BSB 2024 Grids
Discussion
graeme4130 said:
slopes said:
I think the official team is FHO in the UK, Haslam might have a deal with BMW but he isn't the official team
You’re right, FHO are the ‘official’ BMW team for BSB But, Leon’s ride is basically an extension of SMR’s WSBK team, so has access to all the same stuff (albeit with a significantly smaller budget than FHO) and his bikes are built by SMR, so that’s a solid route into Motorad
Also, Leon effectively becomes the stand in rider should either Toprak or VDM get injured (but that role would most likely first be filled by either Silvain Guintoli or Bradley smith
Leon had an issue with engines last season, and that basically prevented him from going for the title (and he’d have been close where it not for various mechanicals), but I understand the ins and outs of that, and I believe it’s been rectified hopefully for 2024
I’d still very much expect him to be top BMW this year and right at the sharp end
I’m willing to bet that as long as Hickman is winning at the TT and especially after winning Fay Ho’s hone race, he won’t be giving up BMW anytime soon as it seems to be THE bike for the roads.
Will FHO dump him to use a different bike?
Or will Brookes jump ship if things dont go his way?
Will FHO dump him to use a different bike?
Or will Brookes jump ship if things dont go his way?
graeme4130 said:
flatlandsman said:
I doubt that, the main reason for that relationship is Hicky and what he does at the TT and that relationship with BMW seems sound.
They also do a lot of stuff around females in bike racing and while not yet getting results that is a vital aspect of the team too.
BMW have done a lot of work this past few months and that will trickle down, signing the best Superbike racer i the world tends to do that.
You do not break a relationship down like that after setting records at the TT, (arguably a far bigger and more important race than any BSB season), just because the bike is not that quick on UK circuits in the hands of your star man. And make no bones about it, Hicky is the star man in that team
I suspect you're not quite right there. Fay Ho wants the very best, and can afford the very best, so will move bikes if she thinks there's a better package out there. Being the official team means nothing if you don't think the bike you're on can win in BSBThey also do a lot of stuff around females in bike racing and while not yet getting results that is a vital aspect of the team too.
BMW have done a lot of work this past few months and that will trickle down, signing the best Superbike racer i the world tends to do that.
You do not break a relationship down like that after setting records at the TT, (arguably a far bigger and more important race than any BSB season), just because the bike is not that quick on UK circuits in the hands of your star man. And make no bones about it, Hicky is the star man in that team
Hicky can still ride a BMW for the roads, and it can still be FHO supported, but not FHO branded (just like his Triumph Roads SS bike)
No doubt they would want some form of factory support so Yamaha is more or less out, Honda is defo out.
No Suzuki presence in racing full stop, so that leaves Kawasaki or Ducati. On the mainland, fine but on the roads the Kawasaki is lacking as Harrison has shown.
Could be a very interesting season indeed with potentially far reaching implications.
But agreed what someone said earlier, if Haslam gets his engines sorted - and he only got them at short notice or so the story goes - then he could well make FHO look silly
LF5335 said:
Does a team have to run the same bikes in BSB and Roads? FHO are hugely wealthy they could quite easily run the best bikes for short circuit and a separate manufacturer for the roads from a financial angle.
They don't, but most do.See James Hillier for example, rode Kawasaki's on the mainland becuase he rode for Bournemouth Kawasaki on the roads, now does the same for OMG on Yamaha's. Hickman is the same, ever since he started riding for what was then Smiths, he's ridden BMW's except in the smaller classes on the roads for obvious reasons.
I suppose the thing is, if you represent one manufacturer, they want loyalty of the brand and so it doesn't make a lot of sense to ride something totally different in other areas.
Of course if Hickman started his own team for the roads - yes i know he runs the Triumphs under his own banner - then in theory he could ride what he likes
graeme4130 said:
flatlandsman said:
Hickman would not want to use a Duke on the roads I would imagine, he has more say I think in that team than people realise. And I suspect if they did this he would leave and form his own team around BMW I guess.
I was not really comparing SBK and BSB bikes they are both subtly different, what was interesting last year was that BMW had poor years in BSB AND SBK really, I think mainly as Redding could not setup a paddock stand, but Pete was also very poor in BSB, and he would have been using the latest bike, was Haslam not using a 22 bike? Or 223 bike and 22 engines. So maybe more sorted? Easier to ride.
Not taking anything away from him, he rode superbly, but they do get it wrong at times with new bikes!!
Interestingly it seemed to me Gerloff was getting the most out of it in SBK towards year end.
The team could easily run Hicky on a BMW for the roads, funded by FHO, but under his own PHR team, or like the Triumph he runs in separate livery I was not really comparing SBK and BSB bikes they are both subtly different, what was interesting last year was that BMW had poor years in BSB AND SBK really, I think mainly as Redding could not setup a paddock stand, but Pete was also very poor in BSB, and he would have been using the latest bike, was Haslam not using a 22 bike? Or 223 bike and 22 engines. So maybe more sorted? Easier to ride.
Not taking anything away from him, he rode superbly, but they do get it wrong at times with new bikes!!
Interestingly it seemed to me Gerloff was getting the most out of it in SBK towards year end.
You're right though, I'm not sure he'd want to ride a Ducati on the track, but also isn't stupid and knows that he's onto a really good thing with FHO's cash, and it's easy enough to switch between bikes from short circuits to roads.
Leon was on a 23 bike, but had old shape fairings as SMR had a load of them and they were very cheap (new carbon fairings are circa £12k a set, and you can easily go through 10-15 sets in a season, so using old shape ones when you're running your own team on your own budget is a no brainer )
FHO had a shocker last year and Brookes must have wondered what he had done by signing with them, there or thereabouts prior to the TT then afterwards it waslike they just went backwards or everyone else made a big leap forwards and they didn't.
graeme4130 said:
Zarco said:
graeme4130 said:
Zarco said:
I'm getting the feeling Toprak is going to drag up the performance of the other Wsbk BMW riders by showing them what is possible / driving development of the bike in a beneficial direction. That and BMW really seem to mean business with the test riders and investment.
I'd love to see him back up at the front, and he's easily one of my favourite riders.However, the snapshot of short run speed that he's produced at the tests doesn't answer the problems that the BMW has always had, and what was Redding's main frustrations : The brakes don't last race distance (I assume a serious issue for Toprak who's notoriously hard on the brakes) and the bike is very hard on tyres (less of a problem for him as he's not a tyre slider on corner exit, and gets it stopped and drives out)
From what I've read and heard, the latter is to do with the electronics, as BMW will only use their own system, and not the Magenetti Marelli system that every other team on the grid use
Either way, I'm really looking forward to WSBk starting in just a couple of weeks. Feels like it's been a long winter of no racing
WSBK is really interesting this year with all the rider changes and new teams.
I'd live to see him in the mix again, and there's a few new faces that can throw in some curveballs this year, so should be an interesting season
He will make that BMW do things it didn't know it could this year, he may not be the best of the rest and may have a few offs or technicals but he will be there or thereabouts
graeme4130 said:
flatlandsman said:
For me Toprak is head and shoulders above anyone. We know the Yamaha is a great bike from BSB, but against basically a GP bike that costs 35 grand more than it the Turk was in the fight all year, and riding on the edge of everything to be there.
I am not having a huge pop at Redding here, he is a very good rider but he is also British so we tend to have rose tinted specs, the bike was subtly different when Alvaro got on it yes but he also dominated on it before remember in the similar spec to Reddings years.
A lot of riders when they switch codes bring their speed with them, i think redding did this in BSB, Whtham did it years ago iN Supersport, came and rode an R6 at Donington from SBK and a few GP rides and mullered everyone.
I appreciate his contracts with BMW would no way allow this, but how good would it be to see him do a BSB wildcard at Cadwell ?I am not having a huge pop at Redding here, he is a very good rider but he is also British so we tend to have rose tinted specs, the bike was subtly different when Alvaro got on it yes but he also dominated on it before remember in the similar spec to Reddings years.
A lot of riders when they switch codes bring their speed with them, i think redding did this in BSB, Whtham did it years ago iN Supersport, came and rode an R6 at Donington from SBK and a few GP rides and mullered everyone.
I suspect he'd get his arse handed to him, but he's an entertaining rider and mega to watch
flatlandsman said:
My point exactly graeme, I love Cadwell I grew up watching stuff there but is is perhaps the most unsafe track they race on other than praps the Brands long circuit. Yet we have no issue going there as it is owned by the gaffer.
This almost double standard is what gets me, I know and understand why He owns them all, but the North has nothing other than KNockhill, Croft was perfectly decent, I know there were issues but surely something could be done. They can host BTCC which has lots of classes similar media requirements I dont know about safety but surely it's possible, maybe they dont have enough noise dates after previous problems.
I know it wont, but to have an event in the middle of nowhere over and above several possible UK venues is rather sad, but I guess it is the way modern racing is.
The trouble with Croft is, some miserbale excuse for a human being moved nearby and then spent god alone knows how long whinging about the noise, so they had to reduce the number of days they were allowed to operate and hence why MSV have not bought the circuit. This almost double standard is what gets me, I know and understand why He owns them all, but the North has nothing other than KNockhill, Croft was perfectly decent, I know there were issues but surely something could be done. They can host BTCC which has lots of classes similar media requirements I dont know about safety but surely it's possible, maybe they dont have enough noise dates after previous problems.
I know it wont, but to have an event in the middle of nowhere over and above several possible UK venues is rather sad, but I guess it is the way modern racing is.
Rob 131 Sport said:
Whilst Leon is super talented and I’m sure the BMW will be very good, I can’t realistically see anyone getting the better of Glen Irwin on the Ducati.
i agree with this, with the best will in the world it has to be difficult to see past PBM and Irwin winning againTwinKam said:
Zarco said:
graeme4130 said:
Zarco said:
TwinKam said:
slopes said:
Haslam confirmed as racing for BMW under ROKiT Haslam BMW, a new team formed by Leon and Ron with support from ROKiT and BMW Motorrad
Racing 'for BMW', or racing on a BMW ?Zarco said:
slopes said:
Seeley in BSS apparently on an R6 for Binch Racing
Just seen that. Great news. Big fan of Sealey. Reigniting of the bad blood between Seeley and Kennedy?
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