Geometry setup problems! and Settings
Discussion
During wintertime I have done a full suspension upgrade to my Griff (4.3/93). Polybushes shore 95, set of nitrons and an anti rollbar at the back. Now I have been at a garage to have a full geometry setup. Got the car back today and had the first ride. In corners the car is just great, but on the straight line I need both hands at the steering wheel, because the car tries to jump from one side to the other. It´s more than nervy. I am not sure that the local garage has used the right figures. So if someone can send me the official geometry setup data, it would be just great. Any other idea is welcome. I am just disappointed right now.
jochen
jochen
gulliotine
thank you very much for your info. I have moved up from the two piece wishbones to the new one piece wishbones which you find in all new modells. But it might be, that I still made a mistake by bringing all together. In the parts catalog, they are talking of a thick spacer (which i have installed) and two small spacer (which I have, but never installed since I couldn`t manage to get between ball joint and whisbone).
But more important to me is that I need to know what the right CASTER figure is, so that I can try to add these shims at the right place.
Do you have any hints regarding that.
Jochen
thank you very much for your info. I have moved up from the two piece wishbones to the new one piece wishbones which you find in all new modells. But it might be, that I still made a mistake by bringing all together. In the parts catalog, they are talking of a thick spacer (which i have installed) and two small spacer (which I have, but never installed since I couldn`t manage to get between ball joint and whisbone).
But more important to me is that I need to know what the right CASTER figure is, so that I can try to add these shims at the right place.
Do you have any hints regarding that.
Jochen
andy,
I have double checked the place of the big spacer again and it´s pointing to the front of the car. So it should be o.k.
Might be that I get a better insight, when I have the exact factory figures for the caster.
Here are my setup figures after it has been set up:
FRONT
CASTER
left 4°48
right 4°48
CAMBER
left -1°06
right -1°06
TOE IN
left 0°06
right 0°06
BACK
CAMBER
left -1°24
right -1°24
TOE IN
left 0°18
right 0°18
If someone sees anything ín here which points out my problem, please let me know.
cheers jochen
I have double checked the place of the big spacer again and it´s pointing to the front of the car. So it should be o.k.
Might be that I get a better insight, when I have the exact factory figures for the caster.
Here are my setup figures after it has been set up:
FRONT
CASTER
left 4°48
right 4°48
CAMBER
left -1°06
right -1°06
TOE IN
left 0°06
right 0°06
BACK
CAMBER
left -1°24
right -1°24
TOE IN
left 0°18
right 0°18
If someone sees anything ín here which points out my problem, please let me know.
cheers jochen
andy,
thanks for all your informations. During weekend I will "play" arround a bit to see what happens. I got the advice from a local garage to try first the "toe in" at the front. If that doesn´t help, I will contact a guy that is responsible for suspension stuff for all BMW M modells. He should know about how to set up a car.
Talking to the head of the motorsports devision of Bilstein dampers, he mentioned, that it might have something to do with my wheels, since they have a different ET (don´t know the english expression for ET) than the originals.
I will keep you posted if anything has changed. First of all thank you very much for your help.
Cheers Jochen
thanks for all your informations. During weekend I will "play" arround a bit to see what happens. I got the advice from a local garage to try first the "toe in" at the front. If that doesn´t help, I will contact a guy that is responsible for suspension stuff for all BMW M modells. He should know about how to set up a car.
Talking to the head of the motorsports devision of Bilstein dampers, he mentioned, that it might have something to do with my wheels, since they have a different ET (don´t know the english expression for ET) than the originals.
I will keep you posted if anything has changed. First of all thank you very much for your help.
Cheers Jochen
Julian,
I have been beside the setup system which was a laser system. Might be that the systems has shown figures, which in reality are not right, but what I could see and have on paper are the figures that I have stated before. Might be that the guy did a great job.
Nevertheless, the behavior of the car is still bad.
The only figure which is out of range is the toe in at the back, which is in total 36 minutes at my car.
Reason - we couldn´t open the screw at one of the whisbones, therefore he could,´t adjust the toe on one side. So he decided to put them both the same.
Hope, that this is not the reason of my problem.
Jochen
I have been beside the setup system which was a laser system. Might be that the systems has shown figures, which in reality are not right, but what I could see and have on paper are the figures that I have stated before. Might be that the guy did a great job.
Nevertheless, the behavior of the car is still bad.
The only figure which is out of range is the toe in at the back, which is in total 36 minutes at my car.
Reason - we couldn´t open the screw at one of the whisbones, therefore he could,´t adjust the toe on one side. So he decided to put them both the same.
Hope, that this is not the reason of my problem.
Jochen
Steve,
Iam running 7,5x17 (offset = 25) with 215/40 ZR 17 / front axle and 8,5 x 18 (offset = 30) with 235/40 ZR 18/ rear axle.
To my understanding, there is no difference regarding the suspension between the 4.x Griffith and the newer ones, if you have the single upper wishbone at the front axle and an anti roll bar in the back. Am I wrong.
Jochen
Iam running 7,5x17 (offset = 25) with 215/40 ZR 17 / front axle and 8,5 x 18 (offset = 30) with 235/40 ZR 18/ rear axle.
To my understanding, there is no difference regarding the suspension between the 4.x Griffith and the newer ones, if you have the single upper wishbone at the front axle and an anti roll bar in the back. Am I wrong.
Jochen
I ordered the standard factory wishbones from peninsula, which are more or less grey. Got from Dave the factory alignment figures for the "spider wheel" upgrade, which are in terms of size etc. more like mine. Toe in is standard, camber a bit more up to 1°25 and caster up to 5°00 which is nearly what I have done to my car. So it should be o.k. Today I talked to a guy which is in the racing business (Formel Renault). Hope that he will drive my car sometime to figure out what hopefully helps.
cheers
Jochen
cheers
Jochen
Peter,
thanks for your long reply. Today I tried to give a litte more toe at the front (turned the steering link a quarter on both sides) but no major differences.
But first I will try to give answers to your questions as good as I can.
It even happens, when I drive our really bad street in front of our house along. And that is at 20mph. The whole car moves from left to right when I am running above some pumps. Sometime it feels like the back axles tries to steer in a different direction.
The max speed I have tried is arround 70-90mph. I have the autobahn directly at my door (1 mile) but I haven´t had the courage to go faster than 90 miles.
By the way, the new nitrons are set to 7 clicks from minus at the front and 8 clicks at the back. I think its a good starting point. I have´nt checked the springs right now. They came as a set from Peninsula (the front spring should be slightly uprated - but no exact figures).
But as I said, you just need to go between 20to 60 miles and you will feed scared.
To get the car back in line, you have to move the steering wheel. How often is depending on the road. As more pumpy as more I have to steer. Sometimes I need more than my lane to get the car back.
If the street is absolutely flat, than it´s quite o.k., but you feel, that the car is still absolut nervy. When I had these situations on the autobahn at arround 80-90 mph my head shakes left and right so hard jumps the car left and right.
I tried tyres pressure from 20 up to 28 at the front and at the back. Right now I am running 22 at the front and 24 at the back. My feeling is, as less pressure as worth is the behavior. The ride hide was lowered with the new dampers about 1 inch all arround. After that they did the setup.
The anti roll bar is a 22mm one. That´s all I have regarding this.
Sometimes the feeling is, as if the rear axle would be loose and steer a different direction than me. Sound stupid, I know. But that you can feel this at speeds like 20 mph wonders me. So I have checked all screws at the back axle 10 times now, even had a look at the mountings of the differential. But couldn´t find anything.
If I wouldn´t have seen that the car was on a laser setup system, I would bet, that there is something absolutely wrong.
cheers jochen
thanks for your long reply. Today I tried to give a litte more toe at the front (turned the steering link a quarter on both sides) but no major differences.
But first I will try to give answers to your questions as good as I can.
It even happens, when I drive our really bad street in front of our house along. And that is at 20mph. The whole car moves from left to right when I am running above some pumps. Sometime it feels like the back axles tries to steer in a different direction.
The max speed I have tried is arround 70-90mph. I have the autobahn directly at my door (1 mile) but I haven´t had the courage to go faster than 90 miles.
By the way, the new nitrons are set to 7 clicks from minus at the front and 8 clicks at the back. I think its a good starting point. I have´nt checked the springs right now. They came as a set from Peninsula (the front spring should be slightly uprated - but no exact figures).
But as I said, you just need to go between 20to 60 miles and you will feed scared.
To get the car back in line, you have to move the steering wheel. How often is depending on the road. As more pumpy as more I have to steer. Sometimes I need more than my lane to get the car back.
If the street is absolutely flat, than it´s quite o.k., but you feel, that the car is still absolut nervy. When I had these situations on the autobahn at arround 80-90 mph my head shakes left and right so hard jumps the car left and right.
I tried tyres pressure from 20 up to 28 at the front and at the back. Right now I am running 22 at the front and 24 at the back. My feeling is, as less pressure as worth is the behavior. The ride hide was lowered with the new dampers about 1 inch all arround. After that they did the setup.
The anti roll bar is a 22mm one. That´s all I have regarding this.
Sometimes the feeling is, as if the rear axle would be loose and steer a different direction than me. Sound stupid, I know. But that you can feel this at speeds like 20 mph wonders me. So I have checked all screws at the back axle 10 times now, even had a look at the mountings of the differential. But couldn´t find anything.
If I wouldn´t have seen that the car was on a laser setup system, I would bet, that there is something absolutely wrong.
cheers jochen
When I renewed the suspension during wintertime, I did more or less erverything. New bushes, new steering UJ´s, new upper and lower ball joints, new one piece upper wishbones and the right lower wishbone at the rear, since I destroyed this while I tried to press the bushes out. Got this new, but I don´t know if there has been a desing change between my car (93) and the wishbone I got new. It didn´t look so. First I thougt somesthing is loose, but after checking everything again and even not hearing any rattling by driving arcross pumps, it seems to me not.
Jochen
Jochen
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