xjr v8 steel engine liner

xjr v8 steel engine liner

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Discussion

alanmercer7

Original Poster:

30 posts

192 months

Tuesday 22nd June 2010
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How do you check if the engine is nikisol or steel lined -my car was registered in september 1999

Jaguar steve

9,232 posts

211 months

Tuesday 22nd June 2010
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It's more important when it was built in the first place and if your car was originaly fitted with a Nicasil coated block there's always the possibility it may have had the engine replaced under warranty at some time in the past - which should be recorded in the service history and by a (green IIRC) metal tag at the rear of the engine behind the throttle body. A replacement engine should also be show up on a Jaguar WDS scan too I think.

Very briefly there have been two versions of the V8 fitted to the '98 to '02 XJ8. The first AJ26 one had a Nicasil coating applied directly to the bores and allong with several other revisions at sometime in 2000, the later AJ27 version had steel liners inserted into the block.

Athough several engines were apparently discreetly changed wnder warranty, as far as I know Jaguar have never publicly admitted there was a problem with the combination of high Sulphur content fuel combined with short trips allowing errosion of the Nicasil lining to take place. Part of this reluctance included not supplying the information to indicate which engine was fitted to any particular car and so a whole number of suggestions, ranging from that build time on a particular day was the switch over point to Jaguar used up whatever engines they had in stock sometimes over a period of months have been made. Adding to the confusion is that Jaguar never clearly defined what constituted the difference between a manufacturing and model year - presumably as to do so would harm sales of old stock cars.

The main sympton of Nicasil failure is difficult cold starting and sometimes a lumpy idle. If you're concerned then any Jaguar dealer or indy will do a blow by test which indicated how much compression is being lost past the pistons. Over 40l/m is a fail and ideally you're looking for less than 25l/m.
Lots of oil in the breather system, air intake trunking and throttle body is a useful guide to engine condition too as well as excess crankcase pressurisation - lift the oil filler cap with the engine at hot idle, a clean, healthy enine ought to pull a slight vacuum and at worst there should be no or very little fuming or pressure escape - and even if there is it may be nothing more than a blocked breather causing it

One method that's often suggested is to look at the VIN number - if the last 6 figures are 1 letter followed by five numbers then you've got a steel lined engine. My June 2000 built car VIN ends like this but as some suggest steel liners were not introduced until September 2000 then it's difficult to be sure.

The main point really is your car, even if it has a Nicasil engine fitted can only have been exposed to the higher 150ppm limit of Sulphur content in fuel which, combined with lots of cold starts and short trips is what allowed the build up of Sulphuric acid in the oil that etched away the Nicasil coating on the bores, for a matter of weeks when it was first registered as the maximium allowable limit of Sulphur in fuel was considerably lowered by law on 1st Jan 2000.

There is a school of thought which suggests that Nicasil coated bores - obviously provided they have not eroded - are much better in terms of friction reduction and engine life then steel liners. Nicasil coating had been commonly used in both cart racing and bike engines for years and that's why Jaguar and BMW - who also had several engine failures - introduced it in their new engines.

alanmercer7

Original Poster:

30 posts

192 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2010
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Thanks very much for that information -very reassuring, and hopefully a win win situation

DBSV8

5,958 posts

239 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2010
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My Brother had an XKR circa 98 with 65,000 on the clock it suffered from Nicasil failure , Cold start problems very low blow back test ,
it took a lot of time with the involvement of solicitors between himself and the indie he bought the car from to admit, there was a problem with the engine.

he was one of the lucky ones because as it had full FJSH . Jaguar replaced the engine at a cost of 8k ,

He was told if the car has under 100,000k and FJSH , jaguar would replace the engine , however this was back in 2001


XKRacer

496 posts

208 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2010
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You can check when your engine was built e.g. if your number starts 000615, the first numbers are the year 00 (2000) the second numbers 06 (June)the last numbers 15 is the day so the engine was built on the 15 june 2000 and as far as I know all steel lined engines commenced being built as of July 1999 so if you have an engine number starting 990805 that would be 5th August 1999 you have steel liners.

Just as a side note if your engine was repleced because of nikasil and the part no. has an E at the end of it that means it started life as a nikasil engine and was rebored to accept steel liners

Jaguar steve

9,232 posts

211 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2010
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XKRacer said:
You can check when your engine was built e.g. if your number starts 000615, the first numbers are the year 00 (2000) the second numbers 06 (June)the last numbers 15 is the day so the engine was built on the 15 june 2000 and as far as I know all steel lined engines commenced being built as of July 1999 so if you have an engine number starting 990805 that would be 5th August 1999 you have steel liners.

Just as a side note if your engine was repleced because of nikasil and the part no. has an E at the end of it that means it started life as a nikasil engine and was rebored to accept steel liners
Mmm... scratchchin That ties up neatly with the claim made that steel liners were introduced in 2000, but not as I've seen suggested, a calendar but a model year which would have rolled off the lines towards the end of the previous year.

It's a bit too easy to worry a bit to much about all this 'tho. If an Nicasil engine has survived for the last 10 years since high Sulphur content fuel was phased out than chances are it'll keep going now 'till miles or a lack of care or regular oil changes kills it.

TheD

3,133 posts

200 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2010
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I'm with JagSteve on this one. If a Nikasil engine is going to fail now it is more likely due to poor maintenance and being thrashed than the Nikasil linings. I've spoke to a few Jag experts and they all agree about this. Most say it should actually be a tougher due to the Nikasil getting harder. I think too much emphasis is put on Nikasil although it's a great argument if you are a buyer. A simple blow test before purchase is the way to go if you are unsure.

groomi

9,317 posts

244 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2010
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Agree with the last two posts. If it's Nikasil and it passes a blow-by test comfortably, then I'd be happy with that.

avos

115 posts

246 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2010
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Cast iron liners where introduced middle of august 2000, all engines build before that date (so also the AJ27) where with nikasil liners. Plenty of proof out there, also my AJ27 engine build in May 2000 has nikasil (confirmed).

XKRacer

496 posts

208 months

Thursday 24th June 2010
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XKRacer said:
I know all steel lined engines commenced being built as of July 1999 so if you have an engine number starting 990805 that would be 5th August 1999 you have steel liners.
A guy at Jaguar told me that, perhaps he had his dates crossed and meant 2000, who knows exactly??? scratchchin

But I am in the nikasil camp I am rebuilding a 4.0ltr nikasil engine using a 4.2 crank/rods and pistons so effectively stroking it to a 4.2. Probably will have the only 4.2 nikasil engine around unless someone else has done it? Lets see how long I take to blow it up laugh

avos

115 posts

246 months

Thursday 24th June 2010
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There have been some Nikasil failures for engines build in 2000 (before mid-August), and Jaguar have themselves also officially announced when the cutover was in the service bulletin S491. There they also explain the cause etc.

Anyhow, all I can say is that my (very well cared for) nikasil engine has been working exceptionally well for me for 200.000km. The last 75.000 it has been (ab)used quite a bit when I was testing different TS setups, but still the engine is looking like new and several oil analyses have shown almost no wear at all.

Are you sure you can stroke the engine, thinking about a small difference in the liner (if that is possible with Nikasil) from where the rings of the piston always passed and where not?

NormanD

3,208 posts

229 months

Thursday 24th June 2010
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Is it worth the effort just to keep the nikasil engine
The 4.2Lt has many other developments


Some of us know one owner who is making a 4.4Lt engine
Over two years later and still not on the road

XKRacer

496 posts

208 months

Thursday 24th June 2010
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Is it worth it? Under normal circumstances I would say no, but when you have everything you need for a fraction of the cost of a 4.2 (so far all I have spent is £200)then it is worth the giggle.

As nobody has done this before, who knows if it's going to work? I don't know! As it is with most things you never know until you try! wink

NormanD

3,208 posts

229 months

Thursday 24th June 2010
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XKRacer said:
Is it worth it? Under normal circumstances I would say no, but when you have everything you need for a fraction of the cost of a 4.2 (so far all I have spent is £200)then it is worth the giggle.

As nobody has done this before, who knows if it's going to work? I don't know! As it is with most things you never know until you try! wink
And with your expertise and facilities

avos

115 posts

246 months

Thursday 24th June 2010
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Don't doubt if it will work (just the cylinder wall thing when you stroke it), only thing is that the 4.2 pistons are slightly different, and the 4.0 heads do not match the squish area. Iirc you will lower your compression ratio with this combo, but that could have an advantage if you want to up the boost.

XKRacer

496 posts

208 months

Thursday 24th June 2010
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Ahh yes the compression ratio!!!! I have forgot to mention I am using XK8 pistons and have machined the tops to my own compression rating, I have also skimmed the heads.

I really have no idea if this will work, it is very hit and miss, I have done a few calculations but no real science behind it, all very old school, lets do it and see scenario laugh

avos

115 posts

246 months

Friday 25th June 2010
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Sounds all very promising, as long you have at least use the finger in the air technique you should be fine ;-)

Piersman2

6,599 posts

200 months

Friday 25th June 2010
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I may be wrong here... but didn't a replacement steel lined engine have a green engine number tag rather than just a silver one as fitted to original engines?