Train coaches overcrowded

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The Gauge

Original Poster:

2,026 posts

14 months

Saturday 30th September 2023
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Anyone here work on the trains and can explain why coaches always seem to be overcrowded pease?

The last few train journeys I've made have been a nightmare with overcrowded coaches, standing room only and arguments over reserved seats. ;ve experienced this on routes from Sheffield to York & Leeds (which I think is the Bristol to Edinburgh line?) etc.

When the train pulls into the station all the seats are full, a few passengers get off but even more get on. Standing room only with passengers stood down the main aisles of the coaches. When the train makes a stop, a few get off, those standing rush for the few seats that have become vacant, more passengers get on etc. It all makes for a tense and uncomfortable passenger experience.

I realise the train companies don't know when open day tickets holders will choose to ride, but this seems common place with recent train journeys I've made.

Is all this because it's impossible for the train companies to predict how many passengers they are going to have on any given day, or are they purposely not putting enough coaches on the trains, or purposely over selling tickets to maximise sales income?

The Gauge

Original Poster:

2,026 posts

14 months

Saturday 30th September 2023
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outnumbered said:
OP, do you know which train operator you were using ? Cross-Country are well known for overcrowding, especially at weekends. Trans-Pennine Express is a basket case in terms of service reliability due to long-term mismanagement. Northern are (AIUI) improving from a similarly dire level.
I think the York > Sheffield service I was on was CrossCountry, bound for Bristol

Edited by The Gauge on Saturday 30th September 15:38

The Gauge

Original Poster:

2,026 posts

14 months

Saturday 30th September 2023
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Dingu said:
Would you prefer them to stop selling tickets when they’ve sold all seats
I guess the train could be full with people with open tickets so the operator wouldn't know which time of train they were getting on. However I think the overcrowded train I was on last was the Edinburgh to Bristol service where due to the distance you'd think they c/would have more than 3 coaches.

Edited by The Gauge on Saturday 30th September 19:43

The Gauge

Original Poster:

2,026 posts

14 months

Saturday 30th September 2023
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Jandywa said:
I feel your pain OP. I regularly do the Sheffield - Birmingham run and it is total bks. 8 carriages worth of people, which when they send a train with 8 carriages is ok. But with boring regularity they send 4 carriages. And it’s horrendous. Still at least the tickets are cheap…..
Bad isn't it.

I'm planning a day trip to London for myself, thinking of booking in advance for a more reasonable priced 1st class ticket, but run the risk of the carriage being declassified and everyone piling in.

Is it possible to choose/reserve a particular seat when booking, or are reserved seats allocated on the day, with it being pot luck where you are sat?

The Gauge

Original Poster:

2,026 posts

14 months

Saturday 30th September 2023
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surveyor said:
This is Cross Country land, who run the most expensive tickets with the most unsuitable trains.
Yes, I've just checked and the trains running at the times I used them were CrossCountry.

I've only recently realised you can check when booking which train operator your train is run by, but it seems the CrossCountry service is the only one that runs direct between Sheffield & York. In future I might try and choose an alternative operator for other destinations.

The Gauge

Original Poster:

2,026 posts

14 months

Monday 2nd October 2023
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I’ve done some more digging into this.

A retired railway worker has said that the strike that was going ahead on the following day Saturday 30th Sept would have had an impact on the service offered on both the day before and the day after.

The train operators would have been taking stock to different locations due to the strike. Then on the Sunday moving it around again after the strike. This would have impacted on the level of service offered on the days either side of the strike day.

Add to this, sone of the passengers who instead of being able to travel on the strike day would be travelling on the Friday instead. This makes sense as the train I was on was a late evening Scotland to Bristol service so folk would perhaps have been travelling on the Friday instead.

The Gauge

Original Poster:

2,026 posts

14 months

Thursday 5th October 2023
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darkyoung1000 said:
For now, depending on your route, and whether it's a regular journey or not, you can probably find alternatives if you don't mind a couple of changes. E.g. my leg home now involves a change at Sheffield and Doncaster but gets me in at the same time as the direct service, without having to stand/cram into the luggage rack....
My worry with making changes like that are if my train is late and misses the connecting train, or the connecting train is late, or doesn't arrive, hence why I always go the direct route if possible.

The Gauge

Original Poster:

2,026 posts

14 months

Thursday 5th October 2023
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I learnt quite a lot on my recent train journey as I was with a mate who is a 'train person', taught me about the different classes of trains, coaches (not carriages smile ) and the Thunderbird train that sits in the corner of the station acting as a standby train for if needed.

The Gauge

Original Poster:

2,026 posts

14 months

Tuesday 10th October 2023
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Jordie Barretts sock said:
I had the 'joy' of travelling 45 minutes and two stops at 1030 this morning on Cross Country. I had reserved seats, just as well because the four coach trainer n had people stood all the way down the train in the vestibules and aisles. So why didn't CC run a train with more carriages?
When you reserve a seat (I've never done it) do you only discover where your seat is upon boarding? Also, do you often find someone already sat in it?

When 'Reserved' cards used to get placed on the backs of seats it was easy to see which seats were reserved, but this seems to have been replaced by a tiny digital screen above each seat informing if it is available or not. To be honest I never think to look and have sometimes been asked to vacate my seat by a frustrated passenger who has reserved it. I also see other people doing the same. Seems, like me, nobody bothers to look?

The Gauge

Original Poster:

2,026 posts

14 months

Tuesday 10th October 2023
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2xChevrons said:
We can all recall or find tales of woeful customer service under BR, and can variously proscribe that to anything from bolshy unionised bloody-mindedness to widespread tanking of morale during the era of 'managed decline'.......
A fascinating post, and answers my question of why some trains are over crowded, thank you

The Gauge

Original Poster:

2,026 posts

14 months

Tuesday 10th October 2023
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bigpriest said:
With TransPennine Express, you select your service times (outward and return) and then have a choice to reserve a seat. You can select Window / Aisle and Table / Airline Seat. Your Coach ID and Seat Number is listed before you pay on the website....
Thanks. So is there a way of knowing where in the carriage the reserved seat will be, are their seating plans etc to view? For your example would I just have to Google search 'TransPennine Express coach E seat 21' for example?

The Gauge

Original Poster:

2,026 posts

14 months

Saturday 28th October 2023
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Over the last couple of days I’ve been catching the Leighton Buzzard to Euston train, and back again which is the Birmingham train run by London Northwest, and is a 30 min journey.

Yesterday (Friday) the early afternoon train to Euston was an enjoyable journey, the eight coaches were half empty and had the most leg room I’ve ever experienced. The 7:23pm return journey was awful, standing room only.

This morning (Saturday) I caught the train around 9:45sm back into Euston and it was horrendous, standing again with hardly any room to breathe, plus the train came to a stop between stations and sat stationary for 20 mins which is no fun when your stood and crammed in. The 7:16pm back out of London was almost as busy, but I did at least get a seat, though not with the same leg room I had yesterday.

The Gauge

Original Poster:

2,026 posts

14 months

Thursday 2nd November 2023
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Turbobanana said:
A couple of thoughts:

1. While I agree that overcrowding is an issue, I also observe that it's sometimes down to the way people use the available space. Finding an unoccupied pair of seats and sitting on the aisle side effectively means the window seat is taken too, because many people won't ask to sit there. See also bags on seats.
On your first point I agree, but I'm the one sat in the aisle seat as I'm a big bloke and if I sat in the window seat then anyone sitting next to me would be partly hanging off their aisle seat. Therefore I sit in that seat leaving the window seat free for anyone who wants it, that way I move over a little giving then the full seat whilst I uncomfortably hang off my seat. But I do realise some might be intimidated or put off by the thought of sitting between the window and someone else. Me being big and ugly doesn't help them ether!

The Gauge

Original Poster:

2,026 posts

14 months

Wednesday 15th November 2023
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Just booked a return from Sheffield to St Pancras for 4th December, reserved seat at least. Hope it's not standing room only on the coaches.

Edited by The Gauge on Thursday 16th November 11:29

The Gauge

Original Poster:

2,026 posts

14 months

Thursday 16th November 2023
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The Gauge said:
Just booked a return from Sheffield to St Pancras with East Midlands Railway for 4th December, reserved seat at least. Hope it's not standing room only on the coaches.
And just a few hours after booking my tickets they announce train strikes that same week!!

4th Dec isn't affected, but I know the disruption from the strikes that week will put 4th Dec in turmoil, with everyone disrupted and clambering on trains on that day and the operator network massively disrupted. Looks like I may have to try and change my ticket date if that's possible.

The Gauge

Original Poster:

2,026 posts

14 months

Thursday 16th November 2023
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Do the Labour Party make any claims to improve our rail network, or are they as bad as the current government?

The Gauge

Original Poster:

2,026 posts

14 months

Saturday 18th November 2023
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Alickadoo said:
Is it normal practice for people to sit in a seat that is reserved - to someone else?

If so what do you do? "Oy you are in my seat, move?"
I never remember to look at the tiny screen above the seat to see if it's reserved, i'm normally too pleased to have found an empty seat I just jump in it. Then I realise I haven't checked and often have to do the 'standing up of shame' to check.

Occasionally the screens aren't working and then it's a gamble if your sat in someones seat.

When it used to be the paper ticket stuck into the top of each reserved seat it was much more obvious. But then I used to choose the seat I want, and move the reserved ticket onto another seat.

The Gauge

Original Poster:

2,026 posts

14 months

Saturday 9th December 2023
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Got two more visits to 'that there London' scheduled with tickets booked with East Midlands Railways, so I'm interested id seeing how the overcrowded situation is.

By the way, if anyone wants to know when the trains are next striking, it will be on those two days i'm going to London!!!

The Gauge

Original Poster:

2,026 posts

14 months

Saturday 13th April
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I upgraded to first class recently on my return train from Londinium to Sheffield. Enjoyable enough, though the coach was almost full. The trolley came down the coach with sandwiches, drinks, snacks etc. Then later on it came down again so I grabbed more.

The only problem was that I couldn't be arsed to leave my seat to inspect the cattle class coaches to see if they were overcrowded, which I really ought to have done as that could have provided even more satisfaction smile