CV19 - Cure Worse Than The Disease? (Vol 19)
Discussion
r3g said:
g3org3y said:
I think we must have been reading very different posts from isaldiri and Elysium over the last couple of years.
Well, if you want someone to parrot made-up figures from official government channels without any context and completely ignore what's actually going on outside in the real world, sure, I can imagine the confirmation bias is comforting for a lot of people and they can keep their blinkers on and rest-assured that all is well in the world.Those still using government data to support their arguments are basically still where John C was 2 years ago before he woke up, did his research and realsed that everything he'd been using from the government was complete BS data. It's not even a debate anymore as this stuff has been exposed wide open for years now, but some stubbornly refuse to admit it because saving face is more important.
r3g said:
119 said:
I seem to recall “JC” was outed a while ago for pushing false information.
False information according to whom ?www.google.com
119 said:
r3g said:
119 said:
I seem to recall “JC” was outed a while ago for pushing false information.
False information according to whom ?www.google.com
Elysium said:
You basically just proved Isaldiri’s point.
Your belief system is every bit as flawed as that of the people who wanted to mandate vaccination.
I don’t have a belief system, that’s the whole point. Everything about vaccination and its history is a belief system, it’s almost religious. And virus theory is even more so. Your belief system is every bit as flawed as that of the people who wanted to mandate vaccination.
Elysium said:
James may be also right about some things. But when people have reached a point where they reject all evidence that contradicts their position the possibility of any rational discussion has gone.
It is possible to have deeply held convictions whilst also remaining open to other possible explanations.
I don’t have deeply held convictions, I’ve just spent a lot of time reassessing my previous held beliefs (see previous post) and have concluded that I’ve been lied to about a lot of things. So best form of action now is to believe nothing, and I will go on what “facts” I can gather for myself. Seen no evidence I’ve seen about these “vaccines” or this “virus” that so far can convince me that I’m on the wrong path. Maybe now you’re right, that’s my deeply held conviction!It is possible to have deeply held convictions whilst also remaining open to other possible explanations.
But then, don’t we all? I mean we need labels on food to tell us how much salt is in a cucumber, but at no point does anyone question that there might be aborted foetal cells in a vaccination we blindly take
Hants PHer said:
As others have said, your posts are civilised and seem to be meant sincerely. But I'm curious: if there was no Covid virus in, say, March/April 2020, what caused the spike in infections? A paramedic (user name pneumothorax) posted on here with real life reports of very strange symptoms, notably hypoxia, that he hadn't seen before. What he witnessed, first hand, was something new and different. If not Covid, then what?
Then there's the vaccines. Studies from the likes of the ONS, NHS England and The Lancet all showed greatly reduced rates of intensive care admissions and deaths in those who had the vaccines. Those studies are freely available with a spot of cursory Googling. When you say the vaccine(s) did not do "anything positive" that can be "substantiated", are you saying that all the studies are wrong?
With all due respect, your comment that I've quoted is pretty staggering and hard to take seriously.
Hysteria, latent “flu” season (there was nothing in 2019, usually get 20k deaths annually), and very very poor health care decisions in ventilation, stress in elderly patients, end of life drugs put everything into one basket. Health care “professionals” are still human and susceptible to scare mongering and thinking they are seeing something that doesn’t exist. Then there's the vaccines. Studies from the likes of the ONS, NHS England and The Lancet all showed greatly reduced rates of intensive care admissions and deaths in those who had the vaccines. Those studies are freely available with a spot of cursory Googling. When you say the vaccine(s) did not do "anything positive" that can be "substantiated", are you saying that all the studies are wrong?
With all due respect, your comment that I've quoted is pretty staggering and hard to take seriously.
That study was totally debunked at the time, as discussed at the time. “Vaccinated” was 2 weeks after the 2nd dose, so someone admitted to ICU immediately after they received a jab would be classed as “unvaccinated”. The stats on vaccinated vs unvaccinated are unreliable at best because of this. Just look at the VAERS system, it’s enough to indicate there’s an issue.
r3g said:
119 said:
r3g said:
119 said:
I seem to recall “JC” was outed a while ago for pushing false information.
False information according to whom ?www.google.com
There is evidence out there if you care to look.
119 said:
r3g said:
119 said:
r3g said:
119 said:
I seem to recall “JC” was outed a while ago for pushing false information.
False information according to whom ?www.google.com
There is evidence out there if you care to look.
Jasandjules said:
mko9 said:
When the government has given the vaccine manufacturers immunity from liability, if there are problems with the vaccine where does that leave the blame? With the government. Can't have that. Hence why no one is looking into it with any seriousness. And the lawyers can't sue the vaccine manufacturers who have the really deep pockets, they can only sue the government. How well does that normally work out?
That is the same as all Vax. That is why we have the Vaccine Damage Payments Act...... jameswills said:
Elysium said:
James may be also right about some things. But when people have reached a point where they reject all evidence that contradicts their position the possibility of any rational discussion has gone.
It is possible to have deeply held convictions whilst also remaining open to other possible explanations.
I don’t have deeply held convictions, I’ve just spent a lot of time reassessing my previous held beliefs (see previous post) and have concluded that I’ve been lied to about a lot of things. So best form of action now is to believe nothing, and I will go on what “facts” I can gather for myself. Seen no evidence I’ve seen about these “vaccines” or this “virus” that so far can convince me that I’m on the wrong path. Maybe now you’re right, that’s my deeply held conviction!It is possible to have deeply held convictions whilst also remaining open to other possible explanations.
But then, don’t we all? I mean we need labels on food to tell us how much salt is in a cucumber, but at no point does anyone question that there might be aborted foetal cells in a vaccination we blindly take
isaldiri said:
g3org3y said:
I think we must have been reading very different posts from isaldiri and Elysium over the last couple of years.
Funnily enough, if anything it's the unfortunate elysium has probably caught the most of the sarcasm from me on the thread as I've probably had some of the strongest disagreements here with him and i admit being a little cutting does tend to creep into my posts on extended discussions that I think are getting a little too convoluted..... 
R3g’s comments about your posts are totally misplaced. But this is someone that has decided all evidence is fake. They have rejected reason, so they can’t be reasoned with, and the conclusions they reach are not reasonable.
Elysium said:
We have disagreed from time to time, but that is what discussion is all about. I am absolutely fine with it and think you have made an important and helpful contribution to this thread.
R3g’s comments about your posts are totally misplaced. But this is someone that has decided all evidence is fake. They have rejected reason, so they can’t be reasoned with, and the conclusions they reach are not reasonable.
At risk of being accused of back slapping, I will add that posts from Elysium and isaldiri have, since early 2020, been interesting, informative and helpful. Well played gentlemen.R3g’s comments about your posts are totally misplaced. But this is someone that has decided all evidence is fake. They have rejected reason, so they can’t be reasoned with, and the conclusions they reach are not reasonable.
As for r3g and jameswillis, I give up. When one references official facts from the likes of the ONS and get a response stating, in effect, that the ONS is lying, one moves beyond the realms of reasonable discussion. To hold the opinion that there was no Covid virus, and that the vaccines did nothing and/or are causing large numbers of deaths in healthy recipients is to express an opinion that is, in my opinion, unhinged.
Hants PHer said:
Elysium said:
We have disagreed from time to time, but that is what discussion is all about. I am absolutely fine with it and think you have made an important and helpful contribution to this thread.
R3g’s comments about your posts are totally misplaced. But this is someone that has decided all evidence is fake. They have rejected reason, so they can’t be reasoned with, and the conclusions they reach are not reasonable.
At risk of being accused of back slapping, I will add that posts from Elysium and isaldiri have, since early 2020, been interesting, informative and helpful. Well played gentlemen.R3g’s comments about your posts are totally misplaced. But this is someone that has decided all evidence is fake. They have rejected reason, so they can’t be reasoned with, and the conclusions they reach are not reasonable.
As for r3g and jameswillis, I give up. When one references official facts from the likes of the ONS and get a response stating, in effect, that the ONS is lying, one moves beyond the realms of reasonable discussion. To hold the opinion that there was no Covid virus, and that the vaccines did nothing and/or are causing large numbers of deaths in healthy recipients is to express an opinion that is, in my opinion, unhinged.
, the number is now just 2 people. 
Win!This is from the play book that they used for vaccination status after the magic juice jabs. It quickly became apparent that they had a huge problem on their hands with tons of people dying from the jabs in the days that immediately followed and desperately needed some way of covering it up, so what do you do? Move the goal posts again and have you believe that despite having just come back from being jabbed you are not actually jabbed until 2 weeks later, so if you die within that period then it counts as an unjabbed covid death and not from the vaccine
. And you people just accepted this blatant fraud and deceit as being completely fine. And both of these are on top of the massive fraud of recording every death as a covid death in 2020/1. Fall of a ladder changing a light bulb and die = died from covid. Died in a motorbike accident = died from covid. Parachute failed to open = died from covid. Natural old age death = died from covid. Definitely seems legit ! /s
The official numbers are total total bulls
t and anyone attempting to use them as evidence to support their claims should quite rightly be treated with the contempt they deserve for continuing to push the blatant fraud and lies that were exposed as being BS over 3 years ago.jameswills said:
Hants PHer said:
As others have said, your posts are civilised and seem to be meant sincerely. But I'm curious: if there was no Covid virus in, say, March/April 2020, what caused the spike in infections? A paramedic (user name pneumothorax) posted on here with real life reports of very strange symptoms, notably hypoxia, that he hadn't seen before. What he witnessed, first hand, was something new and different. If not Covid, then what?
Then there's the vaccines. Studies from the likes of the ONS, NHS England and The Lancet all showed greatly reduced rates of intensive care admissions and deaths in those who had the vaccines. Those studies are freely available with a spot of cursory Googling. When you say the vaccine(s) did not do "anything positive" that can be "substantiated", are you saying that all the studies are wrong?
With all due respect, your comment that I've quoted is pretty staggering and hard to take seriously.
Hysteria, latent “flu” season (there was nothing in 2019, usually get 20k deaths annually), and very very poor health care decisions in ventilation, stress in elderly patients, end of life drugs put everything into one basket. Health care “professionals” are still human and susceptible to scare mongering and thinking they are seeing something that doesn’t exist. Then there's the vaccines. Studies from the likes of the ONS, NHS England and The Lancet all showed greatly reduced rates of intensive care admissions and deaths in those who had the vaccines. Those studies are freely available with a spot of cursory Googling. When you say the vaccine(s) did not do "anything positive" that can be "substantiated", are you saying that all the studies are wrong?
With all due respect, your comment that I've quoted is pretty staggering and hard to take seriously.
That study was totally debunked at the time, as discussed at the time. “Vaccinated” was 2 weeks after the 2nd dose, so someone admitted to ICU immediately after they received a jab would be classed as “unvaccinated”. The stats on vaccinated vs unvaccinated are unreliable at best because of this. Just look at the VAERS system, it’s enough to indicate there’s an issue.
You are a Covid denier.
You will never admit that you are wrong.
We normally get around 20K flu deaths in the UK. In 2020 there were 73K deaths from Covid. If you don't believe that they were from Covid, then please tell us what these deaths were caused by.
I have been told by many anti vaxxers, that there is no such thing as "long Covid", because Covid never existed.
I have also been told that all deaths and injuries were caused not by Covid (because it didn't exist) but by the vaccinations, despite the fact that the vaccinations did not exist in 2020.
My neighbour who was very fit and in his mid forties has long Covid, which happened before he was vaccinated for the first time.
I (and thousands of others) have had a reaction to the first vaccine, which I initially thought was long Covid, but which I now know came from the Astra Zeneca batch (PV46664) responsible for the largest number of adverse reactions - 8,000 adr's and at least 20 deaths.
I have two relations who are no longer with us, because they died from Covid.
vixen1700 said:
Thanks for that link. As I have found out to my cost, they are not rare side effects. The NHS are in denial about this.https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/641...
r3g said:
Hants PHer said:
Elysium said:
We have disagreed from time to time, but that is what discussion is all about. I am absolutely fine with it and think you have made an important and helpful contribution to this thread.
R3g’s comments about your posts are totally misplaced. But this is someone that has decided all evidence is fake. They have rejected reason, so they can’t be reasoned with, and the conclusions they reach are not reasonable.
At risk of being accused of back slapping, I will add that posts from Elysium and isaldiri have, since early 2020, been interesting, informative and helpful. Well played gentlemen.R3g’s comments about your posts are totally misplaced. But this is someone that has decided all evidence is fake. They have rejected reason, so they can’t be reasoned with, and the conclusions they reach are not reasonable.
As for r3g and jameswillis, I give up. When one references official facts from the likes of the ONS and get a response stating, in effect, that the ONS is lying, one moves beyond the realms of reasonable discussion. To hold the opinion that there was no Covid virus, and that the vaccines did nothing and/or are causing large numbers of deaths in healthy recipients is to express an opinion that is, in my opinion, unhinged.
Why do you repeat utter BS such as this?
I have lost a sister and a father since 2022 and Covid wasn't mentioned on their death certificates, despite the fact that they had both contracted it about a month before they died. One died from Pulmonary Thrombosis/Morbid Obesity and the other General Frailty/Heart Failure/Dementia.
andyA700 said:
r3g said:
Hants PHer said:
Elysium said:
We have disagreed from time to time, but that is what discussion is all about. I am absolutely fine with it and think you have made an important and helpful contribution to this thread.
R3g’s comments about your posts are totally misplaced. But this is someone that has decided all evidence is fake. They have rejected reason, so they can’t be reasoned with, and the conclusions they reach are not reasonable.
At risk of being accused of back slapping, I will add that posts from Elysium and isaldiri have, since early 2020, been interesting, informative and helpful. Well played gentlemen.R3g’s comments about your posts are totally misplaced. But this is someone that has decided all evidence is fake. They have rejected reason, so they can’t be reasoned with, and the conclusions they reach are not reasonable.
As for r3g and jameswillis, I give up. When one references official facts from the likes of the ONS and get a response stating, in effect, that the ONS is lying, one moves beyond the realms of reasonable discussion. To hold the opinion that there was no Covid virus, and that the vaccines did nothing and/or are causing large numbers of deaths in healthy recipients is to express an opinion that is, in my opinion, unhinged.
And both of these are on top of the massive fraud of recording every death as a covid death in 2020/1. Fall of a ladder changing a light bulb and die = died from covid. Died in a motorbike accident = died from covid. Parachute failed to open = died from covid. Natural old age death = died from covid. Definitely seems legit ! /s
Why do you repeat utter BS such as this?
I have lost a sister and a father since 2022 and Covid wasn't mentioned on their death certificates, despite the fact that they had both contracted it about a month before they died. One died from Pulmonary Thrombosis/Morbid Obesity and the other General Frailty/Heart Failure/Dementia.
rodericb said:
Well, when, in 2021 or whenever, you've got a shooting victim in New Zealand and a teenage brain cancer victim in Australia being officially chalked up as deaths from Covid-19 you have to wonder.....
It was happening all over the world, this is no secret and yet again we see people completely in denial.It even saw air time on some of the US mainstream new channels for a while as doctors had gone on record to report that they had been approached by government health officials and told their hospital would receive a payment of $13000 for each death certificate as having died from covid and if it was a ventilator death then that increased to $39000 per person. Of course, it's now on all the "fact-checker" sites so all those doctors from different hospitals across the USA were all clearly lying
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