can't stand this place anymore

Jesus that wound me right up reading that, you just can't reason with them!

I disagree: only people who live here can really understand this particular form of garlic flavoured pain

Oh i understand it ok enough Driller. But did my homework before living here and soon realised that a thriving business is a rare beast here.

But to be fair to you,your business is up there in the front line to be shot at by any old RSI or URSSAF unlike many of us that can keep our head down most of the time.

I think it's a bit patronising to say that people haven't done their homework,no amount of homework can prepare you for the reality

If i had said that then yes it would have been patronising! But i did not ,if you care to re-read my post you can clearly see that i said that i had done my homework.

I agree with most that has been said on this thread,and can understand Driller's frustration's.

At least once a day i go off into one about something or other about living here. But i still like my life here and in my opinion every one has a slightly different story. In the main mine is positive.

Me too

I thought you had the Ordre to fall back on? Most of the dentists I know in France make more money than in the UK. The freedom to make whatever profit you want on parts allows a hefty margin. I know GACD and Mega Dental are not the cheapest, but there are a few new French on-line companies that offer decent prices.
The reality that a lot of work cannot be done by assistants here in France just needs a re-think of the way you plan work. Having 2 chairs still very much makes sense here and still allows for a much better productivity I think.

I lived there a couple of years ,dordogne , I've been reading this thread and can only agree with all of the problems people point out .
The best thing I never did was move there properly , I ended up selling a house after a load of time and money and barely breaking even .
Unfortunately I built a new house on the plot next door , by myself , and now I'm in the position of if I sell I'll not even break even !
The way I read the new tax rules I'll need to keep it ten years before any relief kicks in ?
It's a great place when the sun shines though , unfortunately it doesn't in the wet winters , I'm pleased we came back to blighty when we did , the few people I met down there when lived there wish they came back with me .
Even the few Dutch people I met are complaining now !

The Ordre is as good as useless and seem only concerned in feathering their own nests and not making waves until their hefty retirements. The CNSD is even worse and must actively be in league with the social security when you consider all the freedoms they have signed away for absolutely nothing in return (well not for us anyway).

If you're comparing France with the NHS then fair play but I can't imagine a UK private dentist making less than a French dentist. For conservative treatment (which makes up 70%+ of what we do) there's no contest. Composite filling in UK £120+, in France from €17 - €40, molar end in UK is £500 odd plus in France it's €80! An extraction in France, even surgical, is €33, in the UK they start from about £100 for a simple one!

Add to that the tax and URSSAF...no I don't see it.

GACD, Megadental, Promodentaire etc are all a crazy ripoff and as ever in France they have the monopoly and nobody does anything.

To be slightly fair, a contributing factor must be that old friend the URSSAF etc that pushes prices up but even considering that it's very expensive and as usual it's us "rich" dentists who are expected to cough up.

I have 3 chairs, with an associate working on one but I really need to get another associate but the trouble it's an associates market over here (in the UK it's the other way round with many associates going for the same job) plus I'd have to hire another assistant so with URSSAF bye bye to another €3000+ each month...

Not sure what you mean by "The reality that a lot of work cannot be done by assistants here in France " but if you mean the fact that there's not enough staff and so they can't be everywhere then yes there are things you can do (longer appointments for example) but there's no substitute for sufficient staff numbers.

Are you a dentist, you seem to know a lot? It looks like you're in Luxembourg, if you're a dentist there you must be very happy, good choice!


Hi Steve, yes some dentists are on strike next week (although they're so st at defending themselves probably only a few will be-I've got the week off. There is a general strike on 22 Jan).

Not too familiar with the EHIC setup but for a panoramic radiograph it's €21 odd or a small film €7.98, extraction as above €33 odd. A consultation is €23 and they might put this in or not (bearing in mind how cheap the extraction is).

So if you're paid back the 70% it's not going to cost very much

Please let me know if I can be of any further help.

Thanks Driller you`re a star! she is feeling better this morning so may get through Christmas anyway!

In fact the prices I mention are the 100% price (IE what the dentist gets paid). The secu reimburses 70% of this and if they have a mutuel, it pays the remaining 30%. So for an extraction I get paid €33, the secu reimburses €23.10 to the patient and the mutuel the remaining €10 odd.


And here is the problem, yes there is!

All conservative treatment ("soin") in France is capped. The idea is "access au soin pour tout", a wonderfully communist idea that only the French could come up with. This treatment represents 70% of a dentists activity and so it doesn't matter how much you invest in your practice, how comfortable and hitech it is (and mine is very comfortable and hitch!) , you do not have the right to ask for more than the basic price for treatment.

And it doesn't work. Some dentists know they can't make money with fillings so they just leave them until they turn into a toothache needing root treatment and a crown. Well done the socialists!

These prices are outlandishly low, in fact they are the lowest in Europe including Eastern block countries like Hungry etc They haven't been updated properly for years and the base for reimbursement since 1987, which they conveniently forget to mention.

When you consider the advancements made in dental techniques and equipment (including the prices!) over the years it comes as no surprise that a dentist performs this treatment in France at a loss.

The prosthetics treatment (crowns, bridges, implants...) is relatively expensive (these prices, illogically are not capped) in an attempt to make up for the loss with all the other treatment although when compared to the rest of Europe these prices remain in the norm.

Yeah, my associate gets 60% (she pays her lab bill) so when you remove the leasing for the brand new surgery she has, materials and the €3000 per month for her assistant there's not much left. It just means the practice gets to be open all hours.

As far as them doing work in the mouth it would be handy to have a hygienist (doesn't exist here) and for them to be able to do whitening.


Blimey, that must be a real headache doing that, it would drive me mad.



Hope it all goes to plan