London capital and finance
Discussion
bhstewie said:
One thing that on a personal anecdotal note I'll never understand is what is it with miners that seems to attract people who are convinced that "any day now" they'll strike gold (literally) enough to invest life altering sums in single AIM type stocks.
It's interesting you raise this point especially mentioning AIM, I spend a lot of time on Canadian Mining forums and every second comment from retired Geologists etc is "oh that's a UK/European Pump and dump", there is a whole industry in Canada set up for lifestyle mining stocks. I've had some astounding results 30 -50X but most bomb out and it's sane to put small amounts in as the balance of probability is the stock will fail. Rick Rule formally of Sprott often quotes as 1 in 3000 the likelihood of a small promoter finding gold and actually getting to produce/sell it.Small cap oil is only trotting behind them
Yup. The ASX and TSX are the original home of the man with a van and a hole pitching himself as the next Barrick.
Folk have always had an obsession with throwing money at a bloke who can't even wear his trousers properly but claims to be able to dig a hole above something of value.
The real eye opener is when you realise that most of these mining companies are literally two toothless alcoholics living in a caravan and fighting over a broken shovel when not trying to rape a squirrel.
Folk have always had an obsession with throwing money at a bloke who can't even wear his trousers properly but claims to be able to dig a hole above something of value.
The real eye opener is when you realise that most of these mining companies are literally two toothless alcoholics living in a caravan and fighting over a broken shovel when not trying to rape a squirrel.
DonkeyApple said:
Yup. The ASX and TSX are the original home of the man with a van and a hole pitching himself as the next Barrick.
Folk have always had an obsession with throwing money at a bloke who can't even wear his trousers properly but claims to be able to dig a hole above something of value.
The real eye opener is when you realise that most of these mining companies are literally two toothless alcoholics living in a caravan and fighting over a broken shovel when not trying to rape a squirrel.
How dare you say that about my stock of week, which I will release tomorrow for $99.99Folk have always had an obsession with throwing money at a bloke who can't even wear his trousers properly but claims to be able to dig a hole above something of value.
The real eye opener is when you realise that most of these mining companies are literally two toothless alcoholics living in a caravan and fighting over a broken shovel when not trying to rape a squirrel.
bhstewie said:
Interesting that individual auditors appear to have been fined I assumed it would all be hidden behind the company involved?
It’s one of the oddities of the regime: the FRC hammers the firms and individual engagement partners. Similar approach taken by the US regulator. It means that, perversely imho, the audit firms are now obsessed about the risk of regulatory action and indeed, in my experience, far more than the management of the companies being audited (and which are the main perpetrators of crappy and/or fraudulent reporting).
Having said that, the level of disquiet doesn’t seem to be stemming the tide of FRC findings these days.
They are an incredibly important element of the UK's service industry so it is important that employees who are only at the firms for a short period of the businesses' life feel assured that they face ruin when they find themselves erring towards bending the rules for a bonus. There's nothing like it for focussing an employee's mind than personal financial accountability.
basherX said:
It’s one of the oddities of the regime: the FRC hammers the firms and individual engagement partners. Similar approach taken by the US regulator.
It means that, perversely imho, the audit firms are now obsessed about the risk of regulatory action and indeed, in my experience, far more than the management of the companies being audited (and which are the main perpetrators of crappy and/or fraudulent reporting).
Having said that, the level of disquiet doesn’t seem to be stemming the tide of FRC findings these days.
Excuse my naivety but is personal liability a seniority thing or a role thing?It means that, perversely imho, the audit firms are now obsessed about the risk of regulatory action and indeed, in my experience, far more than the management of the companies being audited (and which are the main perpetrators of crappy and/or fraudulent reporting).
Having said that, the level of disquiet doesn’t seem to be stemming the tide of FRC findings these days.
As in are these people literally partners in the company or is it based purely on their professional qualifications and being the named individual for the audit?
Probably not explained that as well as I'd like
bhstewie said:
Excuse my naivety but is personal liability a seniority thing or a role thing?
As in are these people literally partners in the company or is it based purely on their professional qualifications and being the named individual for the audit?
Probably not explained that as well as I'd like
It is a named individual thing mainly. Every statutory audit under the Companies Act must have a Responsible Individual (also known as the Audit Engagement Partner). Typically these are partners or directors (senior employees) although very rarely these days they could be a senior manager. Large audits will also have a second RI assigned as an Engagement Quality Control Reviewer (usually a more experienced RI).As in are these people literally partners in the company or is it based purely on their professional qualifications and being the named individual for the audit?
Probably not explained that as well as I'd like
They sign the audit report as Senior Statutory Auditor. The RI must be a Registered Auditor on the Register of Statutory Auditors.
To become a Registered Auditor, you have to be a qualified member of a Recognised Supervisory Body (ICAS, ICAEW, ACCA or CAI), hold the Audit Qualification (straightforward - only requires two years post-qualification audit experience) and a Practising Certificate (less straightforward - how to show suitable experience etc).
Audit firms and RIs are regulated by their relevant RSB. They carry out sample and targeted inspections of audit files and can bring disciplinary proceedings against the firm and RI. Tier 1 (Big 4, Grant Thornton, Mazars and BDO) and Tier 2/3 firms that audit Public Interest Entities are also subject to regulation by the Financial Reporting Council's Audit Quality Review team, which can also bring disciplinary proceedings (as happened here).
Any company company in scope of US Securities regulations will also have their audit subject to Securities Exchange Commission (SEC)/Public Companies Accounting Oversight Board (PCAOB).
In terms of disciplinary proceedings in relation to an individual audit engagement, they will almost always bring proceedings against both the RI and the audit firm. Sometimes the allegations admitted and a settlement is reached with the FRC's Executive Counsel. Other times it goes to an independent tribunal.
The record UK fines wrre imposed on KPMG for their audits of Carillion:
- KPMG was fined £21 million and severely reprimanded
- Peter Meehan (partner) was fined £350,000 and excluded from ICAEW membership for 10 years.
They were also disciplined for misleading the AQR investigation into the Carilliin audits (the audit team prepared documents after the fact and presented them to AQR as if they had been prepared during the audit). In this case they also went after the managers and a trainee who had prepared the documents at their instruction:
- KPMG were fined £14.4mvand severely reprimanded.
- Peter Meehan was fined £250,000 and excluded for 10 years
- Mr Wright (senior manager) was fined £45,000 and excluded for 8 years.
- Mr Bennet (manager) was fined £40,000 and excluded for 8 years
- Mr Kitchen (manager) was fined £30,000 and excluded for 7 years
- Mr Paw (3rd year trainee) was severely reprimanded (Executive Counsel wanted him excluded for 4 years and fined £50,000, which would have been twice his salary at the time as compared to about half of the partner's earnings).
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