Discussion
Patrick Bateman said:
There are varying degrees though. Anyone who actually believes in things like Noah's Ark having 2 of every animal or Muhammad flying to heaven on a winged horse/splitting the moon are clearly delusional with that belief.
I think that once a person starts dismissing the bits of religious belief that a modern human being can hardly deny to be the erroneous myths of primitive peoples, he would need to be wilfully gullible not to question the divine provenance of the whole thing. "Oh, that bit is just a metaphor, and has been ever since it was proven to us not to be literally true. But the rest of it, that's all definitely true, nailed on certainty". MonkeyHanger said:
Laurel Green said:
Asterix said:
GG89 said:
Is the Help for Heroes website down for everyone? I've been trying to get on since yesterday with no luck. Must be really busy.
I hope so. Busy, I mean.Doesn't help you though mate - sorry.
HFH said:
HELP FOR HEROES HOLDING PAGE
Help for Heroes was appalled to hear of the brutal murder of a serving soldier in Woolwich. We are desperately saddened to hear of this sickening attack and offer our thoughts and prayers to his family, colleagues and family.
H4H was born of a simple desire to help those affected by service to our country. It is their duty to serve and our privilege to support them and their families.
We would like to reassure all our volunteers, fundraisers and supporters that all scheduled events will go ahead as planned.
Thousands of people have visited our website wishing to donate or to buy H4H T-Shirts in an extraordinary demonstration of support and defiance of terrorism. We are working hard to respond to this level of activity and would ask you to help us in the following ways:
To donate, go to our commission free on line donation site (this site is owned and operated by Help for Heroes).
To donate by telephone, please call 01725 514 130
Or Text "HERO" to 70900 to donate £5.
If you can't get through to our shop please email your order request to shop@helpforheroes.org.uk, we will do our best to call you back to take your order. Please help by being patient.
Alternatively please send your order or donation by post to Help for Heroes, 14 Parker's Close, Downton Business Centre, Salisbury SP5 3RB
If you have a media enquiry please email prcomms@helpforheroes.org.uk or call us on 01725 514 276
For general enquiries please telephone our team of volunteers on 01980 846 459
Thank you for your support
Team H4H
Help for Heroes was appalled to hear of the brutal murder of a serving soldier in Woolwich. We are desperately saddened to hear of this sickening attack and offer our thoughts and prayers to his family, colleagues and family.
H4H was born of a simple desire to help those affected by service to our country. It is their duty to serve and our privilege to support them and their families.
We would like to reassure all our volunteers, fundraisers and supporters that all scheduled events will go ahead as planned.
Thousands of people have visited our website wishing to donate or to buy H4H T-Shirts in an extraordinary demonstration of support and defiance of terrorism. We are working hard to respond to this level of activity and would ask you to help us in the following ways:
To donate, go to our commission free on line donation site (this site is owned and operated by Help for Heroes).
To donate by telephone, please call 01725 514 130
Or Text "HERO" to 70900 to donate £5.
If you can't get through to our shop please email your order request to shop@helpforheroes.org.uk, we will do our best to call you back to take your order. Please help by being patient.
Alternatively please send your order or donation by post to Help for Heroes, 14 Parker's Close, Downton Business Centre, Salisbury SP5 3RB
If you have a media enquiry please email prcomms@helpforheroes.org.uk or call us on 01725 514 276
For general enquiries please telephone our team of volunteers on 01980 846 459
Thank you for your support
Team H4H
If you cant get onto H4H directly
mondeoman said:
You can believe in whichever fairies you want to believe in, but you can also expect those who don't hold your beliefs to rip the s
t out of you. If your belief is a deeply held, profoundly true belief, then people ripping the st out of you wont be a problem, because you're comfortable that what you believe in is the absolute truth, aren't you? Aren't you?
And if you ever go round and try and use your fairy belief as an excuse to kill someone, then you are outside of the bounds of reasonable society and deserve everything you get.
The problem with this is that some peoples deeply held beliefs include the belief that people who "rip the st out of you. If your belief is a deeply held, profoundly true belief, then people ripping the st out of you wont be a problem, because you're comfortable that what you believe in is the absolute truth, aren't you? Aren't you?And if you ever go round and try and use your fairy belief as an excuse to kill someone, then you are outside of the bounds of reasonable society and deserve everything you get.
t" out of their beliefs should be killed. While this is not a reasonable reaction in our society that won't prevent you from being killed. I've lived outside of the UK for nigh on a decade.
You get a completely different perspective when you look at it from the outside in.
When you're there, all the crap gets taken with a large degree of resignation, you get your head down, try and make the best of it and try to do the best you can without making any fuss.
We see it in black and white, not shades of grey. There is going to be a revolution, of sorts, sooner rather than later. Not just against things like this, but against everything. It's going to be huge and it's going to hit hard. It might not be for the immediate better, but it's going to happen within the next ten years.
You get a completely different perspective when you look at it from the outside in.
When you're there, all the crap gets taken with a large degree of resignation, you get your head down, try and make the best of it and try to do the best you can without making any fuss.
We see it in black and white, not shades of grey. There is going to be a revolution, of sorts, sooner rather than later. Not just against things like this, but against everything. It's going to be huge and it's going to hit hard. It might not be for the immediate better, but it's going to happen within the next ten years.
drivin_me_nuts said:
Ummm. Do you think that the funeral of Lee Rigby will be used as the catalyst for both sides of the stupid brigade to cause trouble. I do wonder if his funeral and burial place will be both a private affair and secret location.
I really hope it isnt.in fact
it better not be. I would like to think that it was made public so people could show some kind of support for the family.
it would be more than bad if any of those turn up. they had the sense to stay away from wootoon Basset i think they would know better.
mondeoman said:
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/autosubmit-donatio...That's the direct link to the official H4H donations page. It works
Rollcage said:
There is now a Facebook group proposing a memorial be built. Sounds like a good idea to me!
https://www.facebook.com/MemorialForLee/posts/2004...
That photo would make a great postage stamp. We could have the profile head of the queen in gold in the corner. Royal Mail could give a percentage to H4H and the British Legion, but the stuff in the news about people leaving the board of the British Legion being given Gagging Orders raises some concerns to me.https://www.facebook.com/MemorialForLee/posts/2004...
The military are fighting for our values and freedoms while people high up in the NHS and the British Legion are getting Gagging Orders?
And we're back to religion? 'My way or the highway'?
otolith said:
I think that once a person starts dismissing the bits of religious belief that a modern human being can hardly deny to be the erroneous myths of primitive peoples, he would need to be wilfully gullible not to question the divine provenance of the whole thing. "Oh, that bit is just a metaphor, and has been ever since it was proven to us not to be literally true. But the rest of it, that's all definitely true, nailed on certainty".
I agree.As society moves on and parts of the text become unacceptable in society the metaphor card is played. Islam seems to be more of an exception though.
fluffnik said:
Pr1964 said:
So where exactly would we get our morals from?
The evolutionary advantage they bring.Most aspects of "moral" behaviour seem to be innate and present in all population regardless of religion.
What religion most often does is excuse or demand immoral behaviour, such as genocide or the enslavement or murder of "infidels".
The evolutionary advantage would be for the strongest and most aggressive to survive, so there would be few moral rules.
Moral behaviour has been shown by history to be absent by much of history where and when religion has been removed.
Think "Nazis, Cambodian genocide there is a very long list"
"What religion most often does is excuse or demand immoral behaviour, such as genocide or the enslavement or murder of "infidels"."
I think you've confused religion with megalomaniacs and criminals who did things for their own gain in the name of religion.
mondeoman said:
brilliantthanks
will send that link to all my work colleagues.
mondeoman said:
Come and say that to my face you 
You're beyond pity.Edit to add
I think everyone knows who the
is I'll give you a clue it's not me.Mod note: Enough, chaps. Calm down and as someone has asked already can we move on from this religious discussion as it doesn't belong here.
Edited by Bill on Thursday 23 May 20:34
Pr1964 said:
I believe God created us,
Yup, and then he created Eve from the rib of Adam. And Eve fed Adam a special apple from and special tree, against the wishes of an invisible magic man in the sky, having been persuaded to do so by a talking snake.And you think you should be immune from ridicule from believing this? I think if you're under the age of 7, maybe so. But I'm guessing you were born in 1964, making you 48/49, in which case, ridicule is the natural response.
Pr1964 said:
I think that your expected outcome is unlikely and there is historical proof.
The evolutionary advantage would be for the strongest and most aggressive to survive, so there would be few moral rules.
Moral behaviour has been shown by history to be absent by much of history where and when religion has been removed.
Think "Nazis, Cambodian genocide there is a very long list"
"What religion most often does is excuse or demand immoral behaviour, such as genocide or the enslavement or murder of "infidels"."
I think you've confused religion with megalomaniacs and criminals who did things for their own gain in the name of religion.
"This is what the Lord Almighty says ... 'Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.' "The evolutionary advantage would be for the strongest and most aggressive to survive, so there would be few moral rules.
Moral behaviour has been shown by history to be absent by much of history where and when religion has been removed.
Think "Nazis, Cambodian genocide there is a very long list"
"What religion most often does is excuse or demand immoral behaviour, such as genocide or the enslavement or murder of "infidels"."
I think you've confused religion with megalomaniacs and criminals who did things for their own gain in the name of religion.
Quite.
Edited by Patrick Bateman on Thursday 23 May 20:31
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Pr1964 said:
I believe God created us,
Yup, and then he created Eve from the rib of Adam. And Eve fed Adam a special apple from and special tree, against the wishes of an invisible magic man in the sky, having been persuaded to do so by a talking snake.And you think you should be immune from ridicule from believing this? I think if you're under the age of 7, maybe so. But I'm guessing you were born in 1964, making you 48/49, in which case, ridicule is the natural response.
It was all written by men a long time ago religion has move on.
You have not.
Rollcage said:
There is now a Facebook group proposing a memorial be built. Sounds like a good idea to me!
https://www.facebook.com/MemorialForLee/posts/2004...
'liked'https://www.facebook.com/MemorialForLee/posts/2004...
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