Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?
Discussion
S366 said:
I used to always vote Conservative, but these days I just dislike all the parties, Reform have pipe dream ideas with a bit of racism mixed in, Labour give some short term benefits but generally hurt in the long term, Conservatives under Rishi appear to have no clear plan, Greens want to take my car away and the Lib Dem’s are just a filler that doesn’t really try.
It’s like picking a pineapple to shove up your behind, they’re all going to hurt you, it’s just a case of choosing which will hurt the least.
I suspect that you have pointed out is the truth of the matter, It’s like picking a pineapple to shove up your behind, they’re all going to hurt you, it’s just a case of choosing which will hurt the least.
For years, many, if not most in the UK, have not been able to vote for the party they think (hope) will do them any good, but only the one, they believe will do `them' the least harm.
Sadly we know that both the main parties are carrying on with this.
Some tribalists still blindly grope in the belief that (this time) `their' party will make everything better, Only reality, and a fair does of actual history has shown us, that this is NOT what happens.
One party favours one group of tribalist, whilst the other party favours the other party's tribalists, They just swap places every few years. but that is the reality of of it.
Pan Pan Pan said:
What business can afford to pay their workers £12.50 a day to get to work in the ULEZ, if they live outside the zone? And that is after tax has been deducted. That is a lot of extra money for a business to find, for no gain whatsoever for the business, in this so called cost of living crises.
A friend, who has two business outlets, one outside the zone, and one just inside, said he has seen customer numbers drop off a cliff, for the shop which is inside the ULEZ. Such that he intends to shut down the one inside the zone. The old case of unforeseen consequences.
Didn’t hear you complain when the original congestion zone was implemented nor when it was expanded to the North/South circular borders. Many workers had to cross the border and had to pay and they adapted and the world didn’t collapse did not fall. Why would employers pay anyway? Mine certainly didn’t and I don’t know many who did. Commuting costs fall generally on the employee as it’s their responsibility to get to work and can choose where to work. What about the LEZ? That has probably more effect on businesses as it affects commercial vehicles and that’s been in for ages. Businesses adapted and coped.A friend, who has two business outlets, one outside the zone, and one just inside, said he has seen customer numbers drop off a cliff, for the shop which is inside the ULEZ. Such that he intends to shut down the one inside the zone. The old case of unforeseen consequences.
This has been in for about a year. People have already adapted or found that their car was compliant after all the scaremongering. The people of London have just voted as well and if ULEZ was such a concern then Hall would have won. The people have ostensibly chosen that they want ULEZ so democracy has spoken. Don’t like it? Well, you should have mobilised your vote better.
valiant said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
What business can afford to pay their workers £12.50 a day to get to work in the ULEZ, if they live outside the zone? And that is after tax has been deducted. That is a lot of extra money for a business to find, for no gain whatsoever for the business, in this so called cost of living crises.
A friend, who has two business outlets, one outside the zone, and one just inside, said he has seen customer numbers drop off a cliff, for the shop which is inside the ULEZ. Such that he intends to shut down the one inside the zone. The old case of unforeseen consequences.
Didn’t hear you complain when the original congestion zone was implemented nor when it was expanded to the North/South circular borders. Many workers had to cross the border and had to pay and they adapted and the world didn’t collapse did not fall. Why would employers pay anyway? Mine certainly didn’t and I don’t know many who did. Commuting costs fall generally on the employee as it’s their responsibility to get to work and can choose where to work. A friend, who has two business outlets, one outside the zone, and one just inside, said he has seen customer numbers drop off a cliff, for the shop which is inside the ULEZ. Such that he intends to shut down the one inside the zone. The old case of unforeseen consequences.
This has been in for about a year. People have already adapted or found that their car was compliant after all the scaremongering. The people of London have just voted as well and if ULEZ was such a concern then Hall would have won. The people have ostensibly chosen that they want ULEZ so democracy has spoken. Don’t like it? Well, you should have mobilised your vote better.
As for commuting costs falling on the employee, how do you think they feel about having to pay an extra £12.50 day out of their taxed income, for what exactly? Especially during this so called `cost of living' crises.
Khan is doing exactly what many local authorities have been doing, making it much more time consuming, expensive and unpleasant for people to get into town centres, and then wondering why all the shops in the town centre were going out of business and closing down, because people were no longer willing to be used as cash cows by greedy local authorities.
Many might also believe that having already paid the government to use their vehicles on the countries roads. The application of a so called congestion charge on top, is just blatant money grabbing by unscrupulous mayors and councils.
captain_cynic said:
My 07 plate 3L Merc is ULEZ compliant. I can drive it onto the other side of the M25 with impunity.
Just how many people do these pearl clutchers think are going to be driving non compliant cars?
It has already been found that Khans ULEZ, has had virtually no effect on air quality in London (Not least because the air over London has this nasty habit of moving around, and not just hovering stationary over the city).Just how many people do these pearl clutchers think are going to be driving non compliant cars?
It is just a money grabbing scam, to prop up the loss making, virtually bankrupt TfL.
S600BSB said:
Slightly concerned that having performed poorly in the locals, Reform UK might scale back their GE efforts? Or at least their funders might. Really looking to them to get 10-15% of votes.
Nah, Tice reckons they're now the natural challenger to Labour. No way are they scaling anything back.We're heading for a Labour landslide followed by a decade at least of the Tories and Reform scrabbling around in the dirt for the culture war loon 15%
smn159 said:
S600BSB said:
Slightly concerned that having performed poorly in the locals, Reform UK might scale back their GE efforts? Or at least their funders might. Really looking to them to get 10-15% of votes.
Nah, Tice reckons they're now the natural challenger to Labour. No way are they scaling anything back.We're heading for a Labour landslide followed by a decade at least of the Tories and Reform scrabbling around in the dirt for the culture war loon 15%
And so we will continue with ongoing farce, that is the UK political scene with tribalists, STILL believing that when `their' party gets in it will all be better. Clue! It will not.
valiant said:
Didn’t hear you complain when the original congestion zone was implemented nor when it was expanded to the North/South circular borders.
It is perfectly possible to think that one scheme to control congestion or air pollution is justified by the extent of the problem it addresses and the availability of alternatives to those affected while another is not. Pan Pan Pan said:
Labour got a 150+ seat majority when they last got into No10. Didn't stop them from being being soundly kicked out in the last GE, did it?
And so we will continue with ongoing farce, that is the UK political scene with tribalists, STILL believing that when `their' party gets in it will all be better. Clue! It will not.
You should definitely vote Reform and encourage all of your friends to do so And so we will continue with ongoing farce, that is the UK political scene with tribalists, STILL believing that when `their' party gets in it will all be better. Clue! It will not.
Pan Pan Pan said:
captain_cynic said:
My 07 plate 3L Merc is ULEZ compliant. I can drive it onto the other side of the M25 with impunity.
Just how many people do these pearl clutchers think are going to be driving non compliant cars?
It has already been found that Khans ULEZ, has had virtually no effect on air quality in London (Not least because the air over London has this nasty habit of moving around, and not just hovering stationary over the city).Just how many people do these pearl clutchers think are going to be driving non compliant cars?
It is just a money grabbing scam, to prop up the loss making, virtually bankrupt TfL.
How many people do you think own non compliant cars?
Also you're wrong and it's a really poor attempt to avoid admitting you made something up.
So how many people do you think need to drive into London with non compliant cars considering every Euro4 petrol like my 15 yr old 3L Mercedes is still complaint?
Pan Pan Pan said:
It has already been found that Khans ULEZ, has had virtually no effect on air quality in London (Not least because the air over London has this nasty habit of moving around, and not just hovering stationary over the city).
It is just a money grabbing scam, to prop up the loss making, virtually bankrupt TfL.
Loss making?It is just a money grabbing scam, to prop up the loss making, virtually bankrupt TfL.
Produced a £160m surplus last year.
Carries a lot of debt admittedly but some will be Crossrail and some will be Covid related (TfL didn’t shut down its operations during the pandemic) and has government covid support loans to pay back (which National Rail didn’t receive, they got bailed out on day one. TfL had to run down its reserves and then go cap on hand for help. Politics, eh?)
Surprise surprise, PPP is wrong again. This is what happens when your entire world view comes from the right wing press & you're an angry little bear to start with. Incidentally, the second link is out of date but still shows measurable improvements in the early days of Ulez.
https://news.sky.com/story/londons-low-emission-zo...
https://www.lse.ac.uk/granthaminstitute/news/the-t...
https://news.sky.com/story/londons-low-emission-zo...
https://www.lse.ac.uk/granthaminstitute/news/the-t...
President Merkin said:
Surprise surprise, PPP is wrong again. This is what happens when your entire world view comes from the right wing press & you're an angry little bear to start with. Incidentally, the second link is out of date but still shows measurable improvements in the early days of Ulez.
https://news.sky.com/story/londons-low-emission-zo...
https://www.lse.ac.uk/granthaminstitute/news/the-t...
The air quality in the outer region has not shown any improvements (and it can't - just look at the covid era data) . Inner area is unlikely to be effected by the extension as again the covid era data shows. The original ulez did help - the extension can't help.https://news.sky.com/story/londons-low-emission-zo...
https://www.lse.ac.uk/granthaminstitute/news/the-t...
I suspect you're making that up but can't be arsed to look for data, which is your obligation anyway but nevertheless:
Pan Pan Pan said:
It has already been found that Khans ULEZ, has had virtually no effect on air quality in London.
is nonsense from a man with a long record of posting nonsense & anyway, what has any of this to do with Reform UK (Ltd)?President Merkin said:
Making it up......
Just using the data from the expansion justification papers and extrapolating the information gleaned from data during the low traffic periods during covid shutdowns.There is a clear signal in inner area data but no such signal in the outer area. So even if outer area dropped traffic rates to covid lockdown levels there is no signal to work from. QED
captain_cynic said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
captain_cynic said:
My 07 plate 3L Merc is ULEZ compliant. I can drive it onto the other side of the M25 with impunity.
Just how many people do these pearl clutchers think are going to be driving non compliant cars?
It has already been found that Khans ULEZ, has had virtually no effect on air quality in London (Not least because the air over London has this nasty habit of moving around, and not just hovering stationary over the city).Just how many people do these pearl clutchers think are going to be driving non compliant cars?
It is just a money grabbing scam, to prop up the loss making, virtually bankrupt TfL.
How many people do you think own non compliant cars?
Also you're wrong and it's a really poor attempt to avoid admitting you made something up.
So how many people do you think need to drive into London with non compliant cars considering every Euro4 petrol like my 15 yr old 3L Mercedes is still complaint?
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