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srebbe64
12,838 posts
106 months
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otolith said: srebbe64 said: If guilty I can't understand their motive???? The suspected motive is a desire to be rehoused in a bigger house - if true, one has to assume that the intention was not to kill their children. Okay - if that's the case (didn't want to kill kids) - why no apparent upset when in front of the cameras. And I don't think Hollywood will come looking for his acting services any time soon!
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Apache
38,250 posts
153 months
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srebbe64 said: otolith said: srebbe64 said: If guilty I can't understand their motive???? The suspected motive is a desire to be rehoused in a bigger house - if true, one has to assume that the intention was not to kill their children. Okay - if that's the case (didn't want to kill kids) - why no apparent upset when in front of the cameras. And I don't think Hollywood will come looking for his acting services any time soon! they had dozens of them and they were practically feral by all accounts so more of a means to an end? hence using them in a callous attempt to be rehoused
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bitchstewie
8,774 posts
79 months
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srebbe64 said: Okay - if that's the case (didn't want to kill kids) - why no apparent upset when in front of the cameras. And I don't think Hollywood will come looking for his acting services any time soon! What's the normal way to behave when you've just lost six of your kids? People act differently, there is no right or wrong.
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srebbe64
12,838 posts
106 months
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b  hstewie said: srebbe64 said: Okay - if that's the case (didn't want to kill kids) - why no apparent upset when in front of the cameras. And I don't think Hollywood will come looking for his acting services any time soon! What's the normal way to behave when you've just lost six of your kids? People act differently, there is no right or wrong. Wiping away non existent tears is rather an odd way to grieve!
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TwigtheWonderkid
6,098 posts
19 months
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I'm not an expert, but I think you can be done for murder even if you didn't mean to kill the victim(s), if what you did was so reckless and dangerous that death was the likely outcome.
If you throw someone off a cliff deliberately, that's murder, even if you didn't mean to kill them. What the hell did you think the outcome would be? Setting fire to your house with petrol with kids asleep inside.....make your own minds up.
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Steffan
6,201 posts
97 months
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TwigtheWonderkid said: I'm not an expert, but I think you can be done for murder even if you didn't mean to kill the victim(s), if what you did was so reckless and dangerous that death was the likely outcome.
If you throw someone off a cliff deliberately, that's murder, even if you didn't mean to kill them. What the hell did you think the outcome would be? Setting fire to your house with petrol with kids asleep inside.....make your own minds up. Problem with Murder is intent. There is a separate crime: Arson with Intent to Endanger Life which still carries very serious penalties and Manslaughter which is also very serious but does not require the same Mens Rea as Murder. I think we need to trust the police and CPS on this crime, to bring the appropriate charge in the case. The evil b ds who did this should never be released in my view. Sadly the children have lost their brief hold on life. Dreadful business. Utterly evil pair. I hope they suffer every day for the rest of their lives.
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King Herald
18,360 posts
85 months
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TwigtheWonderkid said: .....make your own minds up. We have. They're guilty of murder. String 'em up.  Job done, move along please, nothing to see here. 
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BlackVanDyke
8,045 posts
80 months
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srebbe64 said: b hstewie said: srebbe64 said: Okay - if that's the case (didn't want to kill kids) - why no apparent upset when in front of the cameras. And I don't think Hollywood will come looking for his acting services any time soon! What's the normal way to behave when you've just lost six of your kids? People act differently, there is no right or wrong. Wiping away non existent tears is rather an odd way to grieve! Wiping face/sweat? Just one or two tears? By all accounts the guy's massively dysfunctional and does not interact in a socially 'normal' manner - given that, you can't assume that he'd react to profound grief the way you (think) you would. Might even be he wiped his face because he knew he'd be expected to be crying/he'd seen how others behave in similarly awful circumstances (on telly, in soaps etc) and was mimicing that while he tried to work out what to do - I've heard of bereaved people (especially parents) panicking before because they couldn't work out what to do/say/how to act... I think I currently subscribe to the "tried to destroy house, screwed up terribly, never meant/envisaged harm to children" theory. I can't work out which would be worse though - for someone to be so sociopathic as to intentionally risk/harm children for material gain, or to be so stupid and thoughtless that their actions accidentally cost 6 young lives. If it's the first one, it's horrible. If it's the second, it's also horrible - but not least because for the rest of their miserable lives those two will carry the knowledge that their pathetic, selfish choices killed their children. I suspect if it really was an accident then the suicide of one or both parents will not be far in the future.
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Steffan
6,201 posts
97 months
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BlackVanDyke said: srebbe64 said: b hstewie said: srebbe64 said: Okay - if that's the case (didn't want to kill kids) - why no apparent upset when in front of the cameras. And I don't think Hollywood will come looking for his acting services any time soon! What's the normal way to behave when you've just lost six of your kids? People act differently, there is no right or wrong. Wiping away non existent tears is rather an odd way to grieve! Wiping face/sweat? Just one or two tears? By all accounts the guy's massively dysfunctional and does not interact in a socially 'normal' manner - given that, you can't assume that he'd react to profound grief the way you (think) you would. Might even be he wiped his face because he knew he'd be expected to be crying/he'd seen how others behave in similarly awful circumstances (on telly, in soaps etc) and was mimicing that while he tried to work out what to do - I've heard of bereaved people (especially parents) panicking before because they couldn't work out what to do/say/how to act... I think I currently subscribe to the "tried to destroy house, screwed up terribly, never meant/envisaged harm to children" theory. I can't work out which would be worse though - for someone to be so sociopathic as to intentionally risk/harm children for material gain, or to be so stupid and thoughtless that their actions accidentally cost 6 young lives. If it's the first one, it's horrible. If it's the second, it's also horrible - but not least because for the rest of their miserable lives those two will carry the knowledge that their pathetic, selfish choices killed their children. I suspect if it really was an accident then the suicide of one or both parents will not be far in the future. Good post. Very possible outcome once the enormity if the crime sinks in.
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bitchstewie
8,774 posts
79 months
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srebbe64 said: b hstewie said: srebbe64 said: Okay - if that's the case (didn't want to kill kids) - why no apparent upset when in front of the cameras. And I don't think Hollywood will come looking for his acting services any time soon! What's the normal way to behave when you've just lost six of your kids? People act differently, there is no right or wrong. Wiping away non existent tears is rather an odd way to grieve! Who knows why he did that? If he is found to have done it I subscribe to the "Massive f king prick whose rehoming plan went wrong" school of thought rather than him being an evil b d who deliberately set out to kill his kids. It's easy to assume people are evil and planned it when they're actually quite stupid and it's the lack of planning that accounted for the outcome.
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DonkeyApple
12,035 posts
38 months
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BlackVanDyke said: Wiping face/sweat? Just one or two tears?
By all accounts the guy's massively dysfunctional and does not interact in a socially 'normal' manner - given that, you can't assume that he'd react to profound grief the way you (think) you would.
Might even be he wiped his face because he knew he'd be expected to be crying/he'd seen how others behave in similarly awful circumstances (on telly, in soaps etc) and was mimicing that while he tried to work out what to do - I've heard of bereaved people (especially parents) panicking before because they couldn't work out what to do/say/how to act...
I think I currently subscribe to the "tried to destroy house, screwed up terribly, never meant/envisaged harm to children" theory.
I can't work out which would be worse though - for someone to be so sociopathic as to intentionally risk/harm children for material gain, or to be so stupid and thoughtless that their actions accidentally cost 6 young lives. If it's the first one, it's horrible. If it's the second, it's also horrible - but not least because for the rest of their miserable lives those two will carry the knowledge that their pathetic, selfish choices killed their children.
I suspect if it really was an accident then the suicide of one or both parents will not be far in the future. Yes, I tend to think it was a plan to achieve two important objectives. One, burnt out the house so they get a new one. Two, get more media coverage as the hero who saved his children from an arson attack. This would give the media attention that he liked but also apply pressure on the LA to ensure the hero was given a suitable castle to reign from. We shall have to see but it would appear that the police, who no doubt (and unfortunately for them) see how these types of people function every single day had suspicions from the outset and were playing them along. I also suspect that the charge of murder is to spook one of them out so as to make the actual charge of manslaughter etc easier and smoother to process. Kind of like DFS advertising a sofa that they want to sell at £500 as £1000 but with a 50% discount. These sort of punters love their discounts. 
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Skywalker
2,892 posts
83 months
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BlackVanDyke said: Tiggsy said: JohnnyJones said: Need a few whoosh parrots around here!
Jaffa as in fruit as in gay as in turned gay by being bummed all round the nick. Get it? Forget the "whoosh parrot"...you need the "wrong slang terminology, casual homophobia, no idea what prison is like and lack of fruit knowledge pigeon"  Yes. Indeedee.  
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audidoody
5,185 posts
125 months
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When the cops request the bereaved to attend a press conference "to appeal for those guilty to come forward" (e.g. Tracie Andrews, Karen Matthews) you can bet it is only to study their behaviour. There are probably more police psychologists at the press conference than there are hacks.
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cossy400
777 posts
53 months
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King Herald said: TwigtheWonderkid said: .....make your own minds up. We have. They're guilty of murder. String 'em up. Job done, move along please, nothing to see here. 
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onemorelap
618 posts
100 months
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DonkeyApple said: Yes, I tend to think it was a plan to achieve two important objectives. One, burnt out the house so they get a new one. Two, get more media coverage as the hero who saved his children from an arson attack. This would give the media attention that he liked but also apply pressure on the LA to ensure the hero was given a suitable castle to reign from. We shall have to see but it would appear that the police, who no doubt (and unfortunately for them) see how these types of people function every single day had suspicions from the outset and were playing them along. I also suspect that the charge of murder is to spook one of them out so as to make the actual charge of manslaughter etc easier and smoother to process. Kind of like DFS advertising a sofa that they want to sell at £500 as £1000 but with a 50% discount. These sort of punters love their discounts. Thing i dont understand is that the house was a semi so there was a high likelihood that the direct neighbours could have suffered also as a result of the fire? Could these neighbours also bring charges for intent of some sort?
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cossy400
777 posts
53 months
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Just been on the news they are not being allowed to go to the funerals.
And they are back in court monday.
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King Herald
18,360 posts
85 months
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cossy400 said: Just been on the news they are not being allowed to go to the funerals. Let them suffer, for the rest of their days. You are not supposed to bury your children they are supposed to bury you. Don't give them the closure of even saying goodbye. Besides, the whole case would fall apart if they were both lynched at the funeral by a sickened and tormented mob.....
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nelly1
4,922 posts
100 months
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King Herald said: cossy400 said: Just been on the news they are not being allowed to go to the funerals. Let them suffer, for the rest of their days. You are not supposed to bury your children they are supposed to bury you. Don't give them the closure of even saying goodbye. They never saw them as 'children' - they were only ever 'meal tickets' or 'welfare vouchers'.
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ChrisRS6
463 posts
52 months
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audidoody said: When the cops request the bereaved to attend a press conference "to appeal for those guilty to come forward" (e.g. Tracie Andrews, Karen Matthews) you can bet it is only to study their behaviour. There are probably more police psychologists at the press conference than there are hacks. DEFO!!! ive always said that....the coppers arent daft....the cases that are fishy are always put on TV pretty sharp for the appeal.......Theres been loads over the years shedding "crocodile tears".
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normalbloke
2,274 posts
88 months
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ChrisRS6 said: audidoody said: When the cops request the bereaved to attend a press conference "to appeal for those guilty to come forward" (e.g. Tracie Andrews, Karen Matthews) you can bet it is only to study their behaviour. There are probably more police psychologists at the press conference than there are hacks. DEFO!!! ive always said that....the coppers arent daft....the cases that are fishy are always put on TV pretty sharp for the appeal.......Theres been loads over the years shedding "crocodile tears". Exactly that. My next door neighbour(from moons ago) was murdered by her boyfriend and his father. He did the tearful press conference thing too before being charged/convicted.
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