Modern CH boilers - annual replacement?
Discussion
My house is 30 years old this year.
We have lived here for 26 of them. It was unoccupied for the first year after completion.
The original boiler (old style semi-combi before that phrase became common) just about survived for 13 years but not without some serious expenses along the way. The replacement (new fangled at the time condensing unit) lasted 9 years (with major work along the way) before a heat exchanger gave way and flooded everywhere. Its replacement, I direct update to the second one for a quick and easy (yep, uh huh) 'swap' took about 2 years to get 'right', had a number of part swaps under warranty, a coupld of major and expensive parts changed out of warranty about 2 years ago and now is leaking water again. Ironically it stopped working wiht a thermistor fault last Tuesday evening and an engineer replaced that (a very expensive little component given the price of the call out) and took the opportunity to change the burner cover plate seal (presumably a design issue) at the same time.
Noting some rust and mentioning the previous problems I asked him how it all looked. "Fine" he said. 24 hours later on a Friday night (why is it always at the start of a weekend?) the thing fails again this time with water leaking from the burner unit even when it is running.
I suspect a large repair quote. I would rather change the unit for a different make.
However I suspect that all of the modern units offer much the same expensive fragility Am I right?
Should I just budget to change the thing every 2 or 3 years.
And how is this 'green' engineering being green when it costs so much in repairs and, with half the life of older units or even less than that, implies that manufacturing materials and energy consumotion is likely greater than it used to be.
Is anyone else having similar problems?
Does anyone have a solid recommendation for a proven product that won't give up trying as soon as it is asked to do what it has been designed to do?
Grant
We have lived here for 26 of them. It was unoccupied for the first year after completion.
The original boiler (old style semi-combi before that phrase became common) just about survived for 13 years but not without some serious expenses along the way. The replacement (new fangled at the time condensing unit) lasted 9 years (with major work along the way) before a heat exchanger gave way and flooded everywhere. Its replacement, I direct update to the second one for a quick and easy (yep, uh huh) 'swap' took about 2 years to get 'right', had a number of part swaps under warranty, a coupld of major and expensive parts changed out of warranty about 2 years ago and now is leaking water again. Ironically it stopped working wiht a thermistor fault last Tuesday evening and an engineer replaced that (a very expensive little component given the price of the call out) and took the opportunity to change the burner cover plate seal (presumably a design issue) at the same time.
Noting some rust and mentioning the previous problems I asked him how it all looked. "Fine" he said. 24 hours later on a Friday night (why is it always at the start of a weekend?) the thing fails again this time with water leaking from the burner unit even when it is running.
I suspect a large repair quote. I would rather change the unit for a different make.
However I suspect that all of the modern units offer much the same expensive fragility Am I right?
Should I just budget to change the thing every 2 or 3 years.
And how is this 'green' engineering being green when it costs so much in repairs and, with half the life of older units or even less than that, implies that manufacturing materials and energy consumotion is likely greater than it used to be.
Is anyone else having similar problems?
Does anyone have a solid recommendation for a proven product that won't give up trying as soon as it is asked to do what it has been designed to do?
Grant
I had a similer problems with a Potterton boiler, high end/expensive condensing one new out the box that I struggled with for three years, every time someone had a bath thing would trip out and the seal would blow, 4 plumbers later and was advised that it it was a known fault, they rushed out a new model to comply with new regs (since discontinued boiler), I nicely questioned one of the guys in the customer services who admitted it was a known fault, so I asked for a discount on a new one but then they wheeled out the top backroom c/service who denied any such thing and offered nothing-Ive since had a new different brand boiler in and no no faults running for six months but this time really did my homework on selecting brand.
My old is lying unloved in the garage/ok for heating and showers only/big monster cost £1,800 unfitted can be had for £100.
My old is lying unloved in the garage/ok for heating and showers only/big monster cost £1,800 unfitted can be had for £100.
Edited by snotsnfarts on Sunday 8th March 08:24
I wonder how difficult it would be to make your own indestructable boiler... 
What I mean is making the heat exchanger from high grade materials, tig welded together rather than sloppy soldering or whatever they do to them, gas fittings that would do for a gas works, mechatronics run from an old but rugged 486dx pc that won't die with software running on DOS, etc.
It's shameful really isn't it? I don't know anyone who asn't has problems with their boiler, yet we all put up with it. We don't seem to accept such shoddy products with anything else, with the possible exception of MS Windows.
What I mean is making the heat exchanger from high grade materials, tig welded together rather than sloppy soldering or whatever they do to them, gas fittings that would do for a gas works, mechatronics run from an old but rugged 486dx pc that won't die with software running on DOS, etc.
It's shameful really isn't it? I don't know anyone who asn't has problems with their boiler, yet we all put up with it. We don't seem to accept such shoddy products with anything else, with the possible exception of MS Windows.
What makes have you had fitted in the past?. In general you get what you pay for and Vaillant are the best followed by worcester. Trade price on a Vaillant is between £950-1200 but you can buy a crap one (Ravenheat/Biasi) from B&Q for £400 if you want to throw it away every 2-3 years?.
If its that uneliable you need British Gas boiler cover! Its not the cheapest option out there but they will happily come and replace all the bits year on year for what is effectively a modest charge.
Our Ariston Combi boiler was so unreliable my wife knew how all the British Gas engineers took their tea and coffee, and in the end used to ask for one by name, purely because when he fixed it, it stayed fixed for longer!
It was 3 years old when we moved in here and in the 4 years we had it every single part was changed at least once, and most twice or 3 times. When the heat exchanbger wetn for the second time one of the engineers suggested we should have the boiler replaced, but the quote from BG was £3k so we said no thanks.
When it went 18 months lare and our favourite engineer was lookingat it he asked why we hadn't had it replaced 18 months ago?
"Whats the point" we said "you wanted £3k to relace it and we currently pay you £150pa to come and fix it every month, the maths don't stack up!"
He said thats ridiculous, I reckon if I went to the office and had a whip round we'd all chip in to pay for it to save us coming out to it so often! Its costing us so much to fix it we'd be better off paying to give you a new one. Hold on I'll make a call.
Came back offering to install a Worcester Bosch boiler for £1,200 all in, a figure we couldn't beat.
So we now have a Worcester Bosch was has so far worked faultlessly.
Our Ariston Combi boiler was so unreliable my wife knew how all the British Gas engineers took their tea and coffee, and in the end used to ask for one by name, purely because when he fixed it, it stayed fixed for longer!
It was 3 years old when we moved in here and in the 4 years we had it every single part was changed at least once, and most twice or 3 times. When the heat exchanbger wetn for the second time one of the engineers suggested we should have the boiler replaced, but the quote from BG was £3k so we said no thanks.
When it went 18 months lare and our favourite engineer was lookingat it he asked why we hadn't had it replaced 18 months ago?
"Whats the point" we said "you wanted £3k to relace it and we currently pay you £150pa to come and fix it every month, the maths don't stack up!"
He said thats ridiculous, I reckon if I went to the office and had a whip round we'd all chip in to pay for it to save us coming out to it so often! Its costing us so much to fix it we'd be better off paying to give you a new one. Hold on I'll make a call.
Came back offering to install a Worcester Bosch boiler for £1,200 all in, a figure we couldn't beat.
So we now have a Worcester Bosch was has so far worked faultlessly.
I've fitted hundreds of glowworm in all the houses we have built and I even replaced mine at home with one. Never really any problems. I would suggest most will start dying after 10-15 years. I would expect at least 5 years without having to touch it.
That said the Baxi in the office is s
t. And has cost a fortune as soon as the warrenty ran out.
That said the Baxi in the office is s
t. And has cost a fortune as soon as the warrenty ran out.snotsnfarts said:
Ive since had a new different brand boiler in and no no faults running for six months but this time really did my homework on selecting
+1 for Worcestor Bosch,sorry forgot to say that my new "works a treat" boiler is a worcester, will never use one of those potterton-baxi sh**e again.Edited by snotsnfarts on Sunday 8th March 08:26
fish said:
I've fitted hundreds of glowworm in all the houses we have built and I even replaced mine at home with one. Never really any problems.
You can't have fitted any Microns then. We fitted maybe 400 and we had problems with the Pektron PCB on loads of them. The current Band 'A's are better, but the Band 'B's are still a bit grim. The usual suspects above are certainly to be avoided in my opinion:
Biasi,
Ravenheat,
Alpha,
but I wouldn't rule out Halstead and Main (a Potteron-Baxi product) as good value for money.
(Not Halstead's i-Heat
)I also wouldn't automatically assume Worcester or Vaillant will give you a trouble free life!!!!
snotsnfarts said:
snotsnfarts said:
Ive since had a new different brand boiler in and no no faults running for six months but this time really did my homework on selecting
+1 for Worcestor BoschTouching wood now ive said that.......
Stupid question, but are people getting them "serviced" annually?
I had a potterton fitted a few years ago in our old house and it never missed a beat in three years, it got serviced each year when it was due. That was installed by British Gas (expensive way of doing things) but it also had the "we will come out and fix anything that goes wrong within 24 hours" cover.
I had a potterton fitted a few years ago in our old house and it never missed a beat in three years, it got serviced each year when it was due. That was installed by British Gas (expensive way of doing things) but it also had the "we will come out and fix anything that goes wrong within 24 hours" cover.
We have the British Gas Homecare cover, and they do an annual inspection and cover repairs which is good. We've not used the heating repair, but we've had them out for plumbing repairs around 5 times (mostly blocked pipes from waste disposal/toilet) - well worth it to get a good plumber the next day with no sucking through teeth at the work to be done.
BTW we have a Potterton something or other boiler - new in new house 7 years ago and not a peep from it - it just works.
BTW we have a Potterton something or other boiler - new in new house 7 years ago and not a peep from it - it just works.
My 1971 Potterton C40/12 works fine. Okay it's inefficient but it's right next to me as I type and there's no need for a radiator in this room because the 'heat loss' makes the room warm enough without it. If I replaced it with a new efficient boiler the payback time would exceed the life of both the boiler and me!
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