For the love of Tuscan (project build)
Discussion
Modrich said:
For the start/stop button kit I'm fitting, if you don't have your foot on the clutch it won't start or stop for that matter...
Great topic with much detailHave you already purchased a stop start kit?
If you have bought a kit are you able to link to it here?
How long will it be in the future when you wire the stop start kit?
Thank you in advance
Hi Polly, it's fitted bar the clutch switch connection as I haven't re-fitted the pedal box yet.
This is the kit I bought
Don't be scared by the price it's simply a circuit board with relays and a logic circuit, tech like this is amazingly cheap these days and Chinese manufacturing is generally of a very high standard. I have bench tested it for functionality purposes and it works perfectly.
Start/stop button works like this:
Foot NOT on clutch pedal: 1st press>ACC on (Switch LED flashes), 2nd press>Ignition on (Switch LED flashes), 3rd press>all off.
Foot ON clutch pedal: 1st press>engine starts (Switch LED illuminates) ACC & Ignition 1 powered on.
Engine will only stop by pressing the start/stop button with the clutch pedal depressed.
My Tuscan's ignition key switch has 0/I/II/ENGINE START positions but position 1 isn't used so to get the accessories such as the radio to turn on position II is required. I presume my Tuscan is not alone from the searches I've done. The wiring can in theory be changed to provide an accessory/position 1 as there is a spare pin (middle of pic) for this but I haven't modified this as the terminals are fixed and cannot be removed as far as I can see. I'm going to use the start/stop kit to provide a new accessory circuit for the radio and any other tech I'm going to install.
So the wiring is really straight forward. The kit has 2 looms, one for high current input/output and one for the sensors/switches to enable functionality but you only really need one switch to enable the engine to start. The instructions suggest a brake pedal switch which the Tuscan already has, but the kit requires a 12v output from this switch and the brake pedal switch is a switched earth so you would need to use a relay. My preference as this is a manual gearbox is to use a retrofit clutch switch (12v output) for obvious safety reasons (left).
All the other wiring is done locally to the ignition barrel switch. The red wire is the fused permanent 12v feed to the ignition switch, white/yellow is position II/ACC, white is position II and white/red is engine starter.
Wiring as installed:
(Start stop main loom>Tuscan wiring)
Red>red (12v feed)
Black>earth screw on steering column
White>white
Yellow>white/red
Brown, not used, similar to white wire.
(Sensors/switches loom>Tuscan wiring)
Blue>clutch switch
The start/stop box can be mounted on the back of the vertical part of the shelf with a Velcro pad, here shown just hanging down...
And the main loom wires feed through with all the dash wires...
]
Then the start/stop red wire is soldered to the ignition switch red, white from the start/stop loom (position II) to white which also switches the cars white/yellow circuit on, and the yellow wire to the cars white/red starter circuit. I used amalgamating tape to seal the soldered joint then insulation tape on top to stop them all amalgamating together into one lump.
The blue ACC/position 'I' wire from the start/stop loom is not connected yet as this is for the new ACC fused circuit.
The start/stop switch that came with the kit is meant to fit over the original barrel key position but I don't think it would fit in this case and I want to keep the key functionality for the steering lock (until I work out how to use a solenoid to replace the key) and until I'm happy with the reliability of the kit. Anyway, I wanted to use a start/stop switch more suited to the Tuscans switchgear so have replaced it with a 22mm alloy switch with purple illumination {other colours available
) which I will mount on the centre console...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004180245956.h...
Switch wiring to new switch
Sitting loose ATM.
This is the kit I bought
Don't be scared by the price it's simply a circuit board with relays and a logic circuit, tech like this is amazingly cheap these days and Chinese manufacturing is generally of a very high standard. I have bench tested it for functionality purposes and it works perfectly.
Start/stop button works like this:
Foot NOT on clutch pedal: 1st press>ACC on (Switch LED flashes), 2nd press>Ignition on (Switch LED flashes), 3rd press>all off.
Foot ON clutch pedal: 1st press>engine starts (Switch LED illuminates) ACC & Ignition 1 powered on.
Engine will only stop by pressing the start/stop button with the clutch pedal depressed.
My Tuscan's ignition key switch has 0/I/II/ENGINE START positions but position 1 isn't used so to get the accessories such as the radio to turn on position II is required. I presume my Tuscan is not alone from the searches I've done. The wiring can in theory be changed to provide an accessory/position 1 as there is a spare pin (middle of pic) for this but I haven't modified this as the terminals are fixed and cannot be removed as far as I can see. I'm going to use the start/stop kit to provide a new accessory circuit for the radio and any other tech I'm going to install.
So the wiring is really straight forward. The kit has 2 looms, one for high current input/output and one for the sensors/switches to enable functionality but you only really need one switch to enable the engine to start. The instructions suggest a brake pedal switch which the Tuscan already has, but the kit requires a 12v output from this switch and the brake pedal switch is a switched earth so you would need to use a relay. My preference as this is a manual gearbox is to use a retrofit clutch switch (12v output) for obvious safety reasons (left).
All the other wiring is done locally to the ignition barrel switch. The red wire is the fused permanent 12v feed to the ignition switch, white/yellow is position II/ACC, white is position II and white/red is engine starter.
Wiring as installed:
(Start stop main loom>Tuscan wiring)
Red>red (12v feed)
Black>earth screw on steering column
White>white
Yellow>white/red
Brown, not used, similar to white wire.
(Sensors/switches loom>Tuscan wiring)
Blue>clutch switch
The start/stop box can be mounted on the back of the vertical part of the shelf with a Velcro pad, here shown just hanging down...
And the main loom wires feed through with all the dash wires...
Then the start/stop red wire is soldered to the ignition switch red, white from the start/stop loom (position II) to white which also switches the cars white/yellow circuit on, and the yellow wire to the cars white/red starter circuit. I used amalgamating tape to seal the soldered joint then insulation tape on top to stop them all amalgamating together into one lump.
The blue ACC/position 'I' wire from the start/stop loom is not connected yet as this is for the new ACC fused circuit.
The start/stop switch that came with the kit is meant to fit over the original barrel key position but I don't think it would fit in this case and I want to keep the key functionality for the steering lock (until I work out how to use a solenoid to replace the key) and until I'm happy with the reliability of the kit. Anyway, I wanted to use a start/stop switch more suited to the Tuscans switchgear so have replaced it with a 22mm alloy switch with purple illumination {other colours available
) which I will mount on the centre console...https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004180245956.h...
Switch wiring to new switch
Sitting loose ATM.
Edited by Modrich on Sunday 31st March 20:46
Hm. What us the reason for this installation? 
First I thought you mean with start/stop that your engine stops at traffic lights and re-starts if clutch is operated to save fuel like a modern car does? But it is‘nt?
Do you want to push a button to start and stop the engine?
Am I right that you still need to turn the key as well?
First I thought you mean with start/stop that your engine stops at traffic lights and re-starts if clutch is operated to save fuel like a modern car does? But it is‘nt?
Do you want to push a button to start and stop the engine?
Am I right that you still need to turn the key as well?
Hello Modrich
Thank you very much for the reply and your in-depth postings and explanations of the operation and installation, I thoroughly enjoyed reading through all of it
When first reading that you were going to fit a push-button start system it felt like I had hit the jackpot as long as your work on the system hadn't already started. No worries, am obviously too late now
In the future, you would have been an ideal person to install a cost free system and clock some hours on it
Have on and off for more than a year been working at perfecting (in my opinion of course) a system that uses relay logic, the jobs now completed and am ready to get the PCB's built once a prototype proves all is good
The difference between what I've built and the kit you've installed is that nothing within the box draws current when off and no current once the engine is running, the main ignition and starter relay fit outside of the box plus an AUX relay outside of the box should anybody want AUX (obviously AUX and ignition relays outside of the box draw current)
Failure of any relay coil within the box (if that should ever happen) won't kill the ignition, the engine won't cut out
Operation is also different to your kit, press and release gives AUX, another press and release gives ignition, another press gives start, once the engine is running another press of the button switches everything off
Have also included a circuit to allow for going back to off from AUX or ignition rather than having to start the engine to be able to switch off
Anyway, I've missed the boat and it does hurt a little but such is life
Thank you once again for such an amazing reply and explanation with great images
Enjoy your car when its finished
Happy starting and stopping
Thank you very much for the reply and your in-depth postings and explanations of the operation and installation, I thoroughly enjoyed reading through all of it
When first reading that you were going to fit a push-button start system it felt like I had hit the jackpot as long as your work on the system hadn't already started. No worries, am obviously too late now
In the future, you would have been an ideal person to install a cost free system and clock some hours on it
Have on and off for more than a year been working at perfecting (in my opinion of course) a system that uses relay logic, the jobs now completed and am ready to get the PCB's built once a prototype proves all is good
The difference between what I've built and the kit you've installed is that nothing within the box draws current when off and no current once the engine is running, the main ignition and starter relay fit outside of the box plus an AUX relay outside of the box should anybody want AUX (obviously AUX and ignition relays outside of the box draw current)
Failure of any relay coil within the box (if that should ever happen) won't kill the ignition, the engine won't cut out
Operation is also different to your kit, press and release gives AUX, another press and release gives ignition, another press gives start, once the engine is running another press of the button switches everything off
Have also included a circuit to allow for going back to off from AUX or ignition rather than having to start the engine to be able to switch off
Anyway, I've missed the boat and it does hurt a little but such is life
Thank you once again for such an amazing reply and explanation with great images
Enjoy your car when its finished
Happy starting and stopping
All is not lost Polly I would be more than happy to help with testing if you don't find another suitable candidate, connecting a different module wouldn't be too difficult and it sounds like a good piece of kit you have there. Although you won't get much testing out of my Tuscan until the spring I would think...
One selling point would be a way of doing away with the ignition barrel completely and having a failsafe bolt-on steering lock solenoid. It looks doable on the Vectra B steering column
Thanks for your positive comments
One selling point would be a way of doing away with the ignition barrel completely and having a failsafe bolt-on steering lock solenoid. It looks doable on the Vectra B steering column
Thanks for your positive comments
Modrich said:
All is not lost Polly I would be more than happy to help with testing if you don't find another suitable candidate, connecting a different module wouldn't be too difficult and it sounds like a good piece of kit you have there. Although you won't get much testing out of my Tuscan until the spring I would think...
One selling point would be a way of doing away with the ignition barrel completely and having a failsafe bolt-on steering lock solenoid. It looks doable on the Vectra B steering column
Thanks for your positive comments
Very interesting, I did read about your thoughts for future work with a solenoid to lock the steering column, two things that crossed my mind at the time were that whatever component is used to lock the steering it would have to fail in the unlocked position if it was to fail and also would need to be of the constant current typeOne selling point would be a way of doing away with the ignition barrel completely and having a failsafe bolt-on steering lock solenoid. It looks doable on the Vectra B steering column
Thanks for your positive comments
Have very little free time to look at options for the above but will certainly be popping back here now and again to read through any updates you post, looking forward to what options you come up with for locking the column without a key operated system
Will keep you in mind for possible future testing of a system, everything is on hold at present
Thank you for the offer
to you too, not too many thoughGood evening Modrich, having read through your above detailed post once again something crossed my mind that you have very likely already taken into consideration and sorted or I've misunderstood the operation, best ask anyway
Modrich said:
Foot ON clutch pedal: 1st press>engine starts (Switch LED illuminates) ACC & Ignition 1 powered on.
Does the above operation have a built in delay before cranking the engine over to allow for fuel pump priming?plasticman said:
Sorry I have not been keeping up with this thread but have you got the pedal box secured by 4 M6 bolts into rivnuts ?
Could you spin them the other way so bolts pointing outwards with decent washers on, locked with nuts on the pedal box itself, then through the slotted brackets and clamped with self locking nuts? If there's enough force on it to bend the smaller rocker shaft, as is common, I'd want mine a bit more secure.Sounds doable BB thanks for the suggestion. I must admit spinning the rivnut 180deg so the thread is inside the pedal box is preferable but the way I've done it is a simple way to provide a spacer between the pedal box and runner. I could even keep as is but use a longer bolt with a locknut on the inside of the pedal box...and bigger washers as suggested
Polly Grigora said:
Does the above operation have a built in delay before cranking the engine over to allow for fuel pump priming?
Hi Polly, I took a video of the sequence and to illustrate it I used LED strips for each stage. Hopefully the video link works...
The first half of the video is without the clutch pedal depressed, or the blue wire not connected to 12v.
Then I show the blue wire connected or the foot depressed on the clutch and the starter sequence engages showing the 3rd light illuminate, I would say 2secs from pressing the start button to starter motor spinning...
Then I show the optional cold start, you can press and hold the button and it gives you a pre-set extra long go at the starter motor.
looks ok to me, what do you think?
Modrich said:
Polly Grigora said:
Does the above operation have a built in delay before cranking the engine over to allow for fuel pump priming?
Then I show the blue wire connected or the foot depressed on the clutch and the starter sequence engages showing the 3rd light illuminate, I would say 2secs from pressing the start button to starter motor spinning...
what do you think?
Don't know the exact time of your Tuscan fuel pump priming circuit but would expect it to be approximately 2 seconds
There could be a starting problem with the fuel pump priming being too short
Anyway, you could be lucky and get away with it
Simply thought it worth mentioning something I had spotted
Good video by the way
Have a good day
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