Could you survive a fall into water....

Could you survive a fall into water....

Author
Discussion

Jonny671

29,404 posts

190 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2008
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Did anyone see what they did on Mythbusters?

They dropped "Buster" from about 60ft and he just basically broke into pieces. They even dropped a hammer first to break the surface of the water, it did no better.

Their outcome was certain death even from that little height.

lingus75

1,698 posts

223 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2008
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If you were falling from that height could'nt you make an arrow shape and travel horizontally as opposed to purely vertically and enter the water at as shallow an angle as possible?

AngryS3Owner

15,855 posts

230 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2008
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touching cloth said:
Methinks Nick was yanking your plonker yes
Surely not, he wouldn't do something like that, right? irked

Fume troll

Original Poster:

4,389 posts

213 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2008
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lingus75 said:
If you were falling from that height could'nt you make an arrow shape and travel horizontally as opposed to purely vertically and enter the water at as shallow an angle as possible?
laugh Wouldn't be my first choice of plan, no!

Cheers,

FT.

thewave

14,718 posts

210 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2008
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hornetrider said:
IThere's also the possibility that if you didn't die on impact, you'd go so deep you might end up suffering from the bends and die anyway? Oh the irony! Woohoo! I'm alive!! Oh, hang on, what's that funny feeling...
Bends not an issue from holding breath

touching cloth

11,706 posts

240 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2008
quotequote all
lingus75 said:
If you were falling from that height could'nt you make an arrow shape and travel horizontally as opposed to purely vertically and enter the water at as shallow an angle as possible?
I have been cultivating a healthy set of "bingo wings" for this very reason.

paul99

803 posts

244 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2008
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Yeah i watched the Mythbusters test, i think you would be very dead no matter how you hit the water!

SleeperCell

5,591 posts

243 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2008
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Fume troll said:
Flying home last night from Stavanger to Aberdeen, there was a moment when I could smell burning. Turned out to be the cabin crew burning something in the galley... but it got me wondering.

Lets imagine you're flying at sufficient height (above the sea) to achieve terminal velocity. Lets say 10,000 ft for the sake of it. You fall or jump out of the plane.

What's your survival stragegy? Try to land on your back? Or go in feet first, legs crosseed, covering your face with your hands? Try and slow yourself with clothing or a seat cover or something?

Think I read about someone who fell out of a Russian plane into a swamp and survived...

Cheers,

FT.
http://www.greenharbor.com/fffolder/carkeet.html

CaptainSlow

13,179 posts

213 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2008
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it has been proven that is you enter at the precise angle of 87.98 degrees you won't suffer any ill effects (as long as you hold your breath) any other angle and its like hitting concrete.

scorp

8,783 posts

230 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2008
quotequote all
lingus75 said:
If you were falling from that height could'nt you make an arrow shape and travel horizontally as opposed to purely vertically and enter the water at as shallow an angle as possible?
You would probably hit a bump at a few hundred miles an hour and do very fast cartwheels until your legs fly off i imagine. Seen some video of a plane doing similiar at much lower speeds.

CaptainSlow said:
it has been proven that is you enter at the precise angle of 87.98 degrees you won't suffer any ill effects (as long as you hold your breath) any other angle and its like hitting concrete.
Presumably the water would be perfectly flat, and this proof has been done on paper ? Anyway as soon as your heal/fingers or whatever hits first, you would make generate turbulance in the water and then be ripped apart as water jets fly into you. imo.

editted (lots) for crap spelling

Edited by scorp on Wednesday 23 July 12:25

Davi

17,153 posts

221 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2008
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CaptainSlow said:
it has been proven that is you enter at the precise angle of 87.98 degrees you won't suffer any ill effects (as long as you hold your breath) any other angle and its like hitting concrete.
sorted - I'll carry a protractor on every flight in the future.

thewave

14,718 posts

210 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2008
quotequote all
Fume troll said:
lingus75 said:
If you were falling from that height could'nt you make an arrow shape and travel horizontally as opposed to purely vertically and enter the water at as shallow an angle as possible?
laugh Wouldn't be my first choice of plan, no!

Cheers,

FT.
I think what he means is, get some sort of forward motion, then 'pencilling' but getting the angle right would be incredibly difficult, but probably offer more chance than hitting flat trying to break the surface horizonatally

FourWheelDrift

88,692 posts

285 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2008
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World record for highest recorded dive - 172ft - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drFbUejdTpw

Feet first.

Fume troll

Original Poster:

4,389 posts

213 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2008
quotequote all
http://www.greenharbor.com/fffolder/ffallers.html said:
Notable Free Fallers

I.M. Chisov

Lt. I.M. Chisov was a Russian airman whose Ilyushin IL-4 bomber was attacked by German fighters in January of 1942. Falling nearly 22,000 feet, he hit the edge of a snow-covered ravine and rolled to the bottom. He was badly hurt but survived.

Alan Magee

Alan Magee, a gunner on a B-17 with the 303rd Bomb Group of the U.S. 8th Air Force, was on a mission to St. Nazaire, France in January of 1943, when his bomber was set aflame by enemy fire. He was thrown from the plane before he had a chance to put on his parachute. He fell 20,000 feet and crashed onto* the skylight of the St. Nazaire train station. His arm was badly injured, but he recovered from that and other injuries.
  • At first the descriptions of the incident made it appear that he had fallen through the skylight but it appears now that he hit the angled skylight and landed on the roof of the train station. We continue to investigate. See this link for a filmmaker's take on Magee's fall.

Nicholas Alkemade

In March of 1944, Nicholas Alkemade was the tail gunner in a British Lancaster bomber on a night mission to Berlin when his plane was attacked by German fighters. When the captain ordered the crew to bail out, Alkemade looked back into the plane and discovered that his parachute was in flames. He chose to jump without a parachute rather than to stay in the burning plane. He fell 18,000 feet, landing in trees, underbrush, and drifted snow. He twisted his knee and had some cuts, but was otherwise alright.

Olen Cooper Bryant

Olen Cooper Bryant was the group navigator on a 485th Bomb Group mission to Regensburg, Germany in February of 1945. On the return trip from the target his B-24 was hit by enemy anti-aircraft fire in the #3 engine. The aircraft turned to the left and collided with another B-24 in the formation. The aircraft were at an altitude of about 17,000 feet at this point. Bryant fell an estimated 10,000 feet into the mountains near Chiusaforte, Italy. He landed in deep snow. His fall had been observed by two gunners, who dragged him down the side of the mountain in a makeshift stretcher constructed from one of their parachutes. Bryant suffered neck, back, pelvic, and facial injuries but survived.
Cheers,

FT.

scorp

8,783 posts

230 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2008
quotequote all
Fume troll said:
Cheers,

FT.
Got any of people hitting water yet ?

renrut

1,478 posts

206 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2008
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CaptainSlow said:
it has been proven that is you enter at the precise angle of 87.98 degrees you won't suffer any ill effects (as long as you hold your breath) any other angle and its like hitting concrete.
but thats rounded up from the actual 87.98527165402984923485692386491826 and that big a difference will leave you alive but without the family jewels...

thewave

14,718 posts

210 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2008
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Would there be some sort of 'pocket' kit you could carry that would increase your chances of survival?

Perhaps a colander type object that goes to a perfect point that you could strap to your feet?

Also, take your clothes off, (not your pants) tie them to each other and hold them out to help increase drag?

Fume troll

Original Poster:

4,389 posts

213 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2008
quotequote all
Some other fallers...

Joe Herman

In April of 1944, Joe Herman was the pilot of a Royal Australian Air Force Halifax on a mission to bomb munition factories at Bochum. After dropping its bombs, Herman's Halifax was struck by enemy fire. Herman ordered his crew to bail out. Before he could grab his parachute, the plane exploded and he was thrown into the air. In mid-air, he collided with John Vivash, the mid-upper gunner, and grabbed onto Vivash's left leg around the same time as Vivash was opening his parachute. The parachute inflated slowly, which helped Herman maintain his grasp on Vivash. The two men came down safely under Vivash's parachute.

Ken Topaz

In May of 1966, Flight Lt. Ken Topaz was the Air Electronics Officer on a Canberra B2 during a training flight. Experiencing troubles while landing, Topaz activated his ejection seat just as the plane's wingtip hit the ground. He ejected approximately twenty feet into the air, and landed before the parachute opened. He was badly injured but returned to flying after 18 months of hospitalization and rehabilitation. The pilot and navigator both died. Amazingly enough, Topaz is not the only person ever to have survived an ejection without also benefitting from a parachute. (See Greg Elcock below.) There is also an entry in the Incident Log in regard to another such incident. It also turns out that there are several pilots who have survived underwater ejections!

Greg Elcock

In October of 1984, Lt. Cmdr. Greg Elcock was flying a U.S. Navy EA-6B Prowler whose landing gear failed during landing on the U.S.S. Constellation (CV-64). Three electronic warfare officers in the Prowler ejected and their parachutes saved them. Elcock ejected as the aircraft nosed down into the water. He and his seat skipped across the waves and then separated. Elcock's automatic flotation device deployed and he survived with two fractured vertebrae and some internal injuries.

Al Wilson

Al Wilson was a barnstorming plane-changer (i.e., someone who would step from the wings of one plane to another in flight). One day over southern California, Wilson accidentally stepped off a wing into the air, without a parachute. A pilot named Frank Clarke was flying below and behind, and flew down toward the falling Wilson. Wilson crashed head-first into Clarke's Jenny biplane and stuck in the upper wing panel. Clarke landed the plane and Wilson emerged alive.

Cliff Judkins

In June of 1963, Lt. Cliff Judkins' F-8 Crusader jet fighter caught fire over the Pacific Ocean during refueling. His ejection seat failed and he was forced to bail out manually (something that no one had ever done successfully from an F-8). Judkins leaped from the aircraft, but his parachute did not open. He hit the water and was pulled out alive about two and a half hours later. He returned to flying after a six-month hospital stay. See the following link for a newspaper article on Judkin's fall.

Don Neville

Early in 1945, Sgt. Don Neville was a gunner on a 458th Bomb Group B-24 bomber that blew up on take-off from its base in England. He fell about 200 feet into a clump of bushes and survived. Another crew member rode the severed tail to the ground and also survived.

Eddie Szula

According to a 1942 Believe It or Not cartoon, Szula fell 2,000 feet when his parachute failed. He bounced four feet and never lost consciousness.

Colombian girl

In January of 1995 a nine-year-old Colombian girl was the only survivor of a crash of a DC-9 jet near Cartagena, Colombia. It is believed she fell out of the plane when it broke up at 9,000 feet or so. She fell into a swampy area in Maria La Baja.


Ken Wright

In June of 1945, Ken Wright was test flying a Mustang Mk 3. He engaged in some mock dogfighting, after which his aircraft began a diving turn that he could not get out of. With his airspeed indicator showing about 600 miles per hour, the plane started to disintegrate. First the tail section broke off, and then the wings. Unconscious at that point, Wright's body came free of the plane at low altitude, his parachute opening by chance. As the silk began to stream out, Wright was flung into the top branches of an oak tree, through a hedgerow, and into a farmers field where he left a trail of flattened oats about 200 yards long. Wright's wingman assumed his friend was dead, but then he saw Wright sit up. Wright was out of the hospital in three weeks and resumed flying after seven weeks.

Peter Underdown

In October of 1954, Peter Underdown was flying a North American Sabre jet fighter that disintegrated in mid-air at around 2,000 feet. He was flung, still strapped in his ejection seat, into an orchard where he was found lodged in the branches of an apple tree. He had a number of broken bones and had no memory of the incident, but he was released from the hospital four weeks later. Apparently his low trajectory, which matched the angle of the sloping ground, and the protection of the ejection seat, which was facing forward when he went into the orchard, contributed to his survival.

Najib Ibrahim

In May of 2002 Najib Ibrahim jumped from a flaming airliner onto a rooftop as the plane crashed in Kano, Nigeria. He survived with minor burns and a non-life-threatening blood clot in his liver. More than 70 passengers died and nearly as many lives were lost on the ground.
Fred Bist In mid-1942 Fred Bist was a mid-upper gunner in a Boston bomber on a low-level mission over France. His aircraft was hit by flak and broke in two. At about 500 feet, Bist was thrown from the aircraft without his parachute. He landed in a plowed field and was found by two German soldiers who took him to a hospital. In addition to burns and injuries from the flak, he also broke his neck and hand.

Ken Burns

In August of 1943 Burns was a pilot in a Lancaster bomber that was set on fire by a German night fighter. He ordered his crew to bale out, which they did, and was trimming the plane so that he could exit when the fire reached the bomb bay and blew up the 4,000 lb. bomb there. Burns was blown out of the plane and dropped three miles to the earth. He woke up about three hours later lying in a plowed field. He found his parachute unopened, but a small streamer of silk had slipped out, which may have slowed his descent some as had the branches of some nearby pine trees. Burns' right forearm had been blown away by the explosion. Other injuries included a collapsed lung and a cracked spine.

Z. Gutowski

A Polish Spitfire pilot named Gutowski was escorting some bombers back from a raid to France when his aircraft was hit by flak and knocked into a spin. He recovered from the spin in time to engage enemy fighters, but his Spitfire was hit again and sent into another spin. Too low to pull out, he bailed out at an altitude he estimated to be 150 feet. Just as his parachute began to stream out of its pack he hit a big pile of beet leaves and bounced to the ground unhurt. Ten yards away was the smoking wreckage of his plane.

Capitaine Larmier

In May of 1940, an artillery observer named Larmier was a passenger in a Potez 63. Damaged by flak, the twin-engined aircraft headed down. At about 100 feet Larmier jumped, pulled his ripcord, and hoped for the best. He hit the ground as the parachute began to stream out, landing on the top of a haystack. He survived unhurt.

R.C. Sharma

In November of 1997, R.C. Sharma, the director of the Indian Central Bureau of Investigation was seriously injured when he fell while waving from the door of an Indian Airlines plane at Borjhar Airport. However it should be noted that the plane was on the ground at the time.

Cheers,

FT.

scorp

8,783 posts

230 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2008
quotequote all
thewave said:
Perhaps a colander type object that goes to a perfect point that you could strap to your feet?
Wouldn't work, it would pierce the water with little resistance, up until your foot gets there, which would be a lot less hydrodynamic (assuming a spike of something was attached to your feet, slight deviation from a collander but i digress..). You couldn't sit in side one also as i imagine as the bouyancy it would make as it quickly submerged would cause too much shock.

Edited by scorp on Wednesday 23 July 12:31

bite-me

524 posts

228 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2008
quotequote all
she hit trees/branches, which broke her fall,
and she did break a few bones

same story as a Lancaster bomber pilot who bailed out and parachute failed

DoubleYellow said:
A woman fell 36,000 feet from a plane and survived. She landed in a rainforest. If I remember correctly, she didn't break any bones. Just cuts and bruises. That really is some feat when you think about the logistics of it!

I imagine 10,000 feet into water would have the same impact as concrete. I would say guaranteed death. There aren't any factors that could come into it because of the plain suface (not like you could aim for something to break your fall).

However, i would go for feet first if I had to make the decision.