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cris9964
154 posts
50 months
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gck303 said: If you don't like old people on the road? Take the train. Simple as that. I have to now, to get to work. It's costing me an extra £3600 per annum over the price of running and parking the bike....
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julian64
9,879 posts
124 months
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PaulMoor said: gck303 said: There will come a day when you, and I, are those 'doddering old biddies'. I hope that no one to carry political favour tries to take our right away.
To anyone who is feeling that older drivers should be forcibly removed from the road, I hope that you one day have your license removed for the very excuse you are saying are 'valid reasons'.
If you don't like old people on the road? Take the train. Simple as that. So noone should loose there licence no matter how unsafe they are? Unsafe people should be off the road. Elderly doesn't equal unsafe. Your link quoted earlier is another ill informed opinion. The only link I can find to the statistics regarding driver safety and age, were american crash statistics showing the most likely people to die on the road were the 15-24 age group and the over 75. The theory behind this was the recklessness of the 15-24 age group and the relative frailty of the over 75s. If you want to age assess driving you should start it on the 15-24 and >75. However IMHO the whole thread is anecdotal rubbish. If you want a sensible discussion about targeting retests for the most appropriate to benefit, you should insist on a re-test for anyone involved in an accident. Doing this would get the tests to the people who really needed them.
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G4HKS
2,485 posts
89 months
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Rumblestripe said: I'm really sorry to hear about your mother, Alzheimer's is a terrible horrible thing to endure.
But, when my Uncle was going the same way, we took his keys off him. His Doctor told him to stop driving, he ignored him (or forgot he had been told), he had had one accident which may have signalled the start of his degeneration but at the time he was undiagnosed. I think it's too easy to call for the government to do something about it, it should be collective responsibility if your relative is not fit to drive, stop them. It won't be easy for you, they will inevitably be unhappy about it but would you rather they killed themselves or worse, perhaps a little kiddie on a zebra crossing? My mother almost killed my step father (seriously) trying the get the car keys off him on many occassions. It is a very difficult thing to do and the thought of losing the "right?" to drive for me seems unthinkable. However, the thought of killing or badly injuring someone because I am incapable of controlling a vehicle safely is even more worrying. My time will come I am pretty sure of that. Anyway, off to do some driving, whilst I still can!
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aizvara
1,524 posts
37 months
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gck303 said: If you don't like old people on the road? Take the train. Simple as that. You still have to get to the train station, presumably. Unless you live there.
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G4HKS
2,485 posts
89 months
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aizvara said: gck303 said: If you don't like old people on the road? Take the train. Simple as that. You still have to get to the train station, presumably. Unless you live there. That is funny!
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ZakTroy
76 posts
17 months
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julian64 said: However IMHO the whole thread is anecdotal rubbish. If you want a sensible discussion about targeting retests for the most appropriate to benefit, you should insist on a re-test for anyone involved in an accident. Doing this would get the tests to the people who really needed them. That's stupid. You're suggesting we wait for people to have accidents before taking any action when these accidents (which could be fatal) could have been prevented. Agreed that some measure may have negative effects on some but on the whole it could save lives.
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cris9964
154 posts
50 months
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ZakTroy said: julian64 said: However IMHO the whole thread is anecdotal rubbish. If you want a sensible discussion about targeting retests for the most appropriate to benefit, you should insist on a re-test for anyone involved in an accident. Doing this would get the tests to the people who really needed them. That's stupid. You're suggesting we wait for people to have accidents before taking any action when these accidents (which could be fatal) could have been prevented. Agreed that some measure may have negative effects on some but on the whole it could save lives. Agree - you cant retest the deceased gent that drove into the M3 and me.....
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dandarez
4,505 posts
153 months
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WCZ said: old people on the road scare the crap out of me, it's an absolute joke just how bad some are at driving, they are such a danger. Well, some 'young people' (as the PC saying goes) scare the s  t out of me too! Not too much though, cos I just press the sport button and leave them wondering where all the bloody stone chippings hitting their screen and bonnet have come from!  (I jest, allegedly!). Just remember, one day you'll be 'old' (IF you're lucky enough to reach whatever you determine 'old' age - looking around me most will be dead from obesity and high drug levels). Keep this sort of legislative process ageism crap against 'oldies' and you younger lot will be lucky to be still driving at 40, let alone 60, 70 and beyond. There are plenty of all 'age' groups who shouldn't be driving. Discrimination on an age basis will work against you in the long run, remember that. Of course you'll get the occasion where the one 90 year old fool is driving up the motorway the wrong way, just the same as you'll get the young idiot stealing a car and driving at high speed (high in the head as well probably) through a built-up area. One will be banned from driving for the rest of his remaining (short) life, and rightly so, the other will spew up crap, get assistance and help, spit defiance at the legal process and thanks to this pc country, more than likely get away with it, then do it again.
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Biker's Nemesis
22,805 posts
78 months
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I'll say it again, it's just another damn tax for drivers.
This country makes me spew.
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julian64
9,879 posts
124 months
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cris9964 said: ZakTroy said: julian64 said: However IMHO the whole thread is anecdotal rubbish. If you want a sensible discussion about targeting retests for the most appropriate to benefit, you should insist on a re-test for anyone involved in an accident. Doing this would get the tests to the people who really needed them. That's stupid. You're suggesting we wait for people to have accidents before taking any action when these accidents (which could be fatal) could have been prevented. Agreed that some measure may have negative effects on some but on the whole it could save lives. Agree - you cant retest the deceased gent that drove into the M3 and me..... Just suggesting something much more likely to be statistically significant than age. Previous accident history. Oh my I think the insurance companies may have twigged that one already. BTW the M3 accident post, was entirely the sort of anecdotal rubbish I was referring to. While I'm not trying to belittle the obvious affect the accident had on your health and wellbeing, the number of posters here who don't understand the difference between statistics and 'I was once hit by an elderly driver so I agree they should be tested' makes this thread the daily mail equivalent of a discussion. I'm off, this threads just a complete waste of posting time.
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doogz
19,290 posts
57 months
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Don't let the door hit you on the way out, old timer 
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GBB
1,652 posts
29 months
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The two scariest trips I've had have been elderly relatives, purely because of their lack of awareness of what was going on around them. I've been a passenger in a car with plenty of idiots but at least their "risks" have been calculated ones where they were aware of all the aspects of the situation.
I was a fully paid up advocate of old people driving until their dying breath until my grandfather took me out years ago. After nearly pulling straight out of a side road into the path of an oncoming artic (doing 40mph, my grandfather only stopped when I shouted I think), he then proceeded to the shops and then parked by reversing into the car behind, then driving into the car in front and settling half way between the two of them. This was in a plastic bumpered Maestro, those who know them can only imagine how smashed up the bumpers were after such treatment every week.
To be fair my Gran was 100% in control of her faculties but she gave up at 90 out of choice.
My Grandfather used to accompany me when I was a learner, he slept for most of his time in the passenger seat.
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PaulMoor
918 posts
33 months
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julian64 said: PaulMoor said: gck303 said: There will come a day when you, and I, are those 'doddering old biddies'. I hope that no one to carry political favour tries to take our right away.
To anyone who is feeling that older drivers should be forcibly removed from the road, I hope that you one day have your license removed for the very excuse you are saying are 'valid reasons'.
If you don't like old people on the road? Take the train. Simple as that. So noone should loose there licence no matter how unsafe they are? Unsafe people should be off the road. Elderly doesn't equal unsafe. Your link quoted earlier is another ill informed opinion. The only link I can find to the statistics regarding driver safety and age, were american crash statistics showing the most likely people to die on the road were the 15-24 age group and the over 75. The theory behind this was the recklessness of the 15-24 age group and the relative frailty of the over 75s. If you want to age assess driving you should start it on the 15-24 and >75. However IMHO the whole thread is anecdotal rubbish. If you want a sensible discussion about targeting retests for the most appropriate to benefit, you should insist on a re-test for anyone involved in an accident. Doing this would get the tests to the people who really needed them. But the artical is not about young drivers. People are not saying young drivers should not be looked at, or that being elderly means you should not have a licence, but that as you get older you are more likely to have accidents due to age related problems and that this is not being addressed. Young people are already targeted time and again, and the danger of older drivers is not looked at at all. People are already looking at young drivers... Oh, and the work by the AIB clearly shows that the over 70s are as likely to cause an accident than the under 30s. Nothing to do with deaths due to being frail: http://www.abi.org.uk/Publications/24940.pdfAIB research dosn't seem like ill informed opinion or anecdotal rubbish to me...
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TwigtheWonderkid
6,321 posts
20 months
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cris9964 said: This is something that is very close to my heart....
December 23rd 2011, I was traveling to one of our offices in Bristol on my motorbike, following an M3 on a dual carriage way.
A 90+ year old gent in a fiesta, went to cross the carriage way (at a crossing point) when the M3 was around two seconds from impact. I missed the first impact between the two cars, but the fiesta was spun toward me and I went in at about 40 mph.
I received a broken shoulder, wrist, 5 ribs, punctured lung, severed ACL within the knee, serious liver laceration, kidney and adrenal gland damage. I'm genuinely sorry to here about this incident but to be harsh, so what? I suspect you could find someone who was walking along the pavement when they were hit by an idiot on a motorcycle! You can't decide legislation on the basis of what happend to you or me or my Autie Elsie. You have to look at the overall picture and the statistics. And that shows beyond doubt that the elderly are not the problem on our roads, the young are!!
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cris9964
154 posts
50 months
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Julian You fired that (slightly condescending) one off and left, but as a point of note; The annecdote, and it was that, was there to offer up the impact that impaired driving from a certain segment of drivers (the segment this post is about) can have on individuals. To personalise it, because this is not just a stats thread.... I fed back that the police investigators in my area have stated that the problem of impaired older driving is getting worse, attending officers being called to more incidents like mine (I hope you would not dismiss this informal feedback arbitrarily) Being in touch with other victims of this type of incident has led me to a belief that the retesting of the elderly is a good thing if it limits incidents like mine occurring more frequently as our population gets older. Should someone produce stats that point to elderly people being a minor and stable or decreasing part of the road incident problem, then I would happily look at them... Chris Bates. julian64 said: cris9964 said: ZakTroy said: julian64 said: However IMHO the whole thread is anecdotal rubbish. If you want a sensible discussion about targeting retests for the most appropriate to benefit, you should insist on a re-test for anyone involved in an accident. Doing this would get the tests to the people who really needed them. That's stupid. You're suggesting we wait for people to have accidents before taking any action when these accidents (which could be fatal) could have been prevented. Agreed that some measure may have negative effects on some but on the whole it could save lives. Agree - you cant retest the deceased gent that drove into the M3 and me..... Just suggesting something much more likely to be statistically significant than age. Previous accident history. Oh my I think the insurance companies may have twigged that one already. BTW the M3 accident post, was entirely the sort of anecdotal rubbish I was referring to. While I'm not trying to belittle the obvious affect the accident had on your health and wellbeing, the number of posters here who don't understand the difference between statistics and 'I was once hit by an elderly driver so I agree they should be tested' makes this thread the daily mail equivalent of a discussion. I'm off, this threads just a complete waste of posting time.
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PaulMoor
918 posts
33 months
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TwigtheWonderkid said: You have to look at the overall picture and the statistics. And that shows beyond doubt that the elderly are not the problem on our roads, the young are!! Oh for... The facts are right above your post... http://www.abi.org.uk/Publications/24940.pdf
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Ozzie Osmond
12,408 posts
116 months
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PaulMoor said: Young people are already targeted time and again, and the danger of older drivers is not looked at at all. People are already looking at young drivers... So, that'll be, - annual re-test for the under 25s
- maximum 50 bhp engine for the under 25s
- no driving after dark for under 25s unless accompanied by someone who's held a full licence for 10 years
- no passengers for under 25s unless accompanied by someone who's held a full licence for 10 years
- dink/drive limit of zero for under 25s
Should just about cover the main areas of death and injury on the roads.
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cris9964
154 posts
50 months
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But the threads not about bikers on pavements. My incident got me closer to people that see this sort of thing everyday... its just a view , but like drink drivers, if you are impaired to the point where you are not safe, you should not be driving... TwigtheWonderkid said: cris9964 said: This is something that is very close to my heart....
December 23rd 2011, I was traveling to one of our offices in Bristol on my motorbike, following an M3 on a dual carriage way.
A 90+ year old gent in a fiesta, went to cross the carriage way (at a crossing point) when the M3 was around two seconds from impact. I missed the first impact between the two cars, but the fiesta was spun toward me and I went in at about 40 mph.
I received a broken shoulder, wrist, 5 ribs, punctured lung, severed ACL within the knee, serious liver laceration, kidney and adrenal gland damage. I'm genuinely sorry to here about this incident but to be harsh, so what? I suspect you could find someone who was walking along the pavement when they were hit by an idiot on a motorcycle! You can't decide legislation on the basis of what happend to you or me or my Autie Elsie. You have to look at the overall picture and the statistics. And that shows beyond doubt that the elderly are not the problem on our roads, the young are!!
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cris9964
154 posts
50 months
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Thanks for that Paul. It's another dimension.... PaulMoor said: TwigtheWonderkid said: You have to look at the overall picture and the statistics. And that shows beyond doubt that the elderly are not the problem on our roads, the young are!! Oh for... The facts are right above your post... http://www.abi.org.uk/Publications/24940.pdf
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PaulMoor
918 posts
33 months
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Ozzie Osmond said: PaulMoor said: Young people are already targeted time and again, and the danger of older drivers is not looked at at all. People are already looking at young drivers... So, that'll be, - annual re-test for the under 25s
- maximum 50 bhp engine for the under 25s
- no driving after dark for under 25s unless accompanied by someone who's held a full licence for 10 years
- no passengers for under 25s unless accompanied by someone who's held a full licence for 10 years
- dink/drive limit of zero for under 25s
Should just about cover the main areas of death and injury on the roads. You joke, but these ideas have been suggested, and at least two of them are likly to come in to force some time soon (passengers and drink/drive), people are pushing for a limit for cars the same as bikes and the other two have been dismissed as impractical.
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