New Kitcar Design Sketches and Concepts
Discussion
After a long while, I decided to start a new and dedicated thread on kitcar Design and styling.
We've seen many threads lately where we've talked about feasability, sales and manufacturing methods, it's all very good for information gathering but it would be interesting to see real concepts or real designs that could appeal to kitcar enthusiasts.
It would be nice and fun to see engineers and designers, enthusiasts and all, post their sketches or ideas, just for the fun of an interesting and healthy discussion.
Potentialy these ideas and sketches should consider the current and future kitcar market or maybe open up a new niche or resurect a defunct niche...who knows anything is possible.
Will post a few sketches of mine very soon...but looking forward to everybody elses...
Italo
We've seen many threads lately where we've talked about feasability, sales and manufacturing methods, it's all very good for information gathering but it would be interesting to see real concepts or real designs that could appeal to kitcar enthusiasts.
It would be nice and fun to see engineers and designers, enthusiasts and all, post their sketches or ideas, just for the fun of an interesting and healthy discussion.
Potentialy these ideas and sketches should consider the current and future kitcar market or maybe open up a new niche or resurect a defunct niche...who knows anything is possible.
Will post a few sketches of mine very soon...but looking forward to everybody elses...
Italo
slomax said:
fuoriserie said:
Here is my rough sketch for a retro inspired design body on MEV Sonic7/Rocket chassis and vehicle dimensions.
I would love to see it with modern wire wheels and BRG.......
This sketch is an image overlay of this picture
Did you use the MEV as an underlay to get the generic propertions and perspective roughly in place? I would love to see it with modern wire wheels and BRG.......
This sketch is an image overlay of this picture
I like your rendering tenchnique. Is is mostly chalks over limited marker then touched up in PS?
singlecoil said:
fuoriserie said:
There's no doubt that you are a talented designer, and I look forward to seeing any more sketches you have.I will be showing the other sketches , side and rear view, stil based on the Rocket chassis images I have in my files.
stig mills said:
Hope the actual MEV SONIC7 dimensions are of help to budding designers. Please note the measurements are slightly amended from this drawing which was for the prototype. Bracing was also modded for production Sonic7 cars. Wheel base is 2450. You will need 650mm from the floor to the top of the engine cover. Overall width is 1780. Have fun.
Thank you for the Blueprint Stuart.....cymtriks said:
On other threads I've often suggested a 2+2 and have cited the Caterham 21 as a starting point so here is roughly what I had in mind.
I've also suggested that the Fiat X1/9 could make a starting point for a new design. The buck for this is an X1/9 (so the buck is half finished on day one) with a racecar style minimal windscreen, aero fairings behind the seats and minor reshaping of the front and the rear panel. No doors which keeps things as simple as possible, just jump in. There might be many more mass produced cars that could be used as a short cut to a buck like this.
Apparently the molds for this lovely car, the Byers CR90, were lost many years ago. Can you imagine losing this? A few examples still exist. I'd change the side air vents for something like the Aston DBR1 or '58 Corvette but it looks lovely as it is. Another design without doors.
These cars have four cylinder engines but if you were resurecting the design it could be fitted with a V8 and be an alternative to the endless Cobra kits.
All very interesting designs and concepts and now you would need a chassis to base them on, any ideas ?I've also suggested that the Fiat X1/9 could make a starting point for a new design. The buck for this is an X1/9 (so the buck is half finished on day one) with a racecar style minimal windscreen, aero fairings behind the seats and minor reshaping of the front and the rear panel. No doors which keeps things as simple as possible, just jump in. There might be many more mass produced cars that could be used as a short cut to a buck like this.
Apparently the molds for this lovely car, the Byers CR90, were lost many years ago. Can you imagine losing this? A few examples still exist. I'd change the side air vents for something like the Aston DBR1 or '58 Corvette but it looks lovely as it is. Another design without doors.
These cars have four cylinder engines but if you were resurecting the design it could be fitted with a V8 and be an alternative to the endless Cobra kits.
cymtriks said:
So we now have:
Fuoriserie - MEV rebody
ajprice - Hotwheels inspired Seven rebody
Me - C21 inspired 2+2
Me - X1/9 inspired wedge barchetta
Me - Byers copy
ajprice - updated Midas & GTM
Stig Mills - Indian Rocket rebody
Surely there are more ideas than this?
It is already obvious that a lot of old kits could be brought back into production with a bit of updating, so far out of 8 concepts 4 are updates or copies of existing designs!
So are there any more...
I have a few more old sketches to show....Fuoriserie - MEV rebody
ajprice - Hotwheels inspired Seven rebody
Me - C21 inspired 2+2
Me - X1/9 inspired wedge barchetta
Me - Byers copy
ajprice - updated Midas & GTM
Stig Mills - Indian Rocket rebody
Surely there are more ideas than this?
It is already obvious that a lot of old kits could be brought back into production with a bit of updating, so far out of 8 concepts 4 are updates or copies of existing designs!
So are there any more...
dmulally said:
fuoriserie said:
dmulally said:
Hi Italo,
Do you do paid work for sketches? I think it is really great stuff!
Cheers
Damo
Hi Damo,Do you do paid work for sketches? I think it is really great stuff!
Cheers
Damo
Yes I do, and thank you for the comment....
Cheers
Italo
:-)
dmula*lly(at)yahoo.co.uk
(senza star per favore!)
dave de roxby said:
Just some doodles, definitely just doodles, from my scrap book. Quite embarrassing really!
Coupe drawn at Uni around 1968 when I should have been cramming for an exam:
Idea for a 'Frontini' based on a Vauxhall Whatsit
Doodle of a three-wheeler based on early Renault 5, drawn around 1988
That one might have worked!
Hi Dave, Coupe drawn at Uni around 1968 when I should have been cramming for an exam:
Idea for a 'Frontini' based on a Vauxhall Whatsit
Doodle of a three-wheeler based on early Renault 5, drawn around 1988
That one might have worked!
Edited by dave de roxby on Friday 21st January 23:39
I like the coupè...
Italo
Edited by fuoriserie on Saturday 22 January 18:07
Steve_D said:
fuoriserie said:
Another very rough sketch based on the MEV Sonic7 dimensions....
Now you realy do have me confused.8 posts back you put up a design where the driver clearly could not see out of the side of the car which I mentioned but got no response.
Now another with the same problem only moreso.
I truely do like your designs but they have to be both practical and compliant with the construction and use regulations otherwise they serve no purpose.
It has the same vision of an Audi TT...the sketch is slightly distorted due to the original image I used as an underlay, but if I used a sideview sketch of the chassis you could understand better the design and see better that you can actually look out of the car...
All my designs comply with regulations, they have to, otherwise it would make no sense as real kitcar concepts....
Italo
Steve_D said:
fuoriserie said:
.......All my designs comply with regulations, they have to, otherwise it would make no sense as real kitcar concepts....
Italo
As I said I love the designs so criticising them is difficult.Italo
In the earlier design the body does not cover the wheels. The requirement is that the wheel is covered 30 degrees forward of the wheel CL and 50 degrees rearward. Also the body, or a mudguard, to the rear of the wheel must extend down to a point 150mm above the wheel CL.
Steve
I agree with you and on this sketch I would use a mudguard for the rear if it ever went in production....but this is not a final sketch ready for production, but just for shooting the breeze so to speak....
Italo
slomax said:
SC-
It's interesting that this topic is being discussed again, It's one that will never be answered. People always hanker after a prettier car, and no matter what you do, there will always be people that don't like another mans design. No doubt, Italos' designs are nice, but proportionally, they are set in stone because he is working around a pre engineered chassis. You can try to trick the eye with graphics and feature lines, but the wheelbase, engine and suspension layout is pre-determined. Some people think this is the best way of working, as you are effectively making a fine piece of clothing for a frame.
This is probably the best way for the Kit car industry to work IMO.
I totally agree with you...it is the only way if you work with the curent kitcar industry, that due to the economic crisis and other, have a very limited budget to invest in any new design or project.It's interesting that this topic is being discussed again, It's one that will never be answered. People always hanker after a prettier car, and no matter what you do, there will always be people that don't like another mans design. No doubt, Italos' designs are nice, but proportionally, they are set in stone because he is working around a pre engineered chassis. You can try to trick the eye with graphics and feature lines, but the wheelbase, engine and suspension layout is pre-determined. Some people think this is the best way of working, as you are effectively making a fine piece of clothing for a frame.
This is probably the best way for the Kit car industry to work IMO.
What most can can really afford is to recloth an exhisting chassis and make the best of it.
The limitatations are inherent in the pre engineered chassis and this restricts some of your creativity when deciding what type of body would fit, but is also part of the fun in working with these type of projects...
Italo
Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 27th January 13:26
dave de roxby said:
I'd like to jump to Italo's defence and have to agree with Slomax's point of view, at least within a mainstream car production environment.
Italo has an obvious talent (and probably training?) in automotive art presentation. I wish I had half his abilities in this direction to get some of my ideas onto paper. Car design is evolutionary and needs lots of experiments in new directions before a production version is chosen. Hence the reason for sometimes adventurous or even 'whackey' drawings in the first place. So long as the artist/stylist/designer has something new to say, it is relatively cheap to churn out loads of styling ideas on paper.
Even if only a few small, novel elements are eventually incorporated into the production design, it is worth the effort. This is what happens ad infinitum in the design studios of the big car manufacturers, as we all know, for the most part series 5 being a development of series 4 etc. Only occasionally do we see a complete departure from the norm. Plagiarism abounds! But this is how evolution works.
However, the kit car world is necessarily very different! Here, almost exclusively, we are talking low budgets, minimum facilities and numbers of personnel (and therefore talent) involved - often a one-man-band scenario to start off with! In one way a good thing - no restraints on a new design. But, in another way, not so good - no tried and tested yardstick to develop the new car from, unless you pinch someone elses's design. Without being too critical, that is why the kit car scene is full of oddities with no major sales potential, or replicas - the easy way out. (But look what happens when a few guys and gals with a spread of talents and resources get together - LBird!!??)
It seems Italo sometimes uses a clever starting point which is to draw over a photograph of an existing car which at least exists and works in the real world. I've tried this myself. At least you get a design which stands a chance of being dimensionally viable. But the fact is, you can only test its true functionality and aesthetic appeal by building a full size mock-up. Very expensive in the kit-car world unless you get it right first time!
The OP was making a challenging request to ask budding designers to reveal their ideas on this thread - OK if they are simply designers, willing to show off their talents, maybe in the hope of gaining employment or becoming part of a team - nowt wrong with that. I do hope more concepts are posted. Go on, be brave!
But in reality, I think if a designer has any intention of actually building a new car to enter the commercial kit car scene, then they are unlikely to be revealing much on here?
Hi Dave,Italo has an obvious talent (and probably training?) in automotive art presentation. I wish I had half his abilities in this direction to get some of my ideas onto paper. Car design is evolutionary and needs lots of experiments in new directions before a production version is chosen. Hence the reason for sometimes adventurous or even 'whackey' drawings in the first place. So long as the artist/stylist/designer has something new to say, it is relatively cheap to churn out loads of styling ideas on paper.
Even if only a few small, novel elements are eventually incorporated into the production design, it is worth the effort. This is what happens ad infinitum in the design studios of the big car manufacturers, as we all know, for the most part series 5 being a development of series 4 etc. Only occasionally do we see a complete departure from the norm. Plagiarism abounds! But this is how evolution works.
However, the kit car world is necessarily very different! Here, almost exclusively, we are talking low budgets, minimum facilities and numbers of personnel (and therefore talent) involved - often a one-man-band scenario to start off with! In one way a good thing - no restraints on a new design. But, in another way, not so good - no tried and tested yardstick to develop the new car from, unless you pinch someone elses's design. Without being too critical, that is why the kit car scene is full of oddities with no major sales potential, or replicas - the easy way out. (But look what happens when a few guys and gals with a spread of talents and resources get together - LBird!!??)
It seems Italo sometimes uses a clever starting point which is to draw over a photograph of an existing car which at least exists and works in the real world. I've tried this myself. At least you get a design which stands a chance of being dimensionally viable. But the fact is, you can only test its true functionality and aesthetic appeal by building a full size mock-up. Very expensive in the kit-car world unless you get it right first time!
The OP was making a challenging request to ask budding designers to reveal their ideas on this thread - OK if they are simply designers, willing to show off their talents, maybe in the hope of gaining employment or becoming part of a team - nowt wrong with that. I do hope more concepts are posted. Go on, be brave!
But in reality, I think if a designer has any intention of actually building a new car to enter the commercial kit car scene, then they are unlikely to be revealing much on here?
I agree with your comments and thanks for the defence....
My initial idea for the post was to have an open discussion on kitcar design, just as we're having, for the sake of a deeper understanding of car design and what is involved, from styling to engineering and most importantly ergonomics .
In reference to my rough sketches, most are created to start a discussion and have others involved critique and discuss and yes I do use images as underlays to have an idea of how the design would look like.
By experience I can tell you that most of the time, maybe 85-90% of the time, they're close to the final design...
In reality for a real projetc, I'm normally supplied with chassis blueprints and more to design a real car for production.
Yes I'm trained in car design, but I normally don't come forward with it openly, as I'm here to enjoy myself, make friends and have fun shooting the breeze during the day....
I also agree with you, that if someone was willing to enter the scene maybe he wouldn't be showing something like the final design rendering, but the FBS Census design story should have taught us a few lessons, and that car design feedback of your potential customer is vital for any project to succeed, as you could end up with something that nobody is really interested in buying or your are answering questions nobody asked...so i would show something.
You're always going to decide on your own on any kitcar design project, but having some constructive critisism and feedback is good in my opinion.
If I ever was going into production with a kitcar, I would be willing to show a Concept Kitcar sketch, close enough to the real car project but not exactly the same...but that would be me and haven't really seen many others do so...
Cheers
Italo
Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 27th January 14:15
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