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sundance002

Original Poster:

782 posts

33 months

[news] 
Monday 25th June 2012 quote quote all
Yes that's right, I'm running 555 torque, but had the same problem at 500 when the first clutch failed, the state of the clutch is what's so surprising, it's completely wrecked.

Thanks for the support guys hopefully can get it all sorted in time for Rockingham, will keep you posted on the outcome.


andygtt

6,364 posts

133 months

[news] 
Tuesday 26th June 2012 quote quote all
Just looked at my clutch 6 paddle, it's still very good no major wear at all after 6k including track

Jim O.

436 posts

66 months

[news] 
Thursday 28th June 2012 quote quote all
Two quick thoughts:

1. Did you break in your clutch before you started running full power through it? Clutches won't hold their full rated power until the friction surfaces mate to the plates they press against. And, in my experience, it doesn't take much to glaze the clutch linings - once they glaze, they won't hold full power and will only start slipping more and more...

2. Bell housing ventilation is a good idea, but be very careful where you put the holes if you vent the top of the bell housing - don't put them somewhere where a fluid spillage (like coolant) can drip into the hole and contaminate the clutch lining...

sundance002

Original Poster:

782 posts

33 months

[news] 
Friday 29th June 2012 quote quote all
Jim O. said:
Two quick thoughts:

1. Did you break in your clutch before you started running full power through it? Clutches won't hold their full rated power until the friction surfaces mate to the plates they press against. And, in my experience, it doesn't take much to glaze the clutch linings - once they glaze, they won't hold full power and will only start slipping more and more...

2. Bell housing ventilation is a good idea, but be very careful where you put the holes if you vent the top of the bell housing - don't put them somewhere where a fluid spillage (like coolant) can drip into the hole and contaminate the clutch lining...
Hi Jim, Never new you had to break it in? Thing is I never felt it slip always thought it was wheelspin, it always pulled away no problem, even when I checked the clutch the old fashion way apply hand break select first and she still pulled no problem,
It's with Helix at the moment so will know more tomorrow .

Venting is an option, but again will wait to hear what they say about box and clutch.

Cheers

sundance002

Original Poster:

782 posts

33 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th July 2012 quote quote all
Finaly got the report back from Helix, they said the clutch had not been over heating and the wear was due to being over the limit of torque the clutch can handle. They also thought that driving onto a car trailer will also wear the clutch in no time,
even driving in traffic will cause to much slip and cause it to wear out fast. Apparantly they are in the process of designing a new one that can take more power?
Well I have gone a new way and had one made bespoke, twin plate clutch made from better materials that can take a lot more power and still be drivable on the road and in traffic, which means I have a new Helix 5 paddle clutch and light weight flywheel if anyone is looking.
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Hollowpockets

4,763 posts

85 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th July 2012 quote quote all
I think I've just killed my clutch, well I hope it's the clutch and not the engine but I'm getting a very bad vibration through the clutch pedal and a nasty noise if I use any throttle above 3k rpm. Also when I lift the clutch when pulling away the vibration and feel of the pedal is lumpy and horrible.

I hope it's not the engine or gearbox but I guess that's still a possibility. I get every gear and just drove 100 miles doing plenty gear changes though. Will look at it closer tonight/tomorrow.

Adrian W

8,101 posts

97 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th July 2012 quote quote all
Hollowpockets said:
I think I've just killed my clutch, well I hope it's the clutch and not the engine but I'm getting a very bad vibration through the clutch pedal and a nasty noise if I use any throttle above 3k rpm. Also when I lift the clutch when pulling away the vibration and feel of the pedal is lumpy and horrible.

I hope it's not the engine or gearbox but I guess that's still a possibility. I get every gear and just drove 100 miles doing plenty gear changes though. Will look at it closer tonight/tomorrow.
When the race car had those symptoms it was because the cover bolts had come loose and were scraping the bell housing

Hollowpockets

4,763 posts

85 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th July 2012 quote quote all
Hmmm,

Update, not getting more than 25psi oil pressure... Engine sounds good though???

Engine out me thinks, hope I just get it back to the UK.

sundance002

Original Poster:

782 posts

33 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th July 2012 quote quote all
Hollowpockets said:
Hmmm,

Update, not getting more than 25psi oil pressure... Engine sounds good though???

Engine out me thinks, hope I just get it back to the UK.
Sssht. Are you losing any engine oil ?

Graham personally I would get it trailered back even if it still drives, it sounds so much like my first prob, hopefully nothing to serious for you, but at lest it will cause no further damage, Huge pain in the arse but prob the cheapest option in the end.

Have you still got boost?

Edited by sundance002 on Sunday 29th July 18:42

Hollowpockets

4,763 posts

85 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th July 2012 quote quote all
Still boosts fine, drive is fine so clutch must be ok, could be release bearing but most likely gearbox bearing/bottom end wear I think.

Time for a re-build and more power! smile


JBliss

713 posts

26 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th July 2012 quote quote all
I just got a 6 paddle clutch from Helix. Told them it had to withstand 550ft lb and they said it wouldnt be a problem. Im not planning on going anywhere near that torque figure for a while, but hopefully it will last.


Since a few people have mentioned breaking in a new clutch.. Any tips on how its done? Ive always driven normally after a clutch change and had no problems.

sundance002

Original Poster:

782 posts

33 months

[news] 
Monday 30th July 2012 quote quote all
JBliss said:
I just got a 6 paddle clutch from Helix. Told them it had to withstand 550ft lb and they said it wouldnt be a problem. Im not planning on going anywhere near that torque figure for a while, but hopefully it will last.

That really isn't true. 500ftlb is on the limit. Also the more paddles you have the more heat it will create, that's why I went with 5 paddle. but under 500 ftlb 5 or 6 should be fine.


Since a few people have mentioned breaking in a new clutch.. Any tips on how its done? Ive always driven normally after a clutch change and had no problems.
Just be gentle with the clutch for the first 200 miles so the two surfaces are bedded in flat and smooth to each other.

sundance002

Original Poster:

782 posts

33 months

[news] 
Monday 30th July 2012 quote quote all


The cerametalic paddle clutch is the top one, rated to 550lb/ft, 4,5 or 6 paddles they are all rated to the same.

Hi graham hope the car is holding up? They thought it was 550 but it was never tested, after our long conversation , and after there inspection, they have said the wear factor is due to torque overload, if they really were confident in it they would not bother designing a new one to handle the same power, IMO we have been the guinea pigs and have shown its not suitable for our type of power.

They told me the only difference was the 6 paddle would handle slow driving in traffic better and would have a longer life because of more material and was what they recommended to me doing about half road half trackday

That's what they told me, they also added the point that the more paddles the more heat it creates .

How's things with yours Graham?



Hollowpockets

4,763 posts

85 months

[news] 
Monday 30th July 2012 quote quote all
Yeah the above is why I went for the 6 paddle.

I've not driven the car, it really isnt worth it, not a nice feeling at all.

This morning I started it up, a bit more noisy than usual for the first few seconds then normal again, checked to see if the crank pulley was moving with the clutch being loaded up but it's not so there's no movement in the crank sideways.

Very odd, oil pressure still about 20psi lower than it should be but stays about 10psi at idle.

No more ideas yet.

sundance002

Original Poster:

782 posts

33 months

[news] 
Monday 30th July 2012 quote quote all
Hollowpockets said:
Yeah the above is why I went for the 6 paddle.

I've not driven the car, it really isnt worth it, not a nice feeling at all.

This morning I started it up, a bit more noisy than usual for the first few seconds then normal again, checked to see if the crank pulley was moving with the clutch being loaded up but it's not so there's no movement in the crank sideways.

Very odd, oil pressure still about 20psi lower than it should be but stays about 10psi at idle.

No more ideas yet.
Just a thought, could it be the oil pump? not getting enough oil into the engine, so making more noise and lower oil pressures?

Hollowpockets

4,763 posts

85 months

[news] 
Monday 30th July 2012 quote quote all
I guess it could be the oil pump, if that's the case, I'd also had to have thrown the clutch/flywheel out of balance or damaged the gearbox at the same time to account for the bad vibration in the clutch pedal though.

sundance002

Original Poster:

782 posts

33 months

[news] 
Monday 30th July 2012 quote quote all
Hollowpockets said:
I guess it could be the oil pump, if that's the case, I'd also had to have thrown the clutch/flywheel out of balance or damaged the gearbox at the same time to account for the bad vibration in the clutch pedal though.
Likewise why would the clutch or gearbox affect the oil pressure? before my car went back it had shot the clutch and gearbox but was running fine engine wise.

On idle my oil pressure is never been much more than 10 when hot and around 50 to 60 when on throttle think that's normal for these cars.

Maybe there is a couple of problems? good luck with it mate soon be back as bad as ever.

Adrian W

8,101 posts

97 months

[news] 
Monday 30th July 2012 quote quote all
A spun main shell would effect oil pressure badly

sundance002

Original Poster:

782 posts

33 months

[news] 
Monday 30th July 2012 quote quote all
Adrian W said:
A spun main shell would effect oil pressure badly
That's what happened to mine, the main bearings had broke, I thought Graham had the uprated ones? or are they not holding either?

andygtt

6,364 posts

133 months

[news] 
Monday 30th July 2012 quote quote all
sundance002 said:
Adrian W said:
A spun main shell would effect oil pressure badly
That's what happened to mine, the main bearings had broke, I thought Graham had the uprated ones? or are they not holding either?
and could cause significant vibration at certain revs... mine rattled like a tappet when main bearings went originally

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