Assured Shorthold Tenancy - Student House

Assured Shorthold Tenancy - Student House

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Discussion

Chrisgr31

Original Poster:

13,481 posts

255 months

Tuesday 26th March
quotequote all
Unfortunately I deal with commercial not residential property in my day job.

A group of 6 students have signed a tenancy for a house commencing in June 2024. They are jointly liable for the rent etc. Parents have signed rent guarantees.

One student wants to drop out, as they are not staying at uni. Landlord says the remainder have until a date in a week or two’s time to find a replacement or they will terminate the tenancy.

Are they allowed to do so?

BoRED S2upid

19,704 posts

240 months

Tuesday 26th March
quotequote all
Or. They find a replacement student or they split the lost rent between them all? Both should be acceptable to the landlord.

Chrisgr31

Original Poster:

13,481 posts

255 months

Tuesday 26th March
quotequote all
The landlord is saying unless they find a replacement they will terminate the agreement. Seems to me that under the agreement the remainder have to pay whether a replacement is found or not.

So the question is can the landlord just terminate as one has dropped out

Zio Di Roma

406 posts

32 months

Tuesday 26th March
quotequote all
Chrisgr31 said:
Unfortunately I deal with commercial not residential property in my day job.

A group of 6 students have signed a tenancy for a house commencing in June 2024. They are jointly liable for the rent etc. Parents have signed rent guarantees.

One student wants to drop out, as they are not staying at uni. Landlord says the remainder have until a date in a week or two’s time to find a replacement or they will terminate the tenancy.

Are they allowed to do so?
As far as I am aware no, because there has not been an unequivocal surrender of the tenancy by all tenants.

Why a landlord would want to end it anyway isn't immediately clear if (as is normally the case) all tenants are jointly and severally liable for the full rent. The landlord can sit back and say "your problem Kids".




Robertb

1,445 posts

238 months

Tuesday 26th March
quotequote all
Surely if an agreement has been signed by everyone and deposits paid then the drop-out or their guarantor is on the hook until they find a replacement to cover their share and amend the agreement.

qwerty360

191 posts

45 months

Tuesday 26th March
quotequote all
Would depend on the contract, but most likely options are:

The contract can end with EVERYONE's mutual agreement.

A new tenant can be added to replace the one leaving
The leaving tenant can pay rent until they find a replacement
The other tenants can pay the extra rent until they find a replacement

ANY of the guarantors could be charged if rent isn't paid by tenants



One potential issue is I am not sure if normal eviction/termination laws apply until the tenancy starts. This may also mean that while you have a contract, any compensation for breach by the LL ending it might be significantly reduced/non-existant because you have several months to deal with it. And this assumes the LL can't argue it should be unwound because the change in occupants is a significant change to the contract.


This may also be why the LL is pushing for it to be resolved fairly quickly - they don't want the students trying to cancel last minute because they don't want to pay extra rent given they can more easily find other students looking for accomodation right now. Chasing unpaid rent is difficult/expensive. They will get arguments about who they should pursue (moved out tenant, tenants still living in the property, guarantor for moved out tenant, other guarantors are all going to point at each other)

Ian Geary

4,488 posts

192 months

Friday 29th March
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Can't help with question I'm afraid, but I am curious about one detail.

Are parental guarantors liable just for their kid, or liable for all students collectively?

Seems a weak link there for a slopey shouldered parent to offload liability onto other parents in the event of their child breaking the agreement.

Obviously too late to change the contract now, but something to be aware of for others.

Jordie Barretts sock

4,139 posts

19 months

Friday 29th March
quotequote all
I am responsible for my son's portion of the rent and only his. That is very clear on his existing and next year's agreements.

hellorent

383 posts

63 months

Friday 29th March
quotequote all
Ian Geary said:
Can't help with question I'm afraid, but I am curious about one detail.

Are parental guarantors liable just for their kid, or liable for all students collectively?

Seems a weak link there for a slopey shouldered parent to offload liability onto other parents in the event of their child breaking the agreement.

Obviously too late to change the contract now, but something to be aware of for others.
Generally if all the tenants sign the 1 TA then the guarantors are liable for all the students collectively,
as if the is damage to the property if each guarantor is only responsible for that tenants rent you would have
no way of claiming for damage etc

Chrisgr31

Original Poster:

13,481 posts

255 months

Sunday 31st March
quotequote all
hellorent said:
Generally if all the tenants sign the 1 TA then the guarantors are liable for all the students collectively,
as if the is damage to the property if each guarantor is only responsible for that tenants rent you would have
no way of claiming for damage etc
That would be my understanding as well. I am responsible for my child’s payments. My child has joint liability with the other students so in theory could become liable for the rent for all if no one else paid. Have to rather hope that doesn’t happen!

Chrisgr31

Original Poster:

13,481 posts

255 months

Sunday 31st March
quotequote all
qwerty360 said:
Would depend on the contract, but most likely options are:

The contract can end with EVERYONE's mutual agreement.

A new tenant can be added to replace the one leaving
The leaving tenant can pay rent until they find a replacement
The other tenants can pay the extra rent until they find a replacement

ANY of the guarantors could be charged if rent isn't paid by tenants



One potential issue is I am not sure if normal eviction/termination laws apply until the tenancy starts. This may also mean that while you have a contract, any compensation for breach by the LL ending it might be significantly reduced/non-existant because you have several months to deal with it. And this assumes the LL can't argue it should be unwound because the change in occupants is a significant change to the contract.


This may also be why the LL is pushing for it to be resolved fairly quickly - they don't want the students trying to cancel last minute because they don't want to pay extra rent given they can more easily find other students looking for accomodation right now. Chasing unpaid rent is difficult/expensive. They will get arguments about who they should pursue (moved out tenant, tenants still living in the property, guarantor for moved out tenant, other guarantors are all going to point at each other)
Whilst I can understand the landlord wanting it sorted quickly expecting them to sort it in 12 days including Easter when many will have gone home seems a bit unreasonable. The students would like to get it sorted as well as they and their parents don’t fancy a 20% increase in the rent!

Seems to me there shouldn’t be any real issue about who to pursue. The one that has exited seems like the obvious candidate! However given that option they might find a very unsuitable replacement so may be better to go after the ones that are left as they are the ones that have the vested interest in sorting it

dontlookdown

1,728 posts

93 months

Sunday 31st March
quotequote all
Chrisgr31 said:
hellorent said:
Generally if all the tenants sign the 1 TA then the guarantors are liable for all the students collectively,
as if the is damage to the property if each guarantor is only responsible for that tenants rent you would have
no way of claiming for damage etc
That would be my understanding as well. I am responsible for my child’s payments. My child has joint liability with the other students so in theory could become liable for the rent for all if no one else paid. Have to rather hope that doesn’t happen!
Yup that's how it generally seems to work. You are responsible for your kid's share only, but that share could rise if one or more of the others drop out, as the tenants themselves are jointly liable.

Jordie BS, are you sure this isn't the case with your agreement? If not you are in a fortunate minority.

Chrisgr31

Original Poster:

13,481 posts

255 months

Sunday 31st March
quotequote all
Jordie Barretts sock said:
I am responsible for my son's portion of the rent and only his. That is very clear on his existing and next year's agreements.
Is your son renting a room in a house then or a whole house with friends. In the former option he would only be liable for his own rent certainly. In the latter it would be unusual not to be liable for the whole.


Jordie Barretts sock

4,139 posts

19 months

Sunday 31st March
quotequote all
Pretty sure. I was very wary for the very reasons you mention.

It does state very clearly on my guarantor form that I am only liable for my son and not the entire house.

Presumably being York with two universities and student accommodation being at a premium, letting a room after a dropout isn't an issue.

dontlookdown

1,728 posts

93 months

Sunday 31st March
quotequote all
Jordie Barretts sock said:
Pretty sure. I was very wary for the very reasons you mention.

It does state very clearly on my guarantor form that I am only liable for my son and not the entire house.

Presumably being York with two universities and student accommodation being at a premium, letting a room after a dropout isn't an issue.
It says that on my form for my daughter too (up the A1 at Newcastle Uni). But she is still jointly liable as a tenant so in theory could become liable for the whole outstanding rent.

It's not v satisfactory and is one advantage of living in PBSA rather than. HMO property. You pay through the nose but bills are (usually) included and there's zero chance of any additional liability.

Jordie Barretts sock

4,139 posts

19 months

Sunday 31st March
quotequote all
Ahh, well you may he correct then.

blueg33

35,914 posts

224 months

Sunday 31st March
quotequote all
I varied the leases and the guarantee for my daughters digs so that I wasn’t liable for other tenants default. The agent was inept and signed it on his clients behalf whilst not understanding the effect of the changes I made. Wouldn’t be surprised if it was ultra vires, which would have been interesting in a dispute

hellorent

383 posts

63 months

Sunday 31st March
quotequote all
A lot of guarantors are not correctly served in accordance with the correct procedure, the main 1 being not written up as a
deed, which in many cases make them legally unenforceable.

dontlookdown

1,728 posts

93 months

Sunday 31st March
quotequote all
Jordie Barretts sock said:
Ahh, well you may he correct then.
I think you would have to be pretty unlucky for it to actually happen though. You'd have to fail to find replacement tenants (unlikely given there are more students than houses for them in most places) and the other guarantors would have to do a runner too.

So fingers crossed its mostly a theoretical risk. I hope!

dontlookdown

1,728 posts

93 months

Sunday 31st March
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
I varied the leases and the guarantee for my daughters digs so that I wasn’t liable for other tenants default. The agent was inept and signed it on his clients behalf whilst not understanding the effect of the changes I made. Wouldn’t be surprised if it was ultra vires, which would have been interesting in a dispute
That was quite sassy of you, well done;)