Gallbladder - keep or remove

Gallbladder - keep or remove

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Sparkyhd

Original Poster:

1,792 posts

96 months

Monday 8th January 2018
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Surgery for the removal of my gallbladder is tomorrow.

I haven't had any symptoms for 4 months so I'm a bit undecided whether surgery is required or a good idea.

Has my gallbladder sorted itself out due to my improved diet and therefore there's only a potential downside to surgery, like ongoing bile issues or death on the operating table?

Or is my gallbladder like an unexploded bomb, lulling me into a false sense of security, but ready to explode at the most inconvenient time when I'm a bit older and less able to handle surgery?

Should I be raising this here or talking to a consultant?

prand

5,916 posts

197 months

Monday 8th January 2018
quotequote all
Sparkyhd said:
Surgery for the removal of my gallbladder is tomorrow.

I haven't had any symptoms for 4 months so I'm a bit undecided whether surgery is required or a good idea.

Has my gallbladder sorted itself out due to my improved diet and therefore there's only a potential downside to surgery, like ongoing bile issues or death on the operating table?

Or is my gallbladder like an unexploded bomb, lulling me into a false sense of security, but ready to explode at the most inconvenient time when I'm a bit older and less able to handle surgery?

Should I be raising this here or talking to a consultant?
Answer is probably obvious (speak to the doctor ya dummy!), though now you're booked in you may as well have it done, you'd be unlikely to suffer issues after the operation, and can carry on life as normal without a gall bladder.

My miserable fat father in law suffered terribly from gall stones. He was advised to go onto a low fat/no alcohol diet for a few months before they'd operate. He followed this carefully, and gave up smoking for this period too. He lost a tonne of weight, became much more mobile and generally started looking great, even became less of a grumpy old git.

Once he had the operation, he gleefully went "Woohoo, doc says I can eat what I like now" and went back to triple decker egg and bacon sandwiches for breakfast, 20 fags a day, and a bottle of brandy a night and put all the weight he'd lost back on.

He's suffered no ill effects since, beyond turning back into a miserable, semi-immobile berstad, mores the pity...

Sparkyhd

Original Poster:

1,792 posts

96 months

Wednesday 10th January 2018
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Went ahead with the surgery. Had a 15 minute discussion with the surgeon beforehand hand to go through the pros and cons. Unfortunately, like most professionals, they won't decide for you even though they're the experts but end with "at the end of the day it's your choice".

After 5 minutes deliberation I decided to go with it.

Out the same day and now 24 hours later I'm surprised how little discomfort I'm feeling. Took 12 hours to pass urine which was getting me a bit worried but all flowing nicely now.

The gallbladder has gone off to the lab but if the report is inconclusive only the next few months and years will confirm if I've made the right decision.

CubanPete

3,630 posts

189 months

Wednesday 10th January 2018
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OH had hers removed after a bout of pancreatitis.

Seemed to answer a lot of historic issues that had been put down to 'must have eaten something funny'. Even the ambulance crew said that if it wasn't for her having recently given birth they would have sent her home with some paracetamol, with the diagnosis of 'passing out through pain'!

Doesn't seem to have affected her diet in any way, though we have never eaten particularly unhealthily. She say she feels 'cleaner inside'. Op istelf was pretty straightforward.

gasman712

55 posts

139 months

Wednesday 10th January 2018
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Sparkyhd said:
Unfortunately, like most professionals, they won't decide for you even though they're the experts but end with "at the end of the day it's your choice".
Do you realise that the GMC activley promote this approach? It is considered best practise to inform the patient and allow them to decide for themselves. The use of a paternalistic "doctor knows best" approach went out the door couple of decades ago and subsequently there is the Montogomery ruling which means you have to be informed and make the decision yourself.

Sparkyhd

Original Poster:

1,792 posts

96 months

Wednesday 10th January 2018
quotequote all
gasman712 said:
Do you realise that the GMC activley promote this approach? It is considered best practise to inform the patient and allow them to decide for themselves. The use of a paternalistic "doctor knows best" approach went out the door couple of decades ago and subsequently there is the Montogomery ruling which means you have to be informed and make the decision yourself.
Well I get that but the professional has more experience of cases so should be able to say "on balance I'd do x but ultimately it's up to you". Give a bit of guidance.

Also I think doctors are too quick to choose procedures as a solution. If I go into Kwik Fit and ask if my tyres need changing they'll likely say yes, so I guess a surgeon is going to want to perform surgery.

Patch1875

4,896 posts

133 months

Friday 10th August 2018
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Patch1875 said:
QuickQuack said:
If you have confirmed stones, there's no advantage in leaving the fall bladder in unless you're a high anaesthetic or surgical risk. Since you sounds like you're in good health, I'd suggest getting on with it. One of the risks of leaving the stones in situ is developing pancreatitis which, even in this day and age, can be fatal even if it looks like mild case.

PS for others. Pain from gallstones can be in the chest or the abdomen or both although the commonest is right upper abdomen. However, it can be felt in the central abdomen in some. Not everyone has the same type of pain in the same place. The heart and the gallbladder are on the opposite sides of the body, heart to the left and the gallbladder to the right. Gallstone pain causing central chest pain is relatively unusual and a heart attack causing right sided chest pain is exceptionally rare. They're not commonly confused, although in rare cases they can be. Severe indigestion which can cause central abdominal and central chest pain is very common though and this is the classical diagnosis that's confused with a heart attack.
What about upper back pain between the shoulder blades which feels it radiates through to the chest? I have a large gallstone apparently but suffer from upper back pain that physio doesn't work, I really can't tell if the pain is muscular, my spine or something else MRI came back clear.
Thread revival!

Decided to go back to docs as I starting to ‘feel’ something around the gallbladder area, certainly not very painful but a tender swollen feeling noticeable a while after eating and also when I was hungry.

Doc agreed worth checking with the gallstone being picked up few years earlier after an ultrasound for another issue.

Got an appointment with a Bupa consultant a few days ago his initial thoughts was that it wasn’t the gallbladder but possibly a bacterial issue but wanted to do another ultrasound to see what the status of the stone was.

So off I went to the ultrasound dept thinking nothing new was going to be found but turns out my gallbladder is contracted. I was asked when I last ate something(5 hours previous) so now awaiting the official verdict from the consultant hopefully on Monday as he was off for a few days after he seen me.






crankedup

25,764 posts

244 months

Saturday 11th August 2018
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Timely thread revival, I mentioned last week in a separate thread that I was hospitalised whilst on holiday. Transpired to be gall bladder problem, hospital stabilised and dealt with my pain o er a four day period, USS showed gall bladder infection & stone.
Next month I have a consultation appointment with my local hospital, I have decided that given an option I will request the gall bladder be removed. I am turned 67 years now and that plays a big part in my decision, no way do I want a repeat performance due to my gall bladder.
Thankfully we were on a UK holiday, not in asia as my wife keeps pestering me with. rolleyes

gl20

1,123 posts

150 months

Friday 28th August 2020
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Thread revival as the OP (way back) was in same predicament as me. Background is:

- Late 2018: First attack in Hong Kong on business. Local advice was gallbladder out when I get home. GP back home said don't bother. Then had anorher attack (they've always come in pairs) and went private for consultation. They said 50:50 / up to you if you want removal. So I let it lie
- Early 2019 : A pair of attacks, let it lie
- Late 2019 : A pair of attacks much more painful, booked in for March 2020 for removal.

That got cancelled due to COVID, out of the blue I received a letter to say I'm booked in for this coming Friday - one week away. I've had no attacks since late 2019 and so, like the OP, was wondering if it was worth it. The last attack wasn't nice but probably not as bad as others seem to get.

Based on this thread, other reading, I think I'm going to go ahead on the premise it could always strike more severely in the future.

FWIW - 5'10'', 69kg, cycle about 4k miles per year. Eat healthily as the wife doesn't like red meat etc. So if the squits problem post op is mostly around fatty food (if it happens at all) then I should be OK (although I do like the occasional curry!)

OP - If you happen to see this, would be interested in how things panned out given your thinking was so similar to mine.

Any other thoughts welcome

powling

63 posts

116 months

Saturday 29th August 2020
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My wife had hers removed about 8 weeks ago.

Had previously had a few attacks and NHS advised that gall bladder removal was required after various scans etc. Interestingly when you start telling people that you’ve had it removed etc... lots of people seem to be in same position.

My wife had hers removed key hole surgery. Was meant to be in and out in a day but spent overnight due to some discomfort afterwards. She had a few days of discomfort but now all back to normal. In fact the only real issue she had was overdoing things when she kind of forgot that she’d had it done (ie gardening etc).

I was expecting her to have to change diet, but nothing advised and not symptoms since. She would regularly suffer from
a gurgling ‘washing machine’ tummy in the evening, but that’s all disappeared as well.


gl20

1,123 posts

150 months

Saturday 29th August 2020
quotequote all
powling said:
My wife had hers removed about 8 weeks ago.

Had previously had a few attacks and NHS advised that gall bladder removal was required after various scans etc. Interestingly when you start telling people that you’ve had it removed etc... lots of people seem to be in same position.

My wife had hers removed key hole surgery. Was meant to be in and out in a day but spent overnight due to some discomfort afterwards. She had a few days of discomfort but now all back to normal. In fact the only real issue she had was overdoing things when she kind of forgot that she’d had it done (ie gardening etc).

I was expecting her to have to change diet, but nothing advised and not symptoms since. She would regularly suffer from
a gurgling ‘washing machine’ tummy in the evening, but that’s all disappeared as well.
Thanks for sharing and good to hear. Mine is on a Friday (and is keyhole too) and was hoping to be able to carry on with work more or less from the Monday on the premise I work from home (did so even pre Covid) and ‘work’ means tapping away on the laptop. Based on your wife’s experience, does that sound realistic?

Wacky Racer

38,237 posts

248 months

Saturday 29th August 2020
quotequote all
I was advised to have my gall bladder out four years ago due to intense pain, (Sludge build up)

I left it saying I'll see how I go....

Two years ago the pain came back which was treated with a course of antibiotics.....

Again, I put it off....

Last year after intense pain I agreed to have it taken out.

In in the morning, out by 3pm........three days off work resting......never had any trouble since.

Keyhole surgery, three tiny scars you hardly notice.

Operation here:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tepFfxTaZw

biggrin



Deep Thought

35,907 posts

198 months

Saturday 29th August 2020
quotequote all
gl20 said:
powling said:
My wife had hers removed about 8 weeks ago.

Had previously had a few attacks and NHS advised that gall bladder removal was required after various scans etc. Interestingly when you start telling people that you’ve had it removed etc... lots of people seem to be in same position.

My wife had hers removed key hole surgery. Was meant to be in and out in a day but spent overnight due to some discomfort afterwards. She had a few days of discomfort but now all back to normal. In fact the only real issue she had was overdoing things when she kind of forgot that she’d had it done (ie gardening etc).

I was expecting her to have to change diet, but nothing advised and not symptoms since. She would regularly suffer from
a gurgling ‘washing machine’ tummy in the evening, but that’s all disappeared as well.
Thanks for sharing and good to hear. Mine is on a Friday (and is keyhole too) and was hoping to be able to carry on with work more or less from the Monday on the premise I work from home (did so even pre Covid) and ‘work’ means tapping away on the laptop. Based on your wife’s experience, does that sound realistic?
I had mine out a few years back via keyhole on a Thursday, so took the Thursday and the Friday off work. Worked from home the following week no issues at all then was back commuting and in the office the following week.

Energy levels will be very low - i was really surprised how little energy i had for commuting the week after, given how fine i otherwise felt but apparently your body diverts all the energy to healing the wound of an operation.

Absolutely no regrets getting it done.

gl20

1,123 posts

150 months

Saturday 29th August 2020
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Appreciate all the comments. Very encouraging.
May skip the video though!

Deep Thought

35,907 posts

198 months

Saturday 29th August 2020
quotequote all
gl20 said:
Appreciate all the comments. Very encouraging.
May skip the video though!
If its any consolation i was going down to theatre at around 14:30 and was back up from recovery, on to the ward and leaving the hospital by 19:00 under my own steam.

You're stiff in that area for a few days as you dont want to be pulling on fresh stitches but i was up and about no problem. The only thing i wasnt expecting was the lack of energy in my first week back at work, but then my commute was Northern Ireland to Manchester for the week.

knitware

1,473 posts

194 months

Sunday 30th August 2020
quotequote all
gl20 said:
Thanks for sharing and good to hear. Mine is on a Friday (and is keyhole too) and was hoping to be able to carry on with work more or less from the Monday on the premise I work from home (did so even pre Covid) and ‘work’ means tapping away on the laptop. Based on your wife’s experience, does that sound realistic?
Gallbladder, when it's buggered it hurts doesn't it, I haven't felt a pain like it, so much so it caused sweats and I was doubled over then the pain suddenly disappears bringing relief, until next time...

I had mine out when I was 40, quite unusual for a male to suffer so young, the consultant 'said take it out now or wait, but eventually it needs to be removed', so out it went.

I had it out the following week, he did a great job. In hospital, out the next day, hurt like hell for a couple of days and as I only got basic sick pay I was back at work within the week, I could have done with a couple of weeks off. You should be ok at home tapping away at a keyboard after a few days, take the Monday off!

I have suffered with other symptoms since having it out, loose stools and some stomach discomfort and a condition where, depending on the food I eat, after I have had a meal I immediately get diarrhea, this is only occasionally though and usually if I skip a meal, build up of bile?

Anyway, good luck, it certainly is worth it!

I'm sure I have read that if man were to travel into space then it would be advisable to get rid of our troublesome body bits before travel which were once useful but now cause problems, tonsils, gallbladder and appendix, could be others too?

Ridealong

542 posts

71 months

Monday 31st August 2020
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I'm a male, 48 years old, 72 kg (slightly overweight), previous blood pressure test result was "elevated".

Back in the beging of May after 5 evenings/nights of excruciating abdominal pains (1st evening meal pizza, 2nd evening meal spaghetti bolognaise, then marmite on toast for the next 3 evenings) I made my way to the hospital at 5:30 in the morning using public transport.

I got there at 6am and was asked to dispose of my face mask and they gave me a new one, whilst waiting for a doctor the pain started to soften but the right to centre of my abdomen was a bit tender.

I didn't get seen by a doctor in A&E until 7:30am (other emergencies, Covid-19 and changed of shifts), they took my blood and urine for tests and waited for the results to come back, also they offered me paracetamol which I accepted.

Around 9:30am I was told I was booked in for an ultra scan at 12pm, after the scan I was informed it had gall stones and that my gall bladder had polyps.

The doctor prescribe a weeks worth of pain killers (co-dydramol) and told me to await a letter in the post for the operation to remove my gall bladder, I left the hospital around 1:50pm.

I've not had a letter yet, nor the same pain since, but have been in pain a couple of times as well as upset stomachs and a lot of gas in the following week!

I bought some co-codamol when my co-dydramol ran out, I've been a bit more careful with my diet with almost no alcohol, but have had the odd burger, chips and doner kebab on a few occasions, one big drinking day on FA Cup final day with no side effects the day after.

I'm not really worried about the operation as my late dad had gall stones (bad diet) which was removed in the early 1980's and he had the old procedure, one week stay in hospital ending up with a 6" scar across his stomach, in 1991 my manager had gall stones and he only had 3 days off work thanks to keyhole surgery.

Deep Thought

35,907 posts

198 months

Monday 31st August 2020
quotequote all
Ridealong said:
I'm a male, 48 years old, 72 kg (slightly overweight), previous blood pressure test result was "elevated".

Back in the beging of May after 5 evenings/nights of excruciating abdominal pains (1st evening meal pizza, 2nd evening meal spaghetti bolognaise, then marmite on toast for the next 3 evenings) I made my way to the hospital at 5:30 in the morning using public transport.

I got there at 6am and was asked to dispose of my face mask and they gave me a new one, whilst waiting for a doctor the pain started to soften but the right to centre of my abdomen was a bit tender.

I didn't get seen by a doctor in A&E until 7:30am (other emergencies, Covid-19 and changed of shifts), they took my blood and urine for tests and waited for the results to come back, also they offered me paracetamol which I accepted.

Around 9:30am I was told I was booked in for an ultra scan at 12pm, after the scan I was informed it had gall stones and that my gall bladder had polyps.

The doctor prescribe a weeks worth of pain killers (co-dydramol) and told me to await a letter in the post for the operation to remove my gall bladder, I left the hospital around 1:50pm.

I've not had a letter yet, nor the same pain since, but have been in pain a couple of times as well as upset stomachs and a lot of gas in the following week!

I bought some co-codamol when my co-dydramol ran out, I've been a bit more careful with my diet with almost no alcohol, but have had the odd burger, chips and doner kebab on a few occasions, one big drinking day on FA Cup final day with no side effects the day after.

I'm not really worried about the operation as my late dad had gall stones (bad diet) which was removed in the early 1980's and he had the old procedure, one week stay in hospital ending up with a 6" scar across his stomach, in 1991 my manager had gall stones and he only had 3 days off work thanks to keyhole surgery.
You can control it with diet in the meantime. Be aware though that just because you "get away with" a particular meal one time doesnt mean you will next time. Things like Pizza definitely set it off for me, and yes, avoid alcohol in the meantime.

My operation date took around 18 months to come through. Not sure what the lead time is like generally now.

ReaperCushions

6,066 posts

185 months

Monday 31st August 2020
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I had mine out at about 30 years old, which is very very young. As per above, I went private and was back home within 24 hours with 3 keyhole scars.

No side effects at all since. Frankly I wish there had been some as it may have focused my diet a bit more. I pretty much went back to the same old habits as before as fatty foods gave me no ill effects.


bucksmanuk

2,311 posts

171 months

Tuesday 1st September 2020
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2010 - I was 45, and had problems with diet due to the 4 years previous being on expense paid jollies and living well in hotels.

I had bouts of pain getting worse each time, and as above, in distinct sessions, 2 or 3 days apart and then a gap of 3-4 weeks and then repeat. Anything with fat in it set me off big style. The last bout - the pain was incredible, off to the GP in the morning for “a tablet a day and please go away”. 3 p.m. I was writhing around on the floor in agony. Off back to the GP for a proper examination this time, and I found myself in Stoke Mandeville A&E 3 hours later. 24 hours later 3 substantial gall stones diagnosed, and a “those need taking out mate”.

3 weeks later I was in Wycombe for gall balder removal, which, as those above have mentioned, is key hole and a 24 hour stay and a taxi home. Well….. It is for 99% of patients, for 1 % it’s the old fashioned great-big-scar-across-the-belly time. You guessed it, over 30 staples, 6 days in hospital and a month off work.

I had to be very careful with my diet for about 12 months, no booze, and a slip up on the fatty food (especially cheese) and I could fart for Britain.

After 2 years, it was back to normal, but I do still get caught out every now and again, and have a rough evening, especially after a rich curry. I have to watch beer consumption, gluten free only; local real ale place does plenty that suit luckily. If I don’t, oh boy - do I know about it. Red wine, not an issue. Gaviscon is my friend.

Every now and again, I get real aches in my stomach almost exactly where the scar is, especially if I’ve been sat in a chair in one position for any period of time. My sister (ex nurse) said these are adhesions, reasonably common, and just to carry on with life. I have no idea if this is the case or not.