BSB 2024 Grids
Discussion
A long time. It's about brand awareness and sales. Ferrari haven't won an F1 drivers title since 2007, but have never sold as many road cars.
FHO's budget generally and marketing budget specifically is enormous compared with Haslam's. Their corporate entertainment facility -v- his, is another example. Who is left now as "big" team, with a "big" presence? OMG and FHO.
The season starts in 2 months' time. Everyone already knows that FHO BMW will be at Navarra. No one outside of Haslam's outfit knows whether he will be there. How do you market that?
The fact that Ms. Ho is a female is important to BMW.
Who is Ms. Ho's fiance? Who is that fiance's boss? Who owns the BSB series? Who provides the BSB safety and medical cars? Mr. Higgs' car? Who provides the cars for driving experience days, course cars, safety cars, medical cars and other uses to MSV circuits? Whose advertising is across the start/finish line at Donington? BMW have an extensive arrangement with MSV.
FHO's budget generally and marketing budget specifically is enormous compared with Haslam's. Their corporate entertainment facility -v- his, is another example. Who is left now as "big" team, with a "big" presence? OMG and FHO.
The season starts in 2 months' time. Everyone already knows that FHO BMW will be at Navarra. No one outside of Haslam's outfit knows whether he will be there. How do you market that?
The fact that Ms. Ho is a female is important to BMW.
Who is Ms. Ho's fiance? Who is that fiance's boss? Who owns the BSB series? Who provides the BSB safety and medical cars? Mr. Higgs' car? Who provides the cars for driving experience days, course cars, safety cars, medical cars and other uses to MSV circuits? Whose advertising is across the start/finish line at Donington? BMW have an extensive arrangement with MSV.
I doubt that, the main reason for that relationship is Hicky and what he does at the TT and that relationship with BMW seems sound.
They also do a lot of stuff around females in bike racing and while not yet getting results that is a vital aspect of the team too.
BMW have done a lot of work this past few months and that will trickle down, signing the best Superbike racer i the world tends to do that.
You do not break a relationship down like that after setting records at the TT, (arguably a far bigger and more important race than any BSB season), just because the bike is not that quick on UK circuits in the hands of your star man. And make no bones about it, Hicky is the star man in that team
They also do a lot of stuff around females in bike racing and while not yet getting results that is a vital aspect of the team too.
BMW have done a lot of work this past few months and that will trickle down, signing the best Superbike racer i the world tends to do that.
You do not break a relationship down like that after setting records at the TT, (arguably a far bigger and more important race than any BSB season), just because the bike is not that quick on UK circuits in the hands of your star man. And make no bones about it, Hicky is the star man in that team
I’m willing to bet that as long as Hickman is winning at the TT and especially after winning Fay Ho’s hone race, he won’t be giving up BMW anytime soon as it seems to be THE bike for the roads.
Will FHO dump him to use a different bike?
Or will Brookes jump ship if things dont go his way?
Will FHO dump him to use a different bike?
Or will Brookes jump ship if things dont go his way?
flatlandsman said:
I doubt that, the main reason for that relationship is Hicky and what he does at the TT and that relationship with BMW seems sound.
They also do a lot of stuff around females in bike racing and while not yet getting results that is a vital aspect of the team too.
BMW have done a lot of work this past few months and that will trickle down, signing the best Superbike racer i the world tends to do that.
You do not break a relationship down like that after setting records at the TT, (arguably a far bigger and more important race than any BSB season), just because the bike is not that quick on UK circuits in the hands of your star man. And make no bones about it, Hicky is the star man in that team
Does wsbk stuff actually trickle down into bsb ?They also do a lot of stuff around females in bike racing and while not yet getting results that is a vital aspect of the team too.
BMW have done a lot of work this past few months and that will trickle down, signing the best Superbike racer i the world tends to do that.
You do not break a relationship down like that after setting records at the TT, (arguably a far bigger and more important race than any BSB season), just because the bike is not that quick on UK circuits in the hands of your star man. And make no bones about it, Hicky is the star man in that team
Aren't the bikes chalk and cheese ?
flatlandsman said:
I doubt that, the main reason for that relationship is Hicky and what he does at the TT and that relationship with BMW seems sound.
They also do a lot of stuff around females in bike racing and while not yet getting results that is a vital aspect of the team too.
BMW have done a lot of work this past few months and that will trickle down, signing the best Superbike racer i the world tends to do that.
You do not break a relationship down like that after setting records at the TT, (arguably a far bigger and more important race than any BSB season), just because the bike is not that quick on UK circuits in the hands of your star man. And make no bones about it, Hicky is the star man in that team
I suspect you're not quite right there. Fay Ho wants the very best, and can afford the very best, so will move bikes if she thinks there's a better package out there. Being the official team means nothing if you don't think the bike you're on can win in BSBThey also do a lot of stuff around females in bike racing and while not yet getting results that is a vital aspect of the team too.
BMW have done a lot of work this past few months and that will trickle down, signing the best Superbike racer i the world tends to do that.
You do not break a relationship down like that after setting records at the TT, (arguably a far bigger and more important race than any BSB season), just because the bike is not that quick on UK circuits in the hands of your star man. And make no bones about it, Hicky is the star man in that team
Hicky can still ride a BMW for the roads, and it can still be FHO supported, but not FHO branded (just like his Triumph Roads SS bike)
egor110 said:
flatlandsman said:
I doubt that, the main reason for that relationship is Hicky and what he does at the TT and that relationship with BMW seems sound.
They also do a lot of stuff around females in bike racing and while not yet getting results that is a vital aspect of the team too.
BMW have done a lot of work this past few months and that will trickle down, signing the best Superbike racer i the world tends to do that.
You do not break a relationship down like that after setting records at the TT, (arguably a far bigger and more important race than any BSB season), just because the bike is not that quick on UK circuits in the hands of your star man. And make no bones about it, Hicky is the star man in that team
Does wsbk stuff actually trickle down into bsb ?They also do a lot of stuff around females in bike racing and while not yet getting results that is a vital aspect of the team too.
BMW have done a lot of work this past few months and that will trickle down, signing the best Superbike racer i the world tends to do that.
You do not break a relationship down like that after setting records at the TT, (arguably a far bigger and more important race than any BSB season), just because the bike is not that quick on UK circuits in the hands of your star man. And make no bones about it, Hicky is the star man in that team
Aren't the bikes chalk and cheese ?
A WSBK bike doesn't need that, as the electronics control all the slide and torque delivery characteristics. If you watch WSBk, you'll often see the rider literally close the throttle to go onto the brakes, and the moment they're off the brakes, they're full throttle. If you did that on a BSB bike in most corners, you'd be in row Z of the grandstand
You do get some level of intervention with a BSB bike through Split throttle bodies for cylinder deactivation and anti detonation mapping etc, but nothing like the level in WSBk, which I would suggest is why the transition between the two is so difficult, as the setting up of the bike with regards to the mapping per corner etc is a whole new skill set to learn above and beyond the riding of the bike
Plus, WSBK tracks tend to be very different to BSB tracks (obviously excluding Donington) as most WSBK tracks are fast and slowing, whereas BSB tracks are typically much more stop/start
graeme4130 said:
flatlandsman said:
I doubt that, the main reason for that relationship is Hicky and what he does at the TT and that relationship with BMW seems sound.
They also do a lot of stuff around females in bike racing and while not yet getting results that is a vital aspect of the team too.
BMW have done a lot of work this past few months and that will trickle down, signing the best Superbike racer i the world tends to do that.
You do not break a relationship down like that after setting records at the TT, (arguably a far bigger and more important race than any BSB season), just because the bike is not that quick on UK circuits in the hands of your star man. And make no bones about it, Hicky is the star man in that team
I suspect you're not quite right there. Fay Ho wants the very best, and can afford the very best, so will move bikes if she thinks there's a better package out there. Being the official team means nothing if you don't think the bike you're on can win in BSBThey also do a lot of stuff around females in bike racing and while not yet getting results that is a vital aspect of the team too.
BMW have done a lot of work this past few months and that will trickle down, signing the best Superbike racer i the world tends to do that.
You do not break a relationship down like that after setting records at the TT, (arguably a far bigger and more important race than any BSB season), just because the bike is not that quick on UK circuits in the hands of your star man. And make no bones about it, Hicky is the star man in that team
Hicky can still ride a BMW for the roads, and it can still be FHO supported, but not FHO branded (just like his Triumph Roads SS bike)
No doubt they would want some form of factory support so Yamaha is more or less out, Honda is defo out.
No Suzuki presence in racing full stop, so that leaves Kawasaki or Ducati. On the mainland, fine but on the roads the Kawasaki is lacking as Harrison has shown.
Could be a very interesting season indeed with potentially far reaching implications.
But agreed what someone said earlier, if Haslam gets his engines sorted - and he only got them at short notice or so the story goes - then he could well make FHO look silly
LF5335 said:
Does a team have to run the same bikes in BSB and Roads? FHO are hugely wealthy they could quite easily run the best bikes for short circuit and a separate manufacturer for the roads from a financial angle.
They don't, but most do.See James Hillier for example, rode Kawasaki's on the mainland becuase he rode for Bournemouth Kawasaki on the roads, now does the same for OMG on Yamaha's. Hickman is the same, ever since he started riding for what was then Smiths, he's ridden BMW's except in the smaller classes on the roads for obvious reasons.
I suppose the thing is, if you represent one manufacturer, they want loyalty of the brand and so it doesn't make a lot of sense to ride something totally different in other areas.
Of course if Hickman started his own team for the roads - yes i know he runs the Triumphs under his own banner - then in theory he could ride what he likes
slopes said:
Be interesting to see which bike they would choose IF they ditched BMW.
No doubt they would want some form of factory support so Yamaha is more or less out, Honda is defo out.
No Suzuki presence in racing full stop, so that leaves Kawasaki or Ducati. On the mainland, fine but on the roads the Kawasaki is lacking as Harrison has shown.
Could be a very interesting season indeed with potentially far reaching implications.
But agreed what someone said earlier, if Haslam gets his engines sorted - and he only got them at short notice or so the story goes - then he could well make FHO look silly
With the way that the rules now mean all parts are available to everyone, regardless of being a factory team or not, I'm not sure it's so important to be recognised as the official team any more, and the only real benefit is data from the WSBK team, most of which is largely unusable in BSB, or the option to have your riders wildcard for them at WSBK rounds, which again isn't an issue if you have enough cash and just want to run yourself with their help No doubt they would want some form of factory support so Yamaha is more or less out, Honda is defo out.
No Suzuki presence in racing full stop, so that leaves Kawasaki or Ducati. On the mainland, fine but on the roads the Kawasaki is lacking as Harrison has shown.
Could be a very interesting season indeed with potentially far reaching implications.
But agreed what someone said earlier, if Haslam gets his engines sorted - and he only got them at short notice or so the story goes - then he could well make FHO look silly
FHO have a pretty much unlimited budget, so can choose whatever they decide is the best bike
I wouldn't be surprised to see them on Ducati's though
The Leon motor issue isn't hard to sort given some planning time, and from what I understand, it's very much sorted for this season
Hickman would not want to use a Duke on the roads I would imagine, he has more say I think in that team than people realise. And I suspect if they did this he would leave and form his own team around BMW I guess.
I was not really comparing SBK and BSB bikes they are both subtly different, what was interesting last year was that BMW had poor years in BSB AND SBK really, I think mainly as Redding could not setup a paddock stand, but Pete was also very poor in BSB, and he would have been using the latest bike, was Haslam not using a 22 bike? Or 223 bike and 22 engines. So maybe more sorted? Easier to ride.
Not taking anything away from him, he rode superbly, but they do get it wrong at times with new bikes!!
Interestingly it seemed to me Gerloff was getting the most out of it in SBK towards year end.
I was not really comparing SBK and BSB bikes they are both subtly different, what was interesting last year was that BMW had poor years in BSB AND SBK really, I think mainly as Redding could not setup a paddock stand, but Pete was also very poor in BSB, and he would have been using the latest bike, was Haslam not using a 22 bike? Or 223 bike and 22 engines. So maybe more sorted? Easier to ride.
Not taking anything away from him, he rode superbly, but they do get it wrong at times with new bikes!!
Interestingly it seemed to me Gerloff was getting the most out of it in SBK towards year end.
flatlandsman said:
Hickman would not want to use a Duke on the roads I would imagine, he has more say I think in that team than people realise. And I suspect if they did this he would leave and form his own team around BMW I guess.
I was not really comparing SBK and BSB bikes they are both subtly different, what was interesting last year was that BMW had poor years in BSB AND SBK really, I think mainly as Redding could not setup a paddock stand, but Pete was also very poor in BSB, and he would have been using the latest bike, was Haslam not using a 22 bike? Or 223 bike and 22 engines. So maybe more sorted? Easier to ride.
Not taking anything away from him, he rode superbly, but they do get it wrong at times with new bikes!!
Interestingly it seemed to me Gerloff was getting the most out of it in SBK towards year end.
The team could easily run Hicky on a BMW for the roads, funded by FHO, but under his own PHR team, or like the Triumph he runs in separate livery I was not really comparing SBK and BSB bikes they are both subtly different, what was interesting last year was that BMW had poor years in BSB AND SBK really, I think mainly as Redding could not setup a paddock stand, but Pete was also very poor in BSB, and he would have been using the latest bike, was Haslam not using a 22 bike? Or 223 bike and 22 engines. So maybe more sorted? Easier to ride.
Not taking anything away from him, he rode superbly, but they do get it wrong at times with new bikes!!
Interestingly it seemed to me Gerloff was getting the most out of it in SBK towards year end.
You're right though, I'm not sure he'd want to ride a Ducati on the track, but also isn't stupid and knows that he's onto a really good thing with FHO's cash, and it's easy enough to switch between bikes from short circuits to roads.
Leon was on a 23 bike, but had old shape fairings as SMR had a load of them and they were very cheap (new carbon fairings are circa £12k a set, and you can easily go through 10-15 sets in a season, so using old shape ones when you're running your own team on your own budget is a no brainer )
Sidecar Man said:
Dont think Leon will do much at BSB this year. After a massive high side in testing. He will be lucky to make the 1st round.
Faye Ho is now married to Stuart Higgs
Just to be accurate, it wasn’t a highside, and he’s planning on being back riding later this month as we’re in Spain testing Feb 29th and he’s confident he’ll be in riding shape, albeit not 100% fit, by then Faye Ho is now married to Stuart Higgs
graeme4130 said:
Just to be accurate, it wasn’t a highside, and he’s planning on being back riding later this month as we’re in Spain testing Feb 29th and he’s confident he’ll be in riding shape, albeit not 100% fit, by then
Oh Okay I just heard 8 weeks recovery after the Shoulder Surgery. Must have been mis informedSidecar Man said:
graeme4130 said:
In fairness, it probably is a long recovery, but he’s a tough little bugger, so will probably try and ride way before he really should
Whole family's the same. Worked with Ron for 13 years. Ron ended up in hospital last year following a BMX crash
Bloody bmx at 67
MSVR have put the info out for the resurfacing and layout changes for Navarra
Looks like they’ve improved it as some of those tight sections were not amazing according to those that rode there in the test last spring
It’ll also
Level the playing field as anyone that’s ridden there last year won’t have any meaningful data
https://www.msv.com/news/2024/jan/29/msv-announces...
Looks like they’ve improved it as some of those tight sections were not amazing according to those that rode there in the test last spring
It’ll also
Level the playing field as anyone that’s ridden there last year won’t have any meaningful data
https://www.msv.com/news/2024/jan/29/msv-announces...
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