Is car finance the way to go now?
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
you are not wrong in what you say, but there are assumptions built into your reaction I believe...why do we believe that everyone should go to University? (that is very different from everyone having an opportunity...)
if we want less debt then we need to tackle a number of things - consumerism being the big one... do we need a new iphone 7? of course not, do we need (to be roughly on topic!) a nice new car leased at £xxx p/m - of course not, do we need new clothes - probably not, do we need to go out and spend money to socialise etc., of course not - yet that is what our society tells us - why do we now see entertainment as being more valuable if paid for, things better if shrink-wrapped and bought than home made (food / toys / etc.) - our values have changed enormously... how does that get changed - by changing what is seen as cool / trendy - making it fashionable to have a games night at home costing virtually nothing v. going out and spending lots of money at a pub or club
do people need to own houses? no they don't we need to have housing available, the mechanism as to who owns it is less important...
as for making changes, suggesting that everyone under a certain age should leave is hardly practicable or sensible - if change is needed then it does need sensible honest people to make that change, it is only because they see inertia stopping it that they don't bother, so nothing happens...
akirk said:
wake up to the real world - for generations there have been a few lucky enough to be born into wealth, everyone else has had to work to earn a living / earn a house / earn food etc. - the current 'young' generation is far better off than any before it. The average teenager owns 6 digital devices and leaves home wearing clothes and carrying devices on average worth up to £1,000 - a far cry from previous generations - today's teenager is more likely to expect new clothes / bikes / toys / phone / etc. - a generation ago, clothes were more likely to be handed down / passed to other families, bikes circulated amongst families and a few toys were all that would be in the house... Even when hitting adulthood there are now more opportunities than ever before for a variety of jobs and the ability to work worldwide, the opportunity to make money has never been so good... There has been a generation growing up where they expect their parents to both work in order to enjoy more consumables - and it seems that the same generation has now moved into their 20s and 30s somehow expecting to be bought houses as well...
get a reality check and start looking to change things, as I said above, I agree that the housing market is out of balance - but take responsibility for it, it is where it is, grouching about it will not suddenly put it back - so if there is a solution, be a part of that solution instead of expecting others to do it for you - if you are young then you have more to gain from changing the country to a better place, why should others do it for you?
The real world is, that 50 years ago you may not have had an iPhone, but could get yourself on the housing market with your young family in your 20's. Now you can't, not close. All that rent poured in goes to supporting the generation that's calling todays young people lazy freeloaders. People now are working harder than ever for real world reward less than ever. It's the entitlement and greed of the baby boomers that's the problem. People now in their 50's and 60's have become so self entitled that they've sold their children's futures and are blaming the kids for it.get a reality check and start looking to change things, as I said above, I agree that the housing market is out of balance - but take responsibility for it, it is where it is, grouching about it will not suddenly put it back - so if there is a solution, be a part of that solution instead of expecting others to do it for you - if you are young then you have more to gain from changing the country to a better place, why should others do it for you?
Access to technology is not the measure of wealth, stop blaming someone else for the failure of your own generation.
RB5_245 said:
akirk said:
wake up to the real world - for generations there have been a few lucky enough to be born into wealth, everyone else has had to work to earn a living / earn a house / earn food etc. - the current 'young' generation is far better off than any before it. The average teenager owns 6 digital devices and leaves home wearing clothes and carrying devices on average worth up to £1,000 - a far cry from previous generations - today's teenager is more likely to expect new clothes / bikes / toys / phone / etc. - a generation ago, clothes were more likely to be handed down / passed to other families, bikes circulated amongst families and a few toys were all that would be in the house... Even when hitting adulthood there are now more opportunities than ever before for a variety of jobs and the ability to work worldwide, the opportunity to make money has never been so good... There has been a generation growing up where they expect their parents to both work in order to enjoy more consumables - and it seems that the same generation has now moved into their 20s and 30s somehow expecting to be bought houses as well...
get a reality check and start looking to change things, as I said above, I agree that the housing market is out of balance - but take responsibility for it, it is where it is, grouching about it will not suddenly put it back - so if there is a solution, be a part of that solution instead of expecting others to do it for you - if you are young then you have more to gain from changing the country to a better place, why should others do it for you?
The real world is, that 50 years ago you may not have had an iPhone, but could get yourself on the housing market with your young family in your 20's. Now you can't, not close. All that rent poured in goes to supporting the generation that's calling todays young people lazy freeloaders. People now are working harder than ever for real world reward less than ever. It's the entitlement and greed of the baby boomers that's the problem. People now in their 50's and 60's have become so self entitled that they've sold their children's futures and are blaming the kids for it.get a reality check and start looking to change things, as I said above, I agree that the housing market is out of balance - but take responsibility for it, it is where it is, grouching about it will not suddenly put it back - so if there is a solution, be a part of that solution instead of expecting others to do it for you - if you are young then you have more to gain from changing the country to a better place, why should others do it for you?
Access to technology is not the measure of wealth, stop blaming someone else for the failure of your own generation.
I left school with crap grades but i already had a job offer on the post , we did a bit of overtime and earn't £3000 and that was our house deposit , solicitors fee's , our 1st house cost 30k so a postie and nurse could easily afford to buy a house.
Nowadays even getting on the post is hard , house prices are so high young people have to settle for a life of renting as the deposits are too high.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I appreciate your comments but I find this quite strange for a few reasons: 1) Yes I run a property buying agency - the purpose of said consultancy is to help individuals find good value homes (on or off market) for less than market conditions based on our experience, relationships within the market, extensive local knowledge and finally negotiating ability... i.e. we purchase homes for busy individuals for as little as possible, rather than estate agents (I used to be one) who drive the market, along with the public's greed it must be said.
2) Should I consider the same "young" generation who waste their money on cigarettes, booze, drugs etc etc rather than being sensible? Perhaps this same youngsters who sit on their butts on the dole etc wasting tax payer's money on disrespectful use of the valuable NHS etc etc?
You see where my thoughts are going with this and I do not want to take this off topic away from Financing but Im am by no means one of these 20+homes landlords whom I think you may be mentally targeting?
I genuinely welcome your thoughts...
akirk said:
With the attitudes shown, perhaps so - but you won't find it better anywhere else...
It is a sad reflection on some parts of our society that they feel:
- they are owed a living
- owed a property
- it is someone else's responsibility to sort it out (usually the politicians / someone who has made money through hard work / their parents...)
- it is better everywhere else in the world
wake up to the real world - for generations there have been a few lucky enough to be born into wealth, everyone else has had to work to earn a living / earn a house / earn food etc. - the current 'young' generation is far better off than any before it. The average teenager owns 6 digital devices and leaves home wearing clothes and carrying devices on average worth up to £1,000 - a far cry from previous generations - today's teenager is more likely to expect new clothes / bikes / toys / phone / etc. - a generation ago, clothes were more likely to be handed down / passed to other families, bikes circulated amongst families and a few toys were all that would be in the house... Even when hitting adulthood there are now more opportunities than ever before for a variety of jobs and the ability to work worldwide, the opportunity to make money has never been so good... There has been a generation growing up where they expect their parents to both work in order to enjoy more consumables - and it seems that the same generation has now moved into their 20s and 30s somehow expecting to be bought houses as well...
Amen. Christ on a bike!It is a sad reflection on some parts of our society that they feel:
- they are owed a living
- owed a property
- it is someone else's responsibility to sort it out (usually the politicians / someone who has made money through hard work / their parents...)
- it is better everywhere else in the world
wake up to the real world - for generations there have been a few lucky enough to be born into wealth, everyone else has had to work to earn a living / earn a house / earn food etc. - the current 'young' generation is far better off than any before it. The average teenager owns 6 digital devices and leaves home wearing clothes and carrying devices on average worth up to £1,000 - a far cry from previous generations - today's teenager is more likely to expect new clothes / bikes / toys / phone / etc. - a generation ago, clothes were more likely to be handed down / passed to other families, bikes circulated amongst families and a few toys were all that would be in the house... Even when hitting adulthood there are now more opportunities than ever before for a variety of jobs and the ability to work worldwide, the opportunity to make money has never been so good... There has been a generation growing up where they expect their parents to both work in order to enjoy more consumables - and it seems that the same generation has now moved into their 20s and 30s somehow expecting to be bought houses as well...
I wonder how many of those who moan that they "can't afford to get on the ladder" own lovely new mobile phones/iPads, drive flashy cars, rent privately and take foreign holidays. While the price of their parents' houses were undoubtedly lower in relative terms, their lifestyles sacrificed significantly more to buy them. To piss and moan while living the (relative) life of Riley is embarrassing.
It's frankly cringeworthy how ridiculously entitled and dependent my generation (born in the 80s) has become, and how we'd rather blame anything but our own behaviour for our failings. Suggesting that it should be "the politicians'" responsibility to resolve things is both naive and immature, in extremis.
Edited by C70R on Sunday 11th September 22:06
I don't doubt that.
But were you driving a new car, taking multiple foreign holidays a year, renting your own house and buying the latest gadgets at the time? Did you (or your peers) buy properties alone?
I'd assume not...
If you ignore the London/SE effect, the average household income should be enough to get most people "on the ladder".
But were you driving a new car, taking multiple foreign holidays a year, renting your own house and buying the latest gadgets at the time? Did you (or your peers) buy properties alone?
I'd assume not...
If you ignore the London/SE effect, the average household income should be enough to get most people "on the ladder".
C70R said:
I don't doubt that.
But were you driving a new car, taking multiple foreign holidays a year, renting your own house and buying the latest gadgets at the time? I'd assume not...
We were snowboarding for 2 weeks in the winter and somewhere sunny for 2 weeks in the summer.But were you driving a new car, taking multiple foreign holidays a year, renting your own house and buying the latest gadgets at the time? I'd assume not...
Didn't have a new car but that wasn't important to me , gadgets wise we had a pc and a playstation , video player
.Renting wise why would we rent we had our own house , nowadays where do you think young people are going to live if they can't get the deposit together other than rent.
Not everyone can live with there parents as they work away so renting is the only option.
egor110 said:
C70R said:
I don't doubt that.
But were you driving a new car, taking multiple foreign holidays a year, renting your own house and buying the latest gadgets at the time? I'd assume not...
We were snowboarding for 2 weeks in the winter and somewhere sunny for 2 weeks in the summer.But were you driving a new car, taking multiple foreign holidays a year, renting your own house and buying the latest gadgets at the time? I'd assume not...
Didn't have a new car but that wasn't important to me , gadgets wise we had a pc and a playstation , video player
.Renting wise why would we rent we had our own house , nowadays where do you think young people are going to live if they can't get the deposit together other than rent.
Not everyone can live with there parents as they work away so renting is the only option.
Our current housing economy is driven by 20s (and, to a lesser extent, 30s) renters - people who would have been living at home in my parents' generation.
If this demand didn't exist, then we would have anything like the "BTL economy" that so many complain about. My generation is not one that is prepared to make sacrifices (car buying included), and they reap exactly what they sow.
C70R said:
egor110 said:
C70R said:
I don't doubt that.
But were you driving a new car, taking multiple foreign holidays a year, renting your own house and buying the latest gadgets at the time? I'd assume not...
We were snowboarding for 2 weeks in the winter and somewhere sunny for 2 weeks in the summer.But were you driving a new car, taking multiple foreign holidays a year, renting your own house and buying the latest gadgets at the time? I'd assume not...
Didn't have a new car but that wasn't important to me , gadgets wise we had a pc and a playstation , video player
.Renting wise why would we rent we had our own house , nowadays where do you think young people are going to live if they can't get the deposit together other than rent.
Not everyone can live with there parents as they work away so renting is the only option.
Our current housing economy is driven by 20s (and, to a lesser extent, 30s) renters - people who would have been living at home in my parents' generation.
If this demand didn't exist, then we would have anything like the "BTL economy" that so many complain about. My generation is not one that is prepared to make sacrifices (car buying included), and they reap exactly what they sow.
Nowadays you go to college , go to uni ( how many of your parents generation went to uni ? a fraction compared to now) then you have to move away to get work.
As i said for someone born in 70's you could have no qualifications but as long as you were prepared to work you could live a pretty decent lifestyle including owning your own home.
egor110 said:
C70R said:
egor110 said:
C70R said:
I don't doubt that.
But were you driving a new car, taking multiple foreign holidays a year, renting your own house and buying the latest gadgets at the time? I'd assume not...
We were snowboarding for 2 weeks in the winter and somewhere sunny for 2 weeks in the summer.But were you driving a new car, taking multiple foreign holidays a year, renting your own house and buying the latest gadgets at the time? I'd assume not...
Didn't have a new car but that wasn't important to me , gadgets wise we had a pc and a playstation , video player
.Renting wise why would we rent we had our own house , nowadays where do you think young people are going to live if they can't get the deposit together other than rent.
Not everyone can live with there parents as they work away so renting is the only option.
Our current housing economy is driven by 20s (and, to a lesser extent, 30s) renters - people who would have been living at home in my parents' generation.
If this demand didn't exist, then we would have anything like the "BTL economy" that so many complain about. My generation is not one that is prepared to make sacrifices (car buying included), and they reap exactly what they sow.
Nowadays you go to college , go to uni ( how many of your parents generation went to uni ? a fraction compared to now) then you have to move away to get work.
As i said for someone born in 70's you could have no qualifications but as long as you were prepared to work you could live a pretty decent lifestyle including owning your own home.
In fact, only half of young people were going to University, at most - what about the other half?
It has become the social norm for young people to "move out" from their family home as soon as possible. While I applaud that, it's hard to reconcile this need for immediate independence with the need for long-term property ownership prospects. It's simply not realistic.
C70R said:
egor110 said:
C70R said:
egor110 said:
C70R said:
I don't doubt that.
But were you driving a new car, taking multiple foreign holidays a year, renting your own house and buying the latest gadgets at the time? I'd assume not...
We were snowboarding for 2 weeks in the winter and somewhere sunny for 2 weeks in the summer.But were you driving a new car, taking multiple foreign holidays a year, renting your own house and buying the latest gadgets at the time? I'd assume not...
Didn't have a new car but that wasn't important to me , gadgets wise we had a pc and a playstation , video player
.Renting wise why would we rent we had our own house , nowadays where do you think young people are going to live if they can't get the deposit together other than rent.
Not everyone can live with there parents as they work away so renting is the only option.
Our current housing economy is driven by 20s (and, to a lesser extent, 30s) renters - people who would have been living at home in my parents' generation.
If this demand didn't exist, then we would have anything like the "BTL economy" that so many complain about. My generation is not one that is prepared to make sacrifices (car buying included), and they reap exactly what they sow.
Nowadays you go to college , go to uni ( how many of your parents generation went to uni ? a fraction compared to now) then you have to move away to get work.
As i said for someone born in 70's you could have no qualifications but as long as you were prepared to work you could live a pretty decent lifestyle including owning your own home.
In fact, only half of young people were going to University, at most - what about the other half?
It has become the social norm for young people to "move out" from their family home as soon as possible. While I applaud that, it's hard to reconcile this need for immediate independence with the need for long-term property ownership prospects. It's simply not realistic.
If what you say is right then the children's cars wouldn't be there anymore as they'd of followed your trend of moving out as soon as possible.
The fact is you just have to look at what a house costs and then look at the average wage and they don't tally.
Either house costs have to come down so a average joe can afford one or the mortgage is no longer a 25 year debt it becomes a 50 year debt reducing the monthly payments.
I do agree that some young people think once they have a degree they have it made but the flipside my generation born in the 70's are probably the last generation that will have paid off there mortgages and have final salary pensions.
egor110 said:
C70R said:
egor110 said:
C70R said:
egor110 said:
C70R said:
I don't doubt that.
But were you driving a new car, taking multiple foreign holidays a year, renting your own house and buying the latest gadgets at the time? I'd assume not...
We were snowboarding for 2 weeks in the winter and somewhere sunny for 2 weeks in the summer.But were you driving a new car, taking multiple foreign holidays a year, renting your own house and buying the latest gadgets at the time? I'd assume not...
Didn't have a new car but that wasn't important to me , gadgets wise we had a pc and a playstation , video player
.Renting wise why would we rent we had our own house , nowadays where do you think young people are going to live if they can't get the deposit together other than rent.
Not everyone can live with there parents as they work away so renting is the only option.
Our current housing economy is driven by 20s (and, to a lesser extent, 30s) renters - people who would have been living at home in my parents' generation.
If this demand didn't exist, then we would have anything like the "BTL economy" that so many complain about. My generation is not one that is prepared to make sacrifices (car buying included), and they reap exactly what they sow.
Nowadays you go to college , go to uni ( how many of your parents generation went to uni ? a fraction compared to now) then you have to move away to get work.
As i said for someone born in 70's you could have no qualifications but as long as you were prepared to work you could live a pretty decent lifestyle including owning your own home.
In fact, only half of young people were going to University, at most - what about the other half?
It has become the social norm for young people to "move out" from their family home as soon as possible. While I applaud that, it's hard to reconcile this need for immediate independence with the need for long-term property ownership prospects. It's simply not realistic.
If what you say is right then the children's cars wouldn't be there anymore as they'd of followed your trend of moving out as soon as possible.
The fact is you just have to look at what a house costs and then look at the average wage and they don't tally.
Either house costs have to come down so a average joe can afford one or the mortgage is no longer a 25 year debt it becomes a 50 year debt reducing the monthly payments.
I do agree that some young people think once they have a degree they have it made but the flipside my generation born in the 70's are probably the last generation that will have paid off there mortgages and have final salary pensions.
I don't agree that house prices "have to come down" at all - that's defeatist, socialist waffle. The Average Joe has different priorities to that of the previous generation, and it's showing in how they prioritise buying and saving for a house. There are many examples of people who have decided that this is their focus, and they have achieved it with only a little sacrifice.
As an example of what I mean, my parents were born in the 1950s. They lived with my grandparents for 3 years after they were married (after both going away to college/university), and bought a £50 Fiat 500 so that they could save every penny to buy a home in a less-than-desirable part of town.
Tell me, when was the last time you heard of someone in their 20s/30s doing that?
The answer is that they don't - instead, they move out asap, furnish a rented new-build full of Ikea tat on credit card, buy a new car(s) on finance/loan and spend their summers sending iPad selfies from a ghastly all-inc resort.
There's nothing wrong with that in itself. But it's ridiculous that these same people complain about how hard it is to save and get "on the ladder".
Edited by C70R on Sunday 11th September 23:50
C70R said:
I agree with some of what you say, but the parking/driveway thing is almost irrelevant. We've got more cars on the road (outright and per capita) than we've ever had before. What does that have to do with where people live? It's got more to do with the greater accessibility and incentivisation to buy new cars than anything else.
I don't agree that house prices "have to come down" at all - that's defeatist, socialist waffle. The Average Joe has different priorities to that of the previous generation, and it's showing in how they prioritise buying and saving for a house. There are many examples of people who have decided that this is their focus, and they have achieved it with only a little sacrifice.
As an example of what I mean, my parents were born in the 1950s. They lived with my grandparents for 3 years after they were married (after both going away to college/university), and bought a £50 Fiat 500 so that they could save every penny to buy a home in a less-than-desirable part of town.
Tell me, when was the last time you heard of someone in their 20s/30s doing that?
The answer is that they don't - instead, they move out asap, furnish a rented new-build full of Ikea tat on credit card, buy a new car(s) on finance/loan and spend their summers sending iPad selfies from a ghastly all-inc resort.
There's nothing wrong with that in itself. But it's ridiculous that these same people complain about how hard it is to save and get "on the ladder".
Some people still do that. Young Indian newly weds often live at the boy's parents house initially. Sometimes for a long time or most of their adult lives. I have a family member that does that. His thinking is it is his duty as the only boy out of the kids to help his parents out for all they have done for him in his childhood. Sounds like a chore???...hardly not. They help with babysitting, he gets quality time with his whole immoderate family and has £1,000's in disposable income to travel the world etc. I don't agree that house prices "have to come down" at all - that's defeatist, socialist waffle. The Average Joe has different priorities to that of the previous generation, and it's showing in how they prioritise buying and saving for a house. There are many examples of people who have decided that this is their focus, and they have achieved it with only a little sacrifice.
As an example of what I mean, my parents were born in the 1950s. They lived with my grandparents for 3 years after they were married (after both going away to college/university), and bought a £50 Fiat 500 so that they could save every penny to buy a home in a less-than-desirable part of town.
Tell me, when was the last time you heard of someone in their 20s/30s doing that?
The answer is that they don't - instead, they move out asap, furnish a rented new-build full of Ikea tat on credit card, buy a new car(s) on finance/loan and spend their summers sending iPad selfies from a ghastly all-inc resort.
There's nothing wrong with that in itself. But it's ridiculous that these same people complain about how hard it is to save and get "on the ladder".
Edited by C70R on Sunday 11th September 23:50
You're being too literal. I meant that it's now not seen as the norm in the way that it was 30-odd years ago.
Where do these people complaining about the "BTL economy" think the demand for rental properties has come from? I'll bet a quid that they themselves are partially contributing.
Where do these people complaining about the "BTL economy" think the demand for rental properties has come from? I'll bet a quid that they themselves are partially contributing.
xmyph - Your reply stinks of envy and spite, almost to the extent of suggesting that the previous poster has somehow not worked for what he's achieved. Or that his achievement diminishes his right to have an opinion about this.
Just answer me the one question that seems to evade the moaners' logic - what is driving (and supporting) all of these people to buy BTL properties?
Because, if the demand wasn't there (through vast numbers of people deciding to rent rather than save and buy), then the "evil property magnates" wouldn't be investing their money, and house prices would be lower.
Unless, of course, you believe that the "evil property magnates" all went around buying up property to rent out in anticipation of a spike in the market...
Just answer me the one question that seems to evade the moaners' logic - what is driving (and supporting) all of these people to buy BTL properties?
Because, if the demand wasn't there (through vast numbers of people deciding to rent rather than save and buy), then the "evil property magnates" wouldn't be investing their money, and house prices would be lower.
Unless, of course, you believe that the "evil property magnates" all went around buying up property to rent out in anticipation of a spike in the market...
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