.
nice and easy, pretty clear run straight to the sandwich plate. hopefully that will massively help with cooling as be the final nail in the noisy valve train.
not, sure what the old fan is off but its not very powerful, its maybe off the lancia as that where the rad is from. its not a ken low or anything decent just an oem gates one.
good old spal , with a 1200 cfm one. I could have gone brushless, and got even more power but, i didn't want the fan to have more power than the the engine
hopefully this will all help it cope in traffic and as the weather gets hotter. the odd thing is it actually doesn't really have any cooling issue as long as it has good clean air. but as soon as you follow a car at a cruise it seems to start to struggle so hopefully this will all go a long way to sorting it.
I feel like a custom alloy rad with an expansion tanks in is in my near future as, then I can loose the plastic expansion bottle. and have better cooling.
i need to start looking at the air flow through the engine bay now and getting cold air in and, hot air out without it looking like its been backed through Halfords.
mocal intercoolers and the rest of a kit to suite my existing sandwich plate. from the remote filter setup.
nice and easy, pretty clear run straight to the sandwich plate. hopefully that will massively help with cooling as be the final nail in the noisy valve train.
not, sure what the old fan is off but its not very powerful, its maybe off the lancia as that where the rad is from. its not a ken low or anything decent just an oem gates one.
good old spal , with a 1200 cfm one. I could have gone brushless, and got even more power but, i didn't want the fan to have more power than the the engine
hopefully this will all help it cope in traffic and as the weather gets hotter. the odd thing is it actually doesn't really have any cooling issue as long as it has good clean air. but as soon as you follow a car at a cruise it seems to start to struggle so hopefully this will all go a long way to sorting it.
I feel like a custom alloy rad with an expansion tanks in is in my near future as, then I can loose the plastic expansion bottle. and have better cooling.
i need to start looking at the air flow through the engine bay now and getting cold air in and, hot air out without it looking like its been backed through Halfords.
Edited by Zephyr Speedshop on Friday 5th April 10:40
Cracking early doors drive in her today! It's running really really well now.
Only real issue is I'm getting 100+ psi oil pressure above 6k which seems Abit too much. After doing abit of googling I found this thread (not pressure related but interesting none the less).
http://www.guy-croft.com/viewtopic.php?t=1138
Quote from the late guy croft, who was the authority on these engines. .
'The answer (in my exp) for best power and reliability too is 75 deg C engine and 85 deg C oil. You can let the engine and oil go hotter, say 80 & 90 when idling but not under load.'
Now my engine is a later 8v so might not be exactly the same. However I wonder if Some of the running issues have been partly Todo with running hot. My fan kicks in at 90c and the thermostat seems to open at 85/ 90c . But this would compound the oil pressure issue. I'm still using the 20/50 Motorsport oil.
I've not really been looking at the oil pressure up the rpm range. So I don't know it it's always been this high or it's Todo with the oil cooler. as I've not been that happy revving it out until now as, it's all working beautifully.
Tempted to go back to the factory oil spec or split the difference. Worried I'm going to stress the pump or push out seals going north of 100psi.
Only real issue is I'm getting 100+ psi oil pressure above 6k which seems Abit too much. After doing abit of googling I found this thread (not pressure related but interesting none the less).
http://www.guy-croft.com/viewtopic.php?t=1138
Quote from the late guy croft, who was the authority on these engines. .
'The answer (in my exp) for best power and reliability too is 75 deg C engine and 85 deg C oil. You can let the engine and oil go hotter, say 80 & 90 when idling but not under load.'
Now my engine is a later 8v so might not be exactly the same. However I wonder if Some of the running issues have been partly Todo with running hot. My fan kicks in at 90c and the thermostat seems to open at 85/ 90c . But this would compound the oil pressure issue. I'm still using the 20/50 Motorsport oil.
I've not really been looking at the oil pressure up the rpm range. So I don't know it it's always been this high or it's Todo with the oil cooler. as I've not been that happy revving it out until now as, it's all working beautifully.
Tempted to go back to the factory oil spec or split the difference. Worried I'm going to stress the pump or push out seals going north of 100psi.
Dave who rallies a MK1 escort with a 16v TC in thinks the oil pressure isn't an issue. So I'll ignore that! In fact I'm getting around the same pressures as he sees from his engine.
Little niggle the throttle cable got abit sticky. So decided I'd mod the mountain point . I should really have done this before but thought it would be ok.
Bloody love a riv nut !
Fitted a rose joint so the cable outer can self align with the load. Stop it from wearing on one edge.
I forgot to get a picture, but also got rid.of the pedal return spring by using a spare dust cover on the cable it's just the right length to act as a buffer to stop the pedal falling back against the cable.when closed. .
I fitted a 74c thermostat tonight as well. So will see how that goes.
My last meeting of the day cancelled, so I still made it the locksheath classics in time!
After the quite bumpy road so far I'm absolutely loving the car. It's an absolute joy to drive now. There's some minor stuff to sort and lots I want to do with it, but nothing that can't wait (not that I'm in anyway capable of waiting!)
I need to address the head rests or go for full seats. And I need to prep the body and finish fitting the doors, so I can wrap it. I've got the material sat at work! But I need a clear weekend where I'm in the right mindset to get the body sorted.
I've gone super boring after all of my previous chat and going for one main colour and the wheel colour for detailing.
Little niggle the throttle cable got abit sticky. So decided I'd mod the mountain point . I should really have done this before but thought it would be ok.
Bloody love a riv nut !
Fitted a rose joint so the cable outer can self align with the load. Stop it from wearing on one edge.
I forgot to get a picture, but also got rid.of the pedal return spring by using a spare dust cover on the cable it's just the right length to act as a buffer to stop the pedal falling back against the cable.when closed. .
I fitted a 74c thermostat tonight as well. So will see how that goes.
My last meeting of the day cancelled, so I still made it the locksheath classics in time!
After the quite bumpy road so far I'm absolutely loving the car. It's an absolute joy to drive now. There's some minor stuff to sort and lots I want to do with it, but nothing that can't wait (not that I'm in anyway capable of waiting!)
I need to address the head rests or go for full seats. And I need to prep the body and finish fitting the doors, so I can wrap it. I've got the material sat at work! But I need a clear weekend where I'm in the right mindset to get the body sorted.
I've gone super boring after all of my previous chat and going for one main colour and the wheel colour for detailing.
Little up date.
Fitted the headed seat kit to the drivers side. Which is bloody decent. Takes it a little while to get going but I had to put it on the lower setting on a longer drive! Kinda perfect for the fury on those colder mornings and Evenings just makes it abit more comfortable
It's a neat little setup really simple to fit just need to do the pas side.
Took her out for a morning blast on the Hampshire ring. Noticed she sounded abit rough. Found another crack in the exhaust.
Unfortunately the collector is a super horrible cheapy cast one and it's so thin it's not up to the job. My welding is s
t but I doubt anyone could weld it up it's paper thin in places.
So decided to to patch it with some spare 1mm sheet I had. After spending way too long trying to weld it up
It abit rough and yes It should be a back perged TIG weld but quite. Pleased with it as I'm completely self taught. And only had a few mistakes matched off cuts leftover!
Forgot to get a photo but the ports were misaligned. So I filed them best I could. The other annoying issue is the flange that mates to the head. Is cut straight. But the head. Is 45° . So theres a silly step. It's far far better now but I need to invest in some decent diesel grinder bits and make it a straight run as the primary tubes are the correct angle..
I've decided to leave the wrap off for the moment as it seams to have really hammered the manifold especially the collector. Not really sure why. So re purposed a bit of heat shield. To protect the GRP
And off course how else do you get to Dino crazy golf ?
Fitted the headed seat kit to the drivers side. Which is bloody decent. Takes it a little while to get going but I had to put it on the lower setting on a longer drive! Kinda perfect for the fury on those colder mornings and Evenings just makes it abit more comfortable
It's a neat little setup really simple to fit just need to do the pas side.
Took her out for a morning blast on the Hampshire ring. Noticed she sounded abit rough. Found another crack in the exhaust.
Unfortunately the collector is a super horrible cheapy cast one and it's so thin it's not up to the job. My welding is s
t but I doubt anyone could weld it up it's paper thin in places. So decided to to patch it with some spare 1mm sheet I had. After spending way too long trying to weld it up
It abit rough and yes It should be a back perged TIG weld but quite. Pleased with it as I'm completely self taught. And only had a few mistakes matched off cuts leftover!
Forgot to get a photo but the ports were misaligned. So I filed them best I could. The other annoying issue is the flange that mates to the head. Is cut straight. But the head. Is 45° . So theres a silly step. It's far far better now but I need to invest in some decent diesel grinder bits and make it a straight run as the primary tubes are the correct angle..
I've decided to leave the wrap off for the moment as it seams to have really hammered the manifold especially the collector. Not really sure why. So re purposed a bit of heat shield. To protect the GRP
And off course how else do you get to Dino crazy golf ?
Edited by Zephyr Speedshop on Friday 19th April 20:57
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